Blocking Mechanics and a few ideas for Bannerlord, curious about your opinions!

[pango]

These are all my thoughts, not sure how you will all react but here it goes;

1) You shouldn't be able to block every weapon with your one handed sword. For example, just like in real life, a one handed sword cannot stop a 2handed great axe that's swinging or a 2 handed Iron Mace for that matter since their weight just outmatches a mere one handed sword and their kinetic energy at a full swing is too much for a sword to actually stop them, real world physics. These type of weapons should have the same effect of a sledgehammer has in game, when used against one handed weapons. They should be able to crush blocks.

2) (This one may actually effect the game balance very much, but nevertheless a thought) Spears in game should have a health bar similar to shields. Since their main body is made out of wood, it shouldn't really endure a hit from an axe many times. It must break off after some time, and to counter that they should maybe be way more faster than they are in Warband because they are not heavy at all and pretty mobile in real life.

3) Strength should be in play while blocking, or something like stamina should be introduced because; for example a Swadian recruit shouldn't be able block an attack from a Nord Huscarl because unsurprisingly a Huscarl is much more powerful than a recruit. Again a chance of sledgehammer effect should be in place if the strength levels are too far apart from each other

4) Army compositions
Going into party screen and upgrading all the soldiers one by one is a pain in the a** (yeah i know about ctrl+left mouse click, but that's not what i mean) For example: You should be able to decide how many Swadian Knights you want in your army beforehand and then your soldiers should upgrade automatically until that limit is reached. If a have a party size of 100, I should be able to divide them like I want 50 Knight/30 Sharpshooter/20 Sergeant, and prioritize them according to my needs so when I have new soldiers they should automatically upgrade themselves to desired class until the quota is reached. Something like this should be implemented.

5)Enemies trying to flee while they have zero chance of actually making it is always ridiculous to me, so there has to be a 'surrendering' animation sometimes where they drop their weapons and get on their knees once the battle is over. It shouldn't happen always, but sometimes.

And that's all. Let me know what you think.

 

[NPC99]

1. Warband flagged appropriate weapons to crush through blocks. Why wouldn’t Bannerlord?

2. Not for me. Most blocks with an axe use the haft or the flat of its axehead.

3. In Warband troops had to qualify with sufficient strength to wield a particular weapon. I’d expect the same in Bannerlord. If a warrior is strong enough to wield a weapon they should be able to use it effectively.

4. Not for me - I don’t play in such a one dimensional fashion. BTW there aren’t any Swadian Knights in Bannerlord.

5. I certainly agree that the balance of casualties in M&B games is too extreme. However, I’d prefer that to be fixed by better morale checks, resulting in earlier routing of armies which have already lost the battle.

 

[pango]

1. Warband flagged appropriate weapons to crush through blocks. Why wouldn’t Bannerlord?

2. Not for me. Most blocks with an axe use the haft or the flat of its axehead.

3. In Warband troops had to qualify with sufficient strength to wield a particular weapon. I’d expect the same in Bannerlord. If a warrior is strong enough to wield a weapon they should be able to use it effectively.

4. Not for me - I don’t play in such a one dimensional fashion. BTW there aren’t any Swadian Knights in Bannerlord.

5. I certainly agree that the balance of casualties in M&B games is too extreme. However, I’d prefer that to be fixed by better morale checks, resulting in earlier routing of armies which have already lost the battle.

Referring to 2, I am not talking about about axes, I am talking about spears. I think you misunderstood that part. Spears should be destructible after blocking certain amount of hits from an axe-like weapon just like shields since spears -except their heads which have no job in blocking- are completely made out of wood, that is my point.

Referring to point 4, I think everyone would benefit from this because as you reach towards mid-game or end-game in campaign, you may no longer want to micro manage your army and want it done automatically. BTW I know Swadian Knights are not in Bannerlord, I just used them as an example, jeez.

 

[vota dc]

They just need to tie parry speed with weapon proficiency. Not only you strike faster with high proficiency but also you parry faster.

 

[John the Roleplayer]

2. Well-made spear shafts don't break that easily. Try it with a hatchet and a broom handle, and that's still easier. In combat the spear would be knocked aside when hit with a weapon, not cut into.

4. Maybe it would be convenient for some, but you'd often want more detailed control of your party, for instance cavalry that consists of some horse-archers and some lancers.

5. Alternatives to killing every last enemy would be welcome indeed. As NPC99 said, enemies should rout much sooner, and some might also surrender. That's a good idea.

 

[DanAngleland]

2. Well-made spear shafts don't break that easily. Try it with a hatchet and a broom handle, and that's still easier. In combat the spear would be knocked aside when hit with a weapon, not cut into.

It depends how you block with it- it might not break with a single strike, but if you meet the incoming attack at close to a perpendicular angle then the axe/sword blade will bite into the shaft a bit, and weaken it. Further attacks might then stand a chance of snapping the spear. Of course, one should try and deflect incoming attacks to redirect the force into the space around your body rather than trying to absorb it all with your weapon, but the problem for someone using two hands on a spear/axe/other shafted weapon is that there is a risk of the enemy's blade striking your hands and taking them off. This for me seems the more likely and immediate disadvantage to using a wooden shafted weapon to block against incoming attacks, and I would appreciate some representation of this vulnerability to be in the game. It always seemed very daft and frustrating to me that people could block your weapon with the same effectiveness whether they were using a sword, spear or even small random objects that were modded to be used as a melee weapon in some Warband multiplayer servers.

 

[John the Roleplayer]

2. Well-made spear shafts don't break that easily. Try it with a hatchet and a broom handle, and that's still easier. In combat the spear would be knocked aside when hit with a weapon, not cut into.

It depends how you block with it- it might not break with a single strike, but if you meet the incoming attack at close to a perpendicular angle then the axe/sword blade will bite into the shaft a bit, and weaken it. Further attacks might then stand a chance of snapping the spear. Of course, one should try and deflect incoming attacks to redirect the force into the space around your body rather than trying to absorb it all with your weapon, but the problem for someone using two hands on a spear/axe/other shafted weapon is that there is a risk of the enemy's blade striking your hands and taking them off. This for me seems the more likely and immediate disadvantage to using a wooden shafted weapon to block against incoming attacks, and I would appreciate some representation of this vulnerability to be in the game. It always seemed very daft and frustrating to me that people could block your weapon with the same effectiveness whether they were using a sword, spear or even small random objects that were modded to be used as a melee weapon in some Warband multiplayer servers.

If you block while holding the spear fast, as in the Warband upwards block animation, yes okay, it would probably break after a while. I consider the block system to be an abstraction that stands in for blocks and deflections, so I think it's alright if breaking weapons isn't featured. As you say, some weapons should be able to deflect/block better than others, but it might get very complicated if this was properly introduced.

 

[nGabor]

1,2,3:

Please take in consideration, that Mount and Blade is not trying to depict real melee fight, it is a very simplified system - which is not realistic but it is simple and easy to read and it is working. (Honestly I was hoping for some changes in this system). In a real fight you don't block, you try to deflect the attack, even with shields. With deflecting, you dont have to deal with the full force of the attack, and in some cases you can use it to your own advantage.

Take a look at this video: https://youtu.be/SP9PyedudYk?t=3662
and this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GoQlvc_H3s

4: I'm not really into it...

5: I really hope this will be implemented in bannerlord.

 

[Honved]

Blocking a two handed axe of sword with your one-handed weapon should still be PARTIALLY effective, possibly halving the damage, given roughly equal strength of the two contestants.  It might even be sufficient to reduce the attack to the point where it can't penetrate heavy armor, or deflect it to the point where it misses.  It's not a simplistic situation in reality, so a crude solution such as not being able to block the attack would be highly unrealistic, and not a lot of fun either (except possibly for the two-handed weapon wielder).

 

[BayBear]

Where is Lolbash when you need him?

 

[Orion]

4) Army compositions
Going into party screen and upgrading all the soldiers one by one is a pain in the a** (yeah i know about ctrl+left mouse click, but that's not what i mean) For example: You should be able to decide how many Swadian Knights you want in your army beforehand and then your soldiers should upgrade automatically until that limit is reached. If a have a party size of 100, I should be able to divide them like I want 50 Knight/30 Sharpshooter/20 Sergeant, and prioritize them according to my needs so when I have new soldiers they should automatically upgrade themselves to desired class until the quota is reached. Something like this should be implemented.

This is a sound idea, and exists in other games where troop management & composition is a concern. Stellaris comes to mind, with their fleet management system. It's a quality of life feature, though, so it wouldn't be very high priority. It's also potentially detrimental in the early game, when you don't have much money. Still, it would be handy.

4. Maybe it would be convenient for some, but you'd often want more detailed control of your party, for instance cavalry that consists of some horse-archers and some lancers.

It doesn't have to be managed by archetypes only. A robust system like Stellaris' would allow you to set quotas for every troop type available, of any tier you wish.