Bootstraping (starting game).

[sher]

What counters?  Do you suggest that if I take a few sacrificial peasants I will get more of everything?  More of anything?  Seriously, I'm just asking.

Widespread missile weapons and elite combatants instead of bunch of losers you have in native. Peasants will not help you but decent soldiers will give you more time to act without taking all enemy attention.

How about morale?  How it's supposed to be balanced?

You have no problems with morale early at all, you "see" an issue here only because you're eager to blame something for your failures no matter how irrelevant it will look. Very amusing, actually, feel free to continue

And then you tell me that Native is worse?

Warband native is a disgrace. They had good native module in original M&B and they did THIS in Warband. Most probably they just have focused all their efforts on multiplayer and gave too little to single.

And you don't need to see those weird "Speed bonus +200%.  You delivered 0 damage" or "Head shot!  You delivered 0 damage." messages.

You need to learn how to play instead of "virtual dickwinking and bragging" because right now frankly you obviously suck at this game. It is already pretty ridiculous to "speedrun" pure sandbox game since such games are designed to give player wide variety of unpredictable content and you're eager to trade all of it for what? Some people do speedruns of games they know well for amusement and to show audience surprising shortcuts - it's fine if executed well but you want to "speedrun" game you don't know... What are you trying to accomplish by grabbing weakest bow without skills and whining that you cannot kick ass with lamest horse archer build (although it's doubtful that you've bothered with build at all)? I mean, besides making readers smirk or laugh? And attacking Snake Cultists for fame and fortune... Wow.

 

[Lord Irontoe]

I've never noticed the morale system to work any differently than it does in Native. I always get normal amounts in the battles I fight. Morale's not really even an issue until you're fielding larger armies anyway. Maybe your party of 1 was already at maximum morale and that's why you only got 2 points. It's not like it matters that early in the game

Unless you're thinking of Renown, in which case you got only 2 because you beat a very weak enemy.

 

[sher]

Maybe your party of 1 was already at maximum morale and that's why you only got 2 points.

Of course it was which makes things even more funnier

 

[bakters]

I've never noticed the morale system to work any differently than it does in Native. I always get normal amounts in the battles I fight. Morale's not really even an issue until you're fielding larger armies anyway. Maybe your party of 1 was already at maximum morale and that's why you only got 2 points. It's not like it matters that early in the game

Unless you're thinking of Renown, in which case you got only 2 because you beat a very weak enemy.

  Oh, of course!  Well, everything was less then expected, so it caught me off guard.  Thank you.  The starting value must be quite high if I maxed it so early.

Why I care for morale so much.  Usually I didn't put any points in CHA, so low Leadership, 3 with a book.  Morale management was important, especially after taking some hits for one reason or another.  Basically, I relied on Recent Events bonus for most of it.  With that removed, I would have to focus more on CHA early on, which is slow.

Wow.

  Pleasure to meet such a nice person.  Thank you for your deep psychological analysis of my humble person.  It helps immensely!

Now let me answer some of your concerns.
1. Why speedrun a sandbox game at all.
    This one is easy.  I simply wanted a challenge.  I played Warband several times and started doing various voluntary challenges.  It didn't really work, because all they did was to slow down my progress, but the end result was the same.  It just happened later.
    So I decided to try and race for time, and that was just marvelous.  Suddenly I had a very difficult game on my hands.  From the very beginning till the very end I was playing exactly at the limit of my skills. 

2.  Warband Native a failure.
    Yes, I agree that it has issues.  Mostly late-game related.  Diplomacy mod fixes most of them.  For me personally Warband 1.143 and Diplomacy 4.2 is the best Singleplayer experience you can have in this game.  It just gets old after a few years.

3.  "Elite" combatants in Pendor.
    All I've seen so far are bots equally dumb as in Native.  They miss just as consistently, they do the same mistakes, the only advantage they have is better kit, which negates damage.  You can't rely on interrupting their action with a hit, so you must stay at a distance.  It results in a very repetitive and gamey strategy. 
    As far as I can tell, you could achieve the same results in Native if your character used tournament equipment.  No armor to speak of and practice weapons.  Easy to do with Item finder.  The only difference would be capturing enemies with blunt damage.

4.  Balance.
    I didn't really comment on it as of yet, but let me just point to two issues, namely shields and horses.  Shields in Native are OP and artificial.  You can shoot the bot from point blank range exactly in his left eye, and the arrow somehow lands elsewhere.  That's immersion-breaking at the very least.  Shields in Pendor exaggerate this issue due to higher shield skill.
    Then horses.  Horses in Native are tanks.  Horses in Pendor are heavy tanks.  Slower and less maneuverable but they have much better armor and charge damage.  Running a Looter over in Native deals 4 damage, shooting a Looter with anything deals 30 damage.  In Pendor it's the other way around.  Even with my starting Spirited Courser.

Is it right or wrong?  I don't know, really.  Mods with very fragile horses look stupid too, and it's very easy to exploit them.  I would say that Native is about right, but Diplomacy does a better job overall, because horses slow down when wounded.  This results in horses which can't tank damage, yet they don't die if you sneeze in their general direction too.

 

[sher]

Is it right or wrong?  I don't know, really.

Well, at least you know something for sure. This can be a start. Or not.

 

[noosers]

Try to run over a Vanskerry Jarl with your Spirited Courser and learn another thing or two about Pendor.

Take your time and explore the game and keep your judgements till you can reason and wage them correctly. Fighting a wee tiny bunch of SNC´s which are very susceptile to archery due to a lack of shields is one thing, facing a hardended batch of infantry armed with shields, arrows, throwing weapons and huge axes as a solo horse archer on a courser is another one.

After all, you´re the one exploiting the lousy game AI - running circles around your opposition on a fast horse and greedily resupplying yourself with arrows from your chest, means doing the most profitable and easiest and thus lamest approach of all and then complain about miserable loot without understanding the game mechanics behind it - or even bothering to look it up.

But as it´s a single game it´s totally your concern how you play it. Just get into your brain that you´re new to Pendor and have to learn the tricks and treats if you want to play it - instead of doing a native run which you know blindly.

So if you feel unchallenged, either switch your approach and play a say melee/throwing character or continue with your horse archer and start fullfilling Madigans Prophecy properly. Reading the ingame notes and stickified links here on this board may help you even further.

 

[bakters]

Try to run over a Vanskerry Jarl with your Spirited Courser and learn another thing or two about Pendor.

Take your time and explore the game and keep your judgements till you can reason and wage them correctly. Fighting a wee tiny bunch of SNC´s which are very susceptile to archery due to a lack of shields is one thing, facing a hardended batch of infantry armed with shields, arrows, throwing weapons and huge axes as a solo horse archer on a courser is another one.

After all, you´re the one exploiting the lousy game AI - running circles around your opposition on a fast horse and greedily resupplying yourself with arrows from your chest, means doing the most profitable and easiest and thus lamest approach of all and then complain about miserable loot without understanding the game mechanics behind it - or even bothering to look it up.

But as it´s a single game it´s totally your concern how you play it. Just get into your brain that you´re new to Pendor and have to learn the tricks and treats if you want to play it - instead of doing a native run which you know blindly.

So if you feel unchallenged, either switch your approach and play a say melee/throwing character or continue with your horse archer and start fullfilling Madigans Prophecy properly. Reading the ingame notes and stickified links here on this board may help you even further.

I do not feel unchallenged.  I feel "cheated".  The fights are easy, until you try to damage your opponents.  Then they do not become difficult.  They become futile (or really long and frustrating at the very least).

Yes, I read and I search.  Yes, I'm a beginner.  I wrote that I don't know this game several times already, I believe.  I was not joking.  I meant it.

 

[sher]

The fights are easy, until you try to damage your opponents.

Life is hard. Or something.

 

[bakters]

The fights are easy, until you try to damage your opponents.

Life is hard. Or something.

Depends how you define hard.  It's not hard to avoid this enemy.  Not at all.  It would be hard to win, if I loaded myself with bolts.  But I didn't, so it's easy.

 

[heckani]

Baksters, whats your point? Sher is right about you seem to cry alot and whine about this. If you dont want to see "0 damage" get some skills as in PD, aim for the head (you only get 0 damage from netherworld when you´re low level). Ive done what you´re doing now. ALOT. Dont come saying its boring and this and that, if you think its boring. Stop. Lots of people have done it, it can be tedious but fun. Ive plenty of times destroyed armies, only to suddenly realise i wasn´t looking where i was going and hit a tree. boom After killing 50+ knights you´re dead and lose everything. Thats pendor for you.

Theres no need for us to disprove you - you seem to know NOTHING about this mod, nor have you played it very long. Go on google -you´ll find plenty of people like you who complain about whats so special about pop blah blah blah. And all of these people suck and get their ass kicked. You act exactly like they do.

Either play the mod and enjoy it, get your ass kicked over and over, and you´ll MOST LIKELY end up loving pop. I didnt like pop at all when i tried it my first times. It was a **** mod, and bull**** easy boring, and you kept being taken prisoner over and over.

Now i love the mod, the best mod ive ever tried. Its not going to fix the native ai - NO MOD is going to do that, not more than formations like in floris.

What exactly is it you´re asking about now? You keep talking like "its easy" its this and that.
Tell you what.

Go to the forest near the city Laria -- go fight the green noldor guys. Come back and tell me its easy and boring and you can easily win. Do that. Or just man up and stop acting like a tough nut like everything is easy, nobody cares - and everybody whos won in pop knows the struggle and how hard it is on the highest difficulty and how great and balanced pop truly is.

i.e making your own CKO is coolest thing in the world.

Also just to go on point about you and sher whos talking about damage? You´re just doing it wrong baksters - plain and simple. You complain about doing 0 damage? You must have made BAD starting choices. If you did it properly and put points into strength and PD, you´d be able to always do damage, as long as you don´t go for the horses you´ll be fine. When you reach 4 in PD (you can do that in starting choices) you´re golden. So this 0 damage is either you not headshotting, or you not having put points into PD. This isn´t native as Sher said.

But right now you´re just talking about things being easy or this and that - like ehhh whats the point? Nobody cares plus you haven´t done anything. You defeated 20 snakes, while other people have killed thousands of them. So not impressed.

All I can say is go fight the noldor - then come back and say how easy and good you are. And if pop is boring and you think what im saying is bs and you want us to argue - then no. Just uninstall the mod and go back to native. I really do not get what you´re trying to accomplish right now, except for your speedrun not going well or something. If you got questions we can help you. But if you just talk like an ass like all those who completly suck at pop, then why bother?

I know this might come off as very aggresive to you, which is not meant like this. I´m just merely stating some facts, and asking you what exactly you´re wanting pop to do, as its a mod, not a new game and wont change ai. And yeah tougher gear + much higher levels does make it harder. 0 damage is a *****. But thats whats so great when you finally in the end game slaughter horses that you did 0 damage to in one shot.

In pop you just really need to learn to get your ass kicked alot, before you´ll be the god of pendor.

 

[heckani]

Try to run over a Vanskerry Jarl with your Spirited Courser and learn another thing or two about Pendor.

Take your time and explore the game and keep your judgements till you can reason and wage them correctly. Fighting a wee tiny bunch of SNC´s which are very susceptile to archery due to a lack of shields is one thing, facing a hardended batch of infantry armed with shields, arrows, throwing weapons and huge axes as a solo horse archer on a courser is another one.

After all, you´re the one exploiting the lousy game AI - running circles around your opposition on a fast horse and greedily resupplying yourself with arrows from your chest, means doing the most profitable and easiest and thus lamest approach of all and then complain about miserable loot without understanding the game mechanics behind it - or even bothering to look it up.

But as it´s a single game it´s totally your concern how you play it. Just get into your brain that you´re new to Pendor and have to learn the tricks and treats if you want to play it - instead of doing a native run which you know blindly.

So if you feel unchallenged, either switch your approach and play a say melee/throwing character or continue with your horse archer and start fullfilling Madigans Prophecy properly. Reading the ingame notes and stickified links here on this board may help you even further.

I do not feel unchallenged.  I feel "cheated".  The fights are easy, until you try to damage your opponents.  Then they do not become difficult.  They become futile (or really long and frustrating at the very least).

Yes, I read and I search.  Yes, I'm a beginner.  I wrote that I don't know this game several times already, I believe.  I was not joking.  I meant it.

You talk about fights being easy aswell -- that you feel cheated???? the fights are easy until you try and damage your opponents

1) Read my post. Get PD. in the starting choices. Then its a piece of cake. The fights are not futile or really long and frustrating. You just haven´t adjusted your strategy accordingly. Dont tell me im wrong. This can be done in the starting choices, by choosing the step road, and getting some PD + riding to 3/4. And the composite bow. Ive felt your pain - i adjusted my strategy and it worked.  If you dont want to be an archer, then its even easier of course.

2) If you think its easy avoiding the enemy like you´re some godlike speedrunner who can outrun everything -- go to the noldor. Their arrows will hit you or kill your horse and steamroll you. You can be level 60 and still get f***** by these guys. I know you´re new to the game, so try that, you´ll see how deadly some enemies in pendor are.

The truth in pendor is - some enemies you need to avoid until a certain level - i think this is your big mistake, as long as you stay away from certain enemies you´ll be fine and it´ll be like native with outcasts = looters.

Anyway I get your frustration, and i felt that too, Sher probably did too we all did --- this is something thats a love/hate thing about pop until you reach that level. But stick through it and you´ll really like pop. If you´re 100% fixed on speedrunning this - welll sometimes even a speedrun might take hours The beginning is just a grind, take it or leave it.

Just trying to say the truth cold and hard to you. Its not the mod´s fault.

If you get offended or think this is all bs - its okay. But try and avoid some enmies and go visit the noldors at least, you wont regret it. 

 

[bakters]

You talk about fights being easy aswell -- that you feel cheated???? the fights are easy until you try and damage your opponents

1) Read my post. Get PD. in the starting choices. Then its a piece of cake. The fights are not futile or really long and frustrating. You just haven´t adjusted your strategy accordingly. Dont tell me im wrong. This can be done in the starting choices, by choosing the step road, and getting some PD + riding to 3/4. And the composite bow. Ive felt your pain - i adjusted my strategy and it worked.  If you dont want to be an archer, then its even easier of course.

2) If you think its easy avoiding the enemy like you´re some godlike speedrunner who can outrun everything -- go to the noldor. Their arrows will hit you or kill your horse and steamroll you. You can be level 60 and still get f***** by these guys. I know you´re new to the game, so try that, you´ll see how deadly some enemies in pendor are.

The truth in pendor is - some enemies you need to avoid until a certain level - i think this is your big mistake, as long as you stay away from certain enemies you´ll be fine and it´ll be like native with outcasts = looters.

Anyway I get your frustration, and i felt that too, Sher probably did too we all did --- this is something thats a love/hate thing about pop until you reach that level. But stick through it and you´ll really like pop. If you´re 100% fixed on speedrunning this - welll sometimes even a speedrun might take hours The beginning is just a grind, take it or leave it.

Just trying to say the truth cold and hard to you. Its not the mod´s fault.

If you get offended or think this is all bs - its okay. But try and avoid some enmies and go visit the noldors at least, you wont regret it. 

I think I did what you suggested.  Maybe not very well, but I did it.  It's still veeery grindish.  Like, I mean, really.  I probably should even be glad for the progress I made.  I'm lvl 7 with decent early kit and just few days in-game.

So it's not really that I don't make any progress.  I do, all things considered.  The question is, do I like it?  And the answer is no, but I'll give it a shot for some more time.

 

[sher]

Sher probably did too

I didn't actually. I like challenge and do not jump to conclusions trying to figure out what I am doing wrong first of all. It was pretty obvious right from the start that with so many shooters "cheese" will not be here, not in the usual form at least - you still can dominate melee fighters with shorter weapons as long as your horse is still active and you know how to use lance properly, most suckers don't since it's not really needed in Native or similar modules. And I had my part of amazement and feeling of extreme vulnerability facing melee fighters with very high pros and skills in Native Expansion for original M&B (superb mod it was). So mostly what I had to get used to were the changed sounds of combat - it was kinda brutal and emotional and took time to acclimate (I'm heavily affected by music and sounds in general). Oh, and how lords will be determined to crush independent king - very different and surprising in a good way. And noldors are bloody maniacs but they're totally fine - just super elite. Nice one time surprises.

Overall I do not consider PoP a very hard mod - it's very logical and balanced. It may be hard as a first experience of M&B itself when you do not know at all how to control your character in combat and have to learn controls and basics, but for adequate human being who played M&B before it's only a question of accepting that all native cheese will not be there. There is a warning that it was made by experienced players for greater challenge - obviously such people should be aware of obvious exploits and would try to counter them.

 

[bakters]

for adequate human being who played M&B before it's only a question of accepting that all native cheese will not be there.

  That was the premise, obviously.  Let's remove Native cheese, so there will be no cheese at all.  But the result is the almost exact opposite.

In Native I did all my grind with melee weapons.  Only the absolute necessity with crossbow, to get some profs, the rest mostly with blunt lance and Iron Mace.  Here?  I don't think so.  So no cheese?  Sure.  Kiting a mob and tricking them to lower their shields one way or the other so I can shoot is not cheese, is it?  Running over shooters as they reload or try to switch weapons is not cheese, is it?  Turtling behind two shields, good armor and riding a tank is not cheese, oh no.  Riding a Courser in light armor is, obviously, because it's a Native thing.  How about joining a random battle and taking an expensive prisoner?  Not cheesy!  How about lancing a bunch of preoccupied bots just because it takes so much skill? And let's not talk about autocalc, shall we?

You can't get rid of cheese.  You can counter one cheesy strategy or the other, but there will always be a way for the player to abuse dumb bots.

And I'm done with this PoS.

 

[sher]

I don't think so.

You think too much and wrong all the time. I've directly mentioned lance in that same post - you've missed it entirely and continued to speak with voices in your own head. Hopeless.

And I'm done with this PoS.

Rivers of tears and stuff.

 

[heckani]

Try to run over a Vanskerry Jarl with your Spirited Courser and learn another thing or two about Pendor.

Take your time and explore the game and keep your judgements till you can reason and wage them correctly. Fighting a wee tiny bunch of SNC´s which are very susceptile to archery due to a lack of shields is one thing, facing a hardended batch of infantry armed with shields, arrows, throwing weapons and huge axes as a solo horse archer on a courser is another one.

After all, you´re the one exploiting the lousy game AI - running circles around your opposition on a fast horse and greedily resupplying yourself with arrows from your chest, means doing the most profitable and easiest and thus lamest approach of all and then complain about miserable loot without understanding the game mechanics behind it - or even bothering to look it up.

But as it´s a single game it´s totally your concern how you play it. Just get into your brain that you´re new to Pendor and have to learn the tricks and treats if you want to play it - instead of doing a native run which you know blindly.

So if you feel unchallenged, either switch your approach and play a say melee/throwing character or continue with your horse archer and start fullfilling Madigans Prophecy properly. Reading the ingame notes and stickified links here on this board may help you even further.

Gotta love noosers brutal honesty and aggresion. The voice of truth  Big respect! 

Are you done with playing PoP baksters? You can always lower the difficulty to easiest 

 

[bakters]

Yes, I'm done with it.  Difficulty setting is not a problem.  I was rarely hit at all.  I could count it if I bothered.  Just not my thing. 

 

[makedonce]

1. I always start my toon with killing Noldor from day one untill i get a decent horse and bow from them. How i kill Noldor on level one? Thats the right question.
2.Trade skill is best to have at begining.Buy Flax Bundle from Javiksholm and sell in Avendor.Buy Iron from Senderfall and sell in Rane and Ravenstein.Buy salt from Torbah and sell whatever.Buy Oil from Laria and sell whatever.Buy Ale from Sarleon and sell whatever.Buy wine and Olives from Ethos and sell whatever.
3.Most important as an archer in Pendor is Encumbrance.You need to find lightest armor and fastest horse.Noldor horse and Dread Legion armor.Riding skill at 4 is enough to outrun everyone on the map with the gear above.The more lighter you are the more enemy will miss you.
4.Persuasion is important about the guys that sell information for 10 denars in taverns.Min 5 is enough to be able to obtain hidden treasure map every week while you travel from city to city trading and buying velvet enterprises.
5.And yeah i play on hardest dificulty and kill the Noldor max 20 on lvl 1. How i do that? Thats the right question.

 

[Lord Irontoe]

5.And yeah i play on hardest dificulty and kill the Noldor max 20 on lvl 1. How i do that? Thats the right question.

I'd guess that you hire as many mercs as you can fit in your party and autocalc them to death

 

[makedonce]

Solo the Noldor  max 20 party on day one lvl one baby.