Borcha & Marnid with Bastard Sword and Sniper Xbow

[Harr-the-Ruskie]

Great combo for these two guys who are often unfairly seen as weaklings by the M&B community.

I tried them in previous games as a horse archer with bow but that took a long time to get them effective. Now that I give them Balanced Bastard Swords as 2-hander and Sniper Xbows, they are killing their fair share of enemies even in the early levels (below Level 15).

They are actually very good with the Xbow.

I invest all weapon points into 2-hander, Xbow weapon points will take care of itself from regular use of archery on 'Hold Position' so don't put waste any points on Xbow. Concentrate on Power Strike for the both of them and also add to Riding (at the moment both are on Riding 4...it does appear to make a noticeable difference to their combat effectiveness on the horse compared to Riding 3).

hey are very good melee fighters too....Just make sure they have enough support from the team.

Last night, I saw Marnid horse getting cut from under him. As soon as he fell, he immediately drew his Bastard Sword, wheeled around and killed the two steppe bandits who were attacking him. In the same engagement, Borcha nailed 3 bandits on horseback not including two that he knocked unconscious with the Spirited Hunter. Both of them are riding Hunters. I haven't try the Spirited Charger.....should be interesting.

 

[malenn]

Marnid and Borcha have beckome better with the latest verisons.
I got them on Horsback with bows and thay havent killed me ore anyone on my side (yet).
The thing with Borcha and Marnid is thay dont always folow orders.

 

[Poil]

Last time I got Borcha he had 5 horse riding skill at start. He zoomed around on the battlefield with his sadlehorse.

 

[Juno]

Best combo is Bastard Sword, Steel Sheild, and a ranged weapon and ammo. They are pretty good in the new versions, much better than i remember in the earlier versions

 

[mfberg]

I pushed Borcha up to 4 weapon master points and it seems he gains new weapons points much faster than Marnid with only 1. Right now in a good battle (Riverpirates or Vaegir Deserters) Borcha will get around +3 weapons points on 4 kills and Marnid will get about +2 on 3 kills.

This time for weapons I am getting them up to War Bows, Bastard Swords, and Steel shields, and soon I will be letting them have horses, but not until they can take care of themselves against dark hunters.

mfberg

 

[Qwertyest]

I think M&B are better if you don't give them a horse! After all, they can't fire the crossbow as accurately if they're moving on a horse.

I've given Borcha a crossbow, bastard sword, and a light shield (no need to give him something as heavy as a steel shield - it'll only slow him down a lil bit more during melee combat, and he'll mainly be firing his crossbow, so it's not likely the shield will ever get broken anyway!)

 

[Narcissus]

I pushed Borcha up to 4 weapon master points and it seems he gains new weapons points much faster than Marnid with only 1. Right now in a good battle (Riverpirates or Vaegir Deserters) Borcha will get around +3 weapons points on 4 kills and Marnid will get about +2 on 3 kills.

Unless my math is off (quite possible since I just woke up) ... there is 1/12 difference between skill gain versus kills between the two that you just listed. That isn't exactly what I would call much faster.

Narcissus

 

[Morbo]

Huh, so Borcha and Marnid can have a use too eh? Well that's news to me!

Hmmm maybe I should try some of these suggestions myself, as so far I've been using the both of 'em as cannon fodder. I just sent them in first at the start of a battle and let them draw some enemies while I stay back and pick things off with my bow.

 

[mfberg]

Unless my math is off (quite possible since I just woke up) ... there is 1/12 difference between skill gain versus kills between the two that you just listed. That isn't exactly what I would call much faster.

Your math is correct, however Borcha kills off more men, so the difference is substantial. If they were killing off the same number of men it would not be as noticeable. I don't have enough numbers to give me an idea of what weapon mastery does, I might have to make the two identical except for weapon mastery and take each of them bandit hunting as a test.

mfberg

 

[Narcissus]

I apologize for that post ... I was half-asleep when I wrote it. No offense intended.

/hijacking

Narcissus

 

[Tarrak]

I have noticed them becoming better too.

I have the conventional Marnid-knight, Borcha-horse archer style for them. Now Borcha actually kills a few enemies before getting cornered, and Marnid rips the enemies to shreds when he charges in. I have seen him take on two Dark Knights and actually kill one and hold the other off for a good while.

I have no idea how you have the money to buy balanced Bastards for both, or have the chance to buy them. I have only just managed to get a chipped Bastard for myself (Marnid has Broadsword, good for knightaction hehe, and Borcha has a swift Saber). And Hunters an Coursers... I only had a Heavy Courser myself (lost it sadly), and I'm level 18.

But even back when they sucked they had a function. Borcha did his usual and charged off. That usually held off part of the enemy force, if I was lucky it was the infantry. That left enough time to deal with the cavalry or advanced force easily. He was a great speedbump. Marnid was just another good fighter to have at your back waiting for the enemy.

 

[mfberg]

When I want to make Marnid and Borcha into good killers they get the first choice of equipment, I make do with the scraps, (and a darn fast horse). In my last game I still had all my squire starting equipment except for a regular crossbow and skullcap, while they were running around with snipers crossbows, decent shields, one had a regular scim while I had purchased a balance bastard sword for the other.

mfberg

 

[fanboy]

maybe i'm weird, but i've given M&B the distinct designation of "Party Skill" holders. I leave them to level up those sections while i focus on becoming as good a fighter as i can.

 

[EbonKnight]

Excatly fanboy...I don't get this whole idea of making them good fighters - thats what swadian knights are for Instead...I split them evenly between tactics/pathfinding and surgery/wound treatment making sure the party moves as fast as possible on the battlefield and has minimal casualties if someone does bite the bullet.

 

[svart]

Excatly fanboy...I don't get this whole idea of making them good fighters - thats what swadian knights are for Instead...I split them evenly between tactics/pathfinding and surgery/wound treatment making sure the party moves as fast as possible on the battlefield and has minimal casualties if someone does bite the bullet.

Heh sounds like you missed one big thing.
The real exp comes from killing foes in battle, so if your M&B don't kill a single enemy (and i assume yours die pretty fast) they will level up very slowly.
If you invest a few levels in their combat skills they will improve more by themselves (since they won't die as much) and use those weapon skill points you don't really use.
The levels you spend on their combat effeciency won't only pay off by gaining more levels, but it will also help them from getting stuck at levels 25+.

I used Marnid and Borcha as jousting lancers, which ramped up my slaves per battle. (i was actually surprised since they used to really suck at battle)
giving them bows seems a bit far fetched to me, since it requires a lot of skill points (horse archery, power draw, weapon master) to be effecient at. with jousting lances they just need weapon master, riding and power strike.

And btw, they (don't) follow commands just like everyone else - when a trooper locks on a target he engages it and ignores commands. in the current command complexity there isn't any other choice.

 

[barbaros]

And btw, they (don't) follow commands just like everyone else - when a trooper locks on a target he engages it and ignores commands. in the current command complexity there isn't any other choice.

I remember using "follow me" command succesfully to make my troops disengage the enemy. But its not guaranteed and takes some time before they disengage and come to you.

I have a question. If I give M&B ranged and melee weapons, can they switch between weapons in a logical way?. In 0.632 I have given jarids and sword to Borcha. He shooted jarids first and when ammo depleted he didn't use his sword, just looked around stupidly (he could use this sword if I remove his jarids)

 

[Tarrak]

They can even switch when they feel like it.

I have seen my Borcha whip out his sword and shield when a good target presented itself for a nice sweep. And he is armed with a bow primarely.

So now I have given Marnid some Jarids, and he does use them pretty well.