Block System Must Be Fixed

[rektasaurus]

How does blocking and block delay work exactly?

Sometimes when I see an attack coming from my left side, for instance, I’ll click left at the appropriate time and have the guard up but my opponent will step (read sprint) to my right and the release the swing. This some how misses my sword and goes right through my block and hits me in the right side of my body for 65 - 120 dmg. What should/can I do differently? I don’t like playing ring around the rosy.

 

[KSHMR]

@Callum

Most definitely, you and the developers are aware of this block delay mechanic. We, as a community, have still not had any message from you about whether this is going to stay or if it will be fixed. I would like to point out that a very strong majority of the playerbase is against this mechanics (at least in MP), which will cause a lot of trouble if this is to stay. The only thing it would do is basically ruin the native mod of the game and force that 80 or 90% of people to play a modded version of the Native mod. I mean, quite frankly, this wouldn't be that big of an issue. But I would argue that it is better to do things right in native to avoid such a mess. Is there anything you can tell us about on regarding this matter?

 

[Zoonanay]

@Callum

Most definitely, you and the developers are aware of this block delay mechanic. We, as a community, have still not had any message from you about whether this is going to stay or if it will be fixed. I would like to point out that a very strong majority of the playerbase is against this mechanics (at least in MP), which will cause a lot of trouble if this is to stay. The only thing it would do is basically ruin the native mod of the game and force that 80 or 90% of people to play a modded version of the Native mod. I mean, quite frankly, this wouldn't be that big of an issue. But I would argue that it is better to do things right in native to avoid such a mess. Is there anything you can tell us about on regarding this matter?

AVRC mentioned them adjusting blocking on Statements about MP thread, don't think they're going to tell us what those adjustments are though until they're released sadly.

 

[Thistle]

I have never had any problem making a simple block, the only problem is against feints but that's me not the system. Admittedly attack and block delay is annoying but attack delay makes block delay null and void.

 

[rektasaurus]

I have never had any problem making a simple block, the only problem is against feints but that's me not the system. Admittedly attack and block delay is annoying but attack delay makes block delay null and void.

Whenever I read “block delay” I imagine they’re talking about latency discrepancy issues. In which case, yes, tw needs to address it asap.

 

[Dextrus]

Whenever I read “block delay” I imagine they’re talking about latency discrepancy issues. In which case, yes, tw needs to address it asap.

What people are talking about are essentially 2 things.

1. The "flat" block delay which exists to balance out ping differences between players and which is, as the Devs have pointed out, the same in Bannerlords as it was in Warband.

2. The "dynamic" block delay which is roughly based on the weight of the weapon and the current position of the weapon compared to the desired blocking position. The latter thing was very significant in the Beta and got toned down by A LOT after a lot of complains but still exists to some degree. Now if you an dyour opponent both have a 1h sword, both of you experience the same "delay" while a person with a heavy menavlion will experience more delay on his blocks. Many people blame this delay for them dying while in reality it is not as significant but should still be toned down.

 

[rektasaurus]

What people are talking about are essentially 2 things.

1. The "flat" block delay which exists to balance out ping differences between players and which is, as the Devs have pointed out, the same in Bannerlords as it was in Warband.

2. The "dynamic" block delay which is roughly based on the weight of the weapon and the current position of the weapon compared to the desired blocking position. The latter thing was very significant in the Beta and got toned down by A LOT after a lot of complains but still exists to some degree. Now if you an dyour opponent both have a 1h sword, both of you experience the same "delay" while a person with a heavy menavlion will experience more delay on his blocks. Many people blame this delay for them dying while in reality it is not as significant but should still be toned down.

I’m aware, I was being snarky. I could be wrong since I’m still learning but any time I’ve died and felt that I did my input correctly but still couldn’t block in time I’ve just figured had more to do with latency than the speed at which my block direction changes.

I’m actually a little fuzzy on how a flat block delay would balance out ping differences. Is there a different time delay applied to different pings?

 

[Dextrus]

I’m actually a little fuzzy on how a flat block delay would balance out ping differences. Is there a different time delay applied to different pings?

Say player A has a ping of 10 ms and player B one of 80, player A would have the advantage everytime simply because he is faster. Now if both players are forced on the same playing field, it doesn’t matter who has the better ping to block. But don’t quote me on this. That’s just how I understood it.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Did they use the same game engine as in warband?

No. It is a custom built one for Bannerlord.

 

[rektasaurus]

Say player A has a ping of 10 ms and player B one of 80, player A would have the advantage everything simply because he is faster. Now if both players are forced in the same playing field, it doesn’t matter who has the better ping to block. But don’t quote me on this. That’s just how I understood it.

Yeah, I think I understand what you’re getting at. But that’s not what I understand from a term like “flat” block delay. What you’re describing sounds like a dynamically applied delay to force everyone’s max reaction speed to, say, 100 ping. I could actually see something like that working but a video posted earlier on a different thread showed pretty clearly that client updates are not dynamically adjusted to different ping times.

For example, a 70 ping player A is facing a 20 ping player B. If player A inputs an attack, it takes 90 ms (70 ms from client A to server + 20 ms from server to client B) for it to show on player B’s screen, but 140 ms for it to show on player A’s screen. If player B inputs an attack, it takes only 40 ms for it to show on player B’s screen, but a whopping 90 ms on player A’s.

A “flat” delay would never work to solve for ping differences. A better solution would be to take the highest ping in the server and time the response so that every client receives the update at the same time. So in the case above it would be player B (20 ping) inputs an attack, normally it would take 40 ms for the attack to show up on player B’s screen and 90 ms for player A, but in this case add a 50 ms delay only to player B so that both player A and B receive the update from the server after 70 ms.

An even better solution would be to add a delay to the input as well. So that both players see the input 140 ms after clicked. So basically the highest ping player sets the latency for everyone. A curve can be applied to ignore very high ping players so that one random from China doesn’t wreck everyone’s game... seeing as there isn’t a way to vote kick players currently. Also some smoothing to calculated ping times to mitigate rubberbanding.

Is this the current system? It sure doesn’t feel like it.

Edit: can’t anyone respond to this? I feel like this is probably the most pressing issue for mp. It’s been days since the issue was first brought up and no one seems to know the answer...

 

[Dextrus]

Yeah, I think I understand what you’re getting at. But that’s not what I understand from a term like “flat” block delay. What you’re describing sounds like a dynamically applied delay to force everyone’s max reaction speed to, say, 100 ping. I could actually see something like that working but a video posted earlier on a different thread showed pretty clearly that client updates are not dynamically adjusted to different ping times.

For example, a 70 ping player A is facing a 20 ping player B. If player A inputs an attack, it takes 90 ms (70 ms from client A to server + 20 ms from server to client B) for it to show on player B’s screen, but 140 ms for it to show on player A’s screen. If player B inputs an attack, it takes only 40 ms for it to show on player B’s screen, but a whopping 90 ms on player A’s.

A “flat” delay would never work to solve for ping differences. A better solution would be to take the highest ping in the server and time the response so that every client receives the update at the same time. So in the case above it would be player B (20 ping) inputs an attack, normally it would take 40 ms for the attack to show up on player B’s screen and 90 ms for player A, but in this case add a 50 ms delay only to player B so that both player A and B receive the update from the server after 70 ms.

An even better solution would be to add a delay to the input as well. So that both players see the input 140 ms after clicked. So basically the highest ping player sets the latency for everyone. A curve can be applied to ignore very high ping players so that one random from China doesn’t wreck everyone’s game... seeing as there isn’t a way to vote kick players currently. Also some smoothing to calculated ping times to mitigate rubberbanding.

Is this the current system? It sure doesn’t feel like it.

Edit: can’t anyone respond to this? I feel like this is probably the most pressing issue for mp. It’s been days since the issue was first brought up and no one seems to know the answer...

No everyone gets the same flat delay. It is not dynamically apllied afaik.

 

[rektasaurus]

No everyone gets the same flat delay. It is not dynamically apllied afaik.

Gnarly. How a flat delay would help with ping differences I can’t understand.