Oltopeteeh
Regular
Vanila Formula for tier of Bows:
But the bows in the game don't live up to that standard!
With rare exceptions of individual, but, alas, intermediate links, which I will mention below.
"Weight" (importance) of damage - 0.2 for each.
"Weight" of accuracy and tension speed - 0.02 per unit.
After all summations, the number 11 is subtracted (a kind of base sum of values).
Bows, crossbows and muskets do not have any exponentiation, with a percentage, as in the formula for melee weapons, only a multiplier (x1 bows, x0.7 for crossbows, 0.5 for muskets, which are not in the original now).
As a result of simple calculations, we can find out that an increase equal to one dash goes for every 5 damage, or 50 (!!!) accuracy, or the speed of drawing a bowstring.
And the weapon speed parameter is generally ignored (and not shown to the player in the viewing interface), although the speed, as it should be, is present in the parameters of small arms, but for some reason is not shown.
I tried making a test bow with a haste rating of a pathetic 1.
There was no significant difference compared to a regular bow.
But the draw speed of 65 is already very different from the standard ~80-90 for other bows. And, not for the better.
In my opinion, -50 speed cannot be compensated for in any way by a negligible increase in 1 damage, as the formula states, but this is not the point here. First, I want to achieve a very simple thing - that the formula declared by the developers really works as it should.
And adjusting its new values is another task, related to game design and personal preferences of individuals, and not fixing a malicious bug in pure programming that spoils the gaming experience of many people, often without even suspecting that "looks" should not be so imbalanced, like it's in the game right now.
A vivid example is the difference in damage between different tiers.
Just evaluate the picture, using the example of short (universal) bows.
Type 1 = 30 damage (training bow).
Type 2 = 45-46 (three standard bows). (+15...16).
Type 3 = 52 (sturge bow) (+6...7).
Type 4 = 56 (composite bow) (+4).
Type 5 = 62 (improved steppe bows, composite and heavy) (+6)
Type 6 = 66 (war bow) (+4)
Type 7 = 80 (noble bow) (+14).
It's not normal, is it? Especially the gap at the beginning and end of the chain: +14...15 versus +4(x2),+6(x2),+7(x1) in the middle of the row.
Normal: +-5 dmg = +- 1 tier.
___
Now more about the stats of bows.
Type 1 (training bow).
According to the formula, this is not even zero, as shown in the interface, but in general "minus the first dash". There is simply nowhere to fall further - the clamp cutoff in the formula will work.
Stats: damage 30, accuracy 99, draw speed 87.
Speed rating - ignore, arrow speed - an insignificant parameter (dodging it is still difficult, but if someone really needs (like me) to know the boundaries, the weighted value is damage + 20, i.e. 60 to 90).
The length of the bow, in fact, does not affect anything much and can be safely ignored. In contrast to the length of melee weapons, where this is a very significant parameter (as well as the haste rating).
Balanced values that correspond exactly to Tier 1:
-- "damage 40, accuracy and tightness by 100" (9+2+2-11=2), or "damage 41, acc 95, speed 95" (same values).
Problems are already visible, but the training bow is not for sale, it is used very limitedly and, in principle, it can be scored. But further - more.
___
T2 (basic)
The multiplayer versions are very different from the singleplayer.
Minus five damage is a whole level difference(!).
Ten speed is one fifth of a level.
___
For comparison, the strongest (aka "noble") bow, which is considered tier 5 (not sixth, which is a little surprising).
By the way, do you know what tier, according to the formula, has a long noble bow?
6? Nope! 11.76(!) level.
Noble_long_bow is tier 11, close to 12 (if you put the numbers honestly, without changing the original formula
).
If it weren't for the cut-off (thereby clamp), which does not allow you to get ("return") a figure higher than 7.5, then the price of a noble onion would be truly astronomical. Like a city or two, with villages, bought with giblets ... Which is quite consistent with the reality of the gloomy Middle Ages and capitalism - what is not for sale is bought =)
Balanced values, for tier 7 (almost maximum, due to cutoff): damage 70, acc and thrust 100.
That is, we get a fairly logical sequence.
1 tier = 40 (training bow)
Tier 2 = 45 (basic for troops), corresponds to the three current shortbows - "hunter, mountain, steppe".
Tier 3 = 50 (improved), corresponds to the "sturge bow" with 52 damage.
4 tier (advanced bow from tier 3 assigned by the developers) = 55, resp. a "combination bow" with 56 damage, obviously a different model, which is only considered a tier 3 due to a misunderstanding. Like the next option.
Tier 5 = 60 (special),steppe combined and heavy steppe, resp. 62 dmg.
6 tier = 65 (top of regular units), steppe military bow, resp. 66 dmg.
Tier 7 = 70 (absolute), noble bow, resp. 80 dmg, missing from units as a class, even tier 7 elite, only lords and heroes can own this treasure).
Damage values are 80 and especially 95... while the maximum tier is 7.5 (because of the cutoff) and with the current formula... I think it's clear what needs to be done with them, right? Luckily, they can be corrected. If you put the mod "Before" the Sandbox, and not "After", as simple mods are used to doing. Resp. the requirement for such a mod is only "native"
======
Table for fast view of problem with bow:
MP_Bow
====
Simple Change all bow for used mp expirience of balance (this more values that only singleplayer).
Formula: -10f instead -11f
Bow: acc 95, spd 125, dmg 28 + tier *5
Code:
return num * ((float)thrustDamage * 0.2f + (float)thrustSpeed * 0.02f + (float)accuracy * 0.02f) - 11f;But the bows in the game don't live up to that standard!
With rare exceptions of individual, but, alas, intermediate links, which I will mention below.
"Weight" (importance) of damage - 0.2 for each.
"Weight" of accuracy and tension speed - 0.02 per unit.
After all summations, the number 11 is subtracted (a kind of base sum of values).
Bows, crossbows and muskets do not have any exponentiation, with a percentage, as in the formula for melee weapons, only a multiplier (x1 bows, x0.7 for crossbows, 0.5 for muskets, which are not in the original now).
As a result of simple calculations, we can find out that an increase equal to one dash goes for every 5 damage, or 50 (!!!) accuracy, or the speed of drawing a bowstring.
And the weapon speed parameter is generally ignored (and not shown to the player in the viewing interface), although the speed, as it should be, is present in the parameters of small arms, but for some reason is not shown.
I tried making a test bow with a haste rating of a pathetic 1.
There was no significant difference compared to a regular bow.
But the draw speed of 65 is already very different from the standard ~80-90 for other bows. And, not for the better.
In my opinion, -50 speed cannot be compensated for in any way by a negligible increase in 1 damage, as the formula states, but this is not the point here. First, I want to achieve a very simple thing - that the formula declared by the developers really works as it should.
And adjusting its new values is another task, related to game design and personal preferences of individuals, and not fixing a malicious bug in pure programming that spoils the gaming experience of many people, often without even suspecting that "looks" should not be so imbalanced, like it's in the game right now.
A vivid example is the difference in damage between different tiers.
Just evaluate the picture, using the example of short (universal) bows.
Type 1 = 30 damage (training bow).
Type 2 = 45-46 (three standard bows). (+15...16).
Type 3 = 52 (sturge bow) (+6...7).
Type 4 = 56 (composite bow) (+4).
Type 5 = 62 (improved steppe bows, composite and heavy) (+6)
Type 6 = 66 (war bow) (+4)
Type 7 = 80 (noble bow) (+14).
It's not normal, is it? Especially the gap at the beginning and end of the chain: +14...15 versus +4(x2),+6(x2),+7(x1) in the middle of the row.
Normal: +-5 dmg = +- 1 tier.
___
Now more about the stats of bows.
Type 1 (training bow).
Code:
thrust_speed="92"
speed_rating="87"
missile_speed="84"
weapon_length="106"
accuracy="99"
thrust_damage="30"According to the formula, this is not even zero, as shown in the interface, but in general "minus the first dash". There is simply nowhere to fall further - the clamp cutoff in the formula will work.
Stats: damage 30, accuracy 99, draw speed 87.
Speed rating - ignore, arrow speed - an insignificant parameter (dodging it is still difficult, but if someone really needs (like me) to know the boundaries, the weighted value is damage + 20, i.e. 60 to 90).
The length of the bow, in fact, does not affect anything much and can be safely ignored. In contrast to the length of melee weapons, where this is a very significant parameter (as well as the haste rating).
| MB2 Name | Cost | (Tier Formula) | Tier (Expect) | Req | Dmg | Acc | Spd |
| training_bow | -1,28 | 1 | 0 | 30 | 99 | 87 | |
| training_longbow | -1,4 | 1 | 0 | 30 | 100 | 80 |
Balanced values that correspond exactly to Tier 1:
-- "damage 40, accuracy and tightness by 100" (9+2+2-11=2), or "damage 41, acc 95, speed 95" (same values).
Problems are already visible, but the training bow is not for sale, it is used very limitedly and, in principle, it can be scored. But further - more.
___
T2 (basic)
Code:
steppe_bow
thrust_speed="65"
accuracy="80"
thrust_damage="46"
mountain_hunting_bow
thrust_speed="70"
accuracy="82"
thrust_damage="46"
mp_mountain_hunting_bow
thrust_speed="120"
accuracy="83"
thrust_damage="40"
hunting_bow
thrust_speed="75"
accuracy="85"
thrust_damage="45"
mp_hunting_bow
thrust_speed="110"
accuracy="80"
thrust_damage="40"
mp_hunting_bow_faster_arrows
thrust_speed="110"
accuracy="89"
thrust_damage="42"
mp_hunting_bow_captain
thrust_speed="110"
accuracy="90"
thrust_damage="38"
mp_fast_hunting_bow
thrust_speed="130"
accuracy="70"
thrust_damage="30"The multiplayer versions are very different from the singleplayer.
Minus five damage is a whole level difference(!).
Ten speed is one fifth of a level.
___
For comparison, the strongest (aka "noble") bow, which is considered tier 5 (not sixth, which is a little surprising).
Code:
noble_bow
thrust_speed="115"
speed_rating="94"
missile_speed="90"
weapon_length="116"
accuracy="100"
thrust_damage="80"
noble_long_bow
thrust_speed="90"
speed_rating="91"
missile_speed="85"
weapon_length="118"
accuracy="98"
thrust_damage="95"By the way, do you know what tier, according to the formula, has a long noble bow?
6? Nope! 11.76(!) level.
Noble_long_bow is tier 11, close to 12 (if you put the numbers honestly, without changing the original formula
).If it weren't for the cut-off (thereby clamp), which does not allow you to get ("return") a figure higher than 7.5, then the price of a noble onion would be truly astronomical. Like a city or two, with villages, bought with giblets ... Which is quite consistent with the reality of the gloomy Middle Ages and capitalism - what is not for sale is bought =)
Balanced values, for tier 7 (almost maximum, due to cutoff): damage 70, acc and thrust 100.
That is, we get a fairly logical sequence.
1 tier = 40 (training bow)
Tier 2 = 45 (basic for troops), corresponds to the three current shortbows - "hunter, mountain, steppe".
Tier 3 = 50 (improved), corresponds to the "sturge bow" with 52 damage.
4 tier (advanced bow from tier 3 assigned by the developers) = 55, resp. a "combination bow" with 56 damage, obviously a different model, which is only considered a tier 3 due to a misunderstanding. Like the next option.
Tier 5 = 60 (special),steppe combined and heavy steppe, resp. 62 dmg.
6 tier = 65 (top of regular units), steppe military bow, resp. 66 dmg.
Tier 7 = 70 (absolute), noble bow, resp. 80 dmg, missing from units as a class, even tier 7 elite, only lords and heroes can own this treasure).
Damage values are 80 and especially 95... while the maximum tier is 7.5 (because of the cutoff) and with the current formula... I think it's clear what needs to be done with them, right? Luckily, they can be corrected. If you put the mod "Before" the Sandbox, and not "After", as simple mods are used to doing. Resp. the requirement for such a mod is only "native"
======
Table for fast view of problem with bow:
| training_bow | 12 | -1,18 | 1 | 0 | 30 | 99 | 92 |
| training_longbow | -1,32 | 1 | 0 | 30 | 100 | 84 | |
| steppe_bow | 281 | 1,1 | 2 | 0 | 46 | 80 | 65 |
| hunting_bow | 314 | 1,2 | 2 | 0 | 45 | 85 | 75 |
| mountain_hunting_bow | 329 | 1,24 | 2 | 0 | 46 | 82 | 70 |
| highland_ranger_bow /2.1 | 1745 | 2,76 | 2l | 15 | 55 | 83 | 55 |
| nordic_shortbow | 1956 | 2,94 | 3 | 30 | 52 | 95 | 82 |
| glen_ranger_bow / Longbow /2.2 | 4690 | 3,66 | 2l | 15 | 60 | 88 | 45 |
| composite_bow / S Short B | 4815 | 3,78 | 3 | 30 | 56 | 93 | 86 |
| lowland_longbow /3.1 | 18789 | 5,04 | 3l | 30 | 65 | 94 | 58 |
| steppe_heavy_bow / HRB | 14758 | 4,82 | 3 | 30 | 62 | 91 | 80 |
| composite_steppe_bow / SRB | 18384 | 5,02 | 3 | 30 | 62 | 94 | 87 |
| tribal_bow /3.2 | 68739 | 6,18 | 3l | 30 | 70 | 94 | 65 |
| nomad_bow /4.4 | 67143 | 6,22 | 4l | 50 | 70 | 91 | 70 |
| lowland_yew_bow /4.5 | 71779 | 6,26 | 4l | 50 | 69 | 94 | 79 |
| steppe_war_bow | 37466 | 5,7 | 4 | 50 | 66 | 95 | 80 |
| woodland_yew_bow /4.1 | 158195 | 7 | 4l | 50 | 73 | 92 | 78 |
| woodland_longbow /4.2 | 261258 | 7,64 | 4l | 50 | 76 | 94 | 78 |
| longbow_recurve_desert_bow / S Tribesman B /4.3 | 261236 | 8,2 | 4l | 50 | 79 | 95 | 75 |
| noble_bow | 261258 | 9,3 | 5 | 70 | 80 | 100 | 115 |
| noble_long_bow | 261258 | 11,76 | 5l | 70 | 95 | 98 | 90 |
MP_Bow
| MB2 Name | (Tier) | Dmg | Acc | Spd |
| mp_fast_hunting_bow | -1 | 30 | 70 | 130 |
| mp_hunting_bow_captain | 0,6 | 38 | 90 | 110 |
| mp_mountain_hunting_bow | 1,06 | 40 | 83 | 120 |
| mp_hunting_bow | 0,8 | 40 | 80 | 110 |
| mp_hunting_bow_faster_arrows | 1,38 | 42 | 89 | 110 |
| mp_nordic_short_bow | 1,5 | 42 | 80 | 125 |
| mp_superior_bow (composite_bow) | 2,36 | 47 | 98 | 100 |
| mp_nomad_bow | 2,3 | 47 | 95 | 100 |
| mp_short_bow | 2,8 | 50 | 90 | 100 |
| mp_fast_short_bow | 3,26 | 50 | 88 | 125 |
| mp_recurve_bow (composite_steppe_bow) | 3,1 | 52 | 95 | 90 |
| mp_recurve_bow_captain | 3,1 | 52 | 96 | 89 |
| mp_imperial_recurve_bow (steppe_heavy_bow) | 3,36 | 53 | 98 | 90 |
| mp_strong_recurve_bow | 5,02 | 61 | 96 | 95 |
| mp_guards_bow (steppe_war_bow) | 5,1 | 63 | 95 | 80 |
====
Simple Change all bow for used mp expirience of balance (this more values that only singleplayer).
Formula: -10f instead -11f
Bow: acc 95, spd 125, dmg 28 + tier *5
| NAME | -10f | Dmg | Acc | Spd |
| training_bow | 1 | 33 | 95 | 125 |
| hunting_bow | 2 | 38 | 95 | 125 |
| nordic_shortbow | 3 | 43 | 95 | 125 |
| composite_bow | 4 | 48 | 95 | 125 |
| steppe_heavy_bow | 5 | 53 | 95 | 125 |
| steppe_war_bow | 6 | 58 | 95 | 125 |
| noble_bow | 7 | 63 | 95 | 125 |
Last edited:
