Bow and arrow damage calculation.

[MagicJuggler]

I always found it somewhat illogical that it is the bow that decides the base damage of a ranged attack, and the arrow provides the bonus. Would it not make more logical sense for the arrow to be the base damage and the bow to be the modifier to it? This way, it would be possible to have different arrow types for different needs as well (e.g. shieldbreaker arrows or blunt arrows or cutting arrows), which could appropriately be used by progressively stronger bows. Does this sound like a valid concern or is it just me?

 

[Ambaryerno]

Blunt arrows? Cutting arrows? When did we jump into Thief: Dark Project?

Are you suggesting there would be so little difference between the striking power of an arrow fired from a little plastic kiddie bow with at most 20lbs draw weight, vs the EXACT same arrow from a full 160-180lb draw longbow that it could be differentiated by a bonus of +1 vs +3-4?

I say no. Base damage SHOULD be determined by the bow in the game, because it IS the bow that determines the power and range.

 

[Swadius 2.0]

Have you heard of arrow heads?

 

[MeestYk]

Have you heard of arrow heads?

All the time and more so with narrow heads.

Although I think accuracy is a priority to this suggestion, it shouldn't be overlooked.

 

[omzdog]

I always found it somewhat illogical that it is the bow that decides the base damage of a ranged attack, and the arrow provides the bonus. Would it not make more logical sense for the arrow to be the base damage and the bow to be the modifier to it? This way, it would be possible to have different arrow types for different needs as well (e.g. shieldbreaker arrows or blunt arrows or cutting arrows), which could appropriately be used by progressively stronger bows. Does this sound like a valid concern or is it just me?

I looked into the calculations of missile hits and it uses the square of the speed of the arrow plus the attack damage of the arrow and bow (bow and arrow?). According to their (taleworld's) math, I think it is necessary for the bow to be the base for damage... or things just go out of wack. idk just some thoughts I put into it.

 

[duracell]

Blunt arrows? Cutting arrows? When did we jump into Thief: Dark Project?

Are you suggesting there would be so little difference between the striking power of an arrow fired from a little plastic kiddie bow with at most 20lbs draw weight, vs the EXACT same arrow from a full 160-180lb draw longbow that it could be differentiated by a bonus of +1 vs +3-4?

I say no. Base damage SHOULD be determined by the bow in the game, because it IS the bow that determines the power and range.

No.

At the moment:
Strong bow 26p damage and normal arrow +1 bonus damage, the bow determinates the type of the attack

What he wants (at least I think this is what he wants):

Normal arrow 1p damage and strong bow +26 bonus damage, changing the two components so this way the arrow determinates the type of the attack and not the bow (the arrow can be cutting/piercing/blunt) and the bow just amplifies that kind of damage, stronger bows amplifies the damage more.

If I remember right something like this was done in the Onin no Ran mod already.

 

[omzdog]

Blunt arrows? Cutting arrows? When did we jump into Thief: Dark Project?

Are you suggesting there would be so little difference between the striking power of an arrow fired from a little plastic kiddie bow with at most 20lbs draw weight, vs the EXACT same arrow from a full 160-180lb draw longbow that it could be differentiated by a bonus of +1 vs +3-4?

I say no. Base damage SHOULD be determined by the bow in the game, because it IS the bow that determines the power and range.

No.

At the moment:
Strong bow 26p damage and normal arrow +1 bonus damage, the bow determinates the type of the attack

What he wants (at least I think this is what he wants):

Normal arrow 1p damage and strong bow +26 bonus damage, changing the two components so this way the arrow determinates the type of the attack and not the bow (the arrow can be cutting/piercing/blunt) and the bow just amplifies that kind of damage, stronger bows amplifies the damage more.

If I remember right something like this was done in the Onin no Ran mod already.

sounds iffy to me. Why would a blunt arrow be made anyway. I don't think that would be historically correct and in terms of fantasy that seems a little weird

 

[duracell]

Actually blunt arrows were used historically for small game hunting, doesnt hurts the pelt/gores the bird to pieces but the real point of this idea is the cutting and piercing damage, at the monment bodkin arrows are the best arrows in the game for everything since there is only piercing damage in archery and the bodkin has the highest damage, with the changes the barbed arrows could be useful against lightly armored foes (high cutting damage) while bodkins could be the prefered choice against heavily armored ones (piercing damage).

 

[The Mercenary]

Actually blunt arrows were used historically for small game hunting, doesnt hurts the pelt/gores the bird to pieces but the real point of this idea is the cutting and piercing damage, at the monment bodkin arrows are the best arrows in the game for everything since there is only piercing damage in archery and the bodkin has the highest damage, with the changes the barbed arrows could be useful against lightly armored foes (high cutting damage) while bodkins could be the prefered choice against heavily armored ones (piercing damage).

I like it. Broadheads for very light armor, bodkins for knights, barbed arrows for....erm.....light armor and horses? and Khergit arrows for....
....
I don't know.

 

[MagicJuggler]

Blunt arrows? Cutting arrows? When did we jump into Thief: Dark Project?

Are you suggesting there would be so little difference between the striking power of an arrow fired from a little plastic kiddie bow with at most 20lbs draw weight, vs the EXACT same arrow from a full 160-180lb draw longbow that it could be differentiated by a bonus of +1 vs +3-4?

I say no. Base damage SHOULD be determined by the bow in the game, because it IS the bow that determines the power and range.

No.

At the moment:
Strong bow 26p damage and normal arrow +1 bonus damage, the bow determinates the type of the attack

What he wants (at least I think this is what he wants):

Normal arrow 1p damage and strong bow +26 bonus damage, changing the two components so this way the arrow determinates the type of the attack and not the bow (the arrow can be cutting/piercing/blunt) and the bow just amplifies that kind of damage, stronger bows amplifies the damage more.

If I remember right something like this was done in the Onin no Ran mod already.

sounds iffy to me. Why would a blunt arrow be made anyway. I don't think that would be historically correct and in terms of fantasy that seems a little weird

http://www.logoi.com/notes/japan/japanese_bow_arrows.html
omzdog understood me correctly, and Onin no Ran would have the right idea as historically the Japanese used a lot of different arrow types, from the "turnip-head arrows" designed to make loud noises as they whistled through the air, to "frog-crotch" arrows designed to cut ropes and flagpoles, to armor-piercers and bowel-rakers. So having the bow determine the strength of the actual arrow would make sense IMO.

 

[Shik]

While I agree that the arrow is not significant enough in M&B, I must argue that the bow also contributes significantly to the power of the shot.

 

[MagicJuggler]

While I agree that the arrow is not significant enough in M&B, I must argue that the bow also contributes significantly to the power of the shot.

It would still contribute significantly. The only thing we're suggesting is that the arrow is used instead of the bow to determine the damage type (blunt, cutting, piercing). So a hunting bow would be +19 to damage and an arrow would do 1 bashing damage base.

 

[Zilberfrid]

It's not bad really, I'd like to change bows to cutting damage apart from some specialized anti-armour arrows (Bodkins, which, consequently, would deal less damage) Broadheads would do nicely against exposed flesh and horses, but not mailed horses or heavily armoured soldiers. Would make the small hunting bows worse, like they were historically

 

[m7feettall]

This is something I have not quite understood.

A. How is the bodkin arrow the best in game (cited earlier in the thread) if the Kerght arrow does the same damage and has more arrows? I assume the weight factor is part of it, but none of it is spelled out.

B. Is there any way to tell the projectile speed from each type of bow or does that vary? I assume for instance that a war bow hitting 25p and a masterwork nomad bow, also hitting 25p but much smaller, would have different ranges and projectile speed. If so, where can one find that?

 

[DamienZharkoff]

well the damage can remain the same, while one slows early in flight then the other? *Shrugs*

but as for cutting arrows.. no.


Thing is the AI has trouble enough realizing that the guy in the big tin suit riding around slaughtering your men is MORE dangerous then that nordic man with an axe 80 yards away doing nothing, the last thing I want to see added is cutting arrows to give the AI more potential that will never be used and in the end just hurt them more.