bl Combat is broken

[Obliterati]

Hey guys so been playing this game since beta and had many successful runs through the game already where i had mostly been fine throughout the game, but this last run while much has been improved ive noticed a disturbing trend. larger battles have started to give me 1 to 1 kill ratios regardless of my tactics and playing. infact i mess up and i still get 1 to 1. 1 to 1. i play like a ****ing god and guess what? 1 to 1. i replay the same battle 5 times? 1 to 1. ive been trying to figure this out for 3 months now.

now you are obviously thinking its just me and i must be some kind of idiot noob to notice this that nobody else in the entire community seems to have noticed, but the very next battle where instead of me having the 5 to 1 numbers advantage i have a 1 to 1 or am even out numbered and guess what? i kill 700 and only lose one hundred. are my tactics different? no. is the enemy different? no. is the map different? yes, but should have been more favorable in the first instance no question about it.

and ive got almost 900 hours into this game previously, so i think i know how to try lines, walls, squares, circles, tried attacking, defending, manually moving troops, skirmish mode, flanking and envelopment tactics with all the various types of units etc and ya none of that makes any bit of difference whatsoever over another in these larger battles. always the exact same i start off where im mopping the floor with them, and all of a sudden they spawn in directly into the battle and my guys instantly just die and i just see a sea of red come over the kill list.

and its like a goddamn light switch. one second its nothing but green all my guys are in perfect position and have perfect cohesion, then suddenly enemy are spawning in all around your guys (including behind them) and its flashing page after page of red until it meets that magic 1 to 1 ratio. ive tested this now dozens if not hundreds of times over the last 3 months and theres no way i think this is intended gameplay especially seeing as ive talked with half the community and am using every trick in the book and personally killing 20-50 each round on veteran with max battle size. oh and this isnt behind enemy lines where im noticing enemy spawning in, this is directly on my front line or behind my own line.

someone at least tell me you've noticed this before, i really cant be the only one....

oh and only mods i have are color mods (which dont work anyways)

Summary:
How to Reproduce: big battles
Have you used cheats and if so which: no
Scene Name (if related):
Media (Screenshots & Video):https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd....325/09360D06538306922D4441922BB03F9A7264866C/
Computer Specs:
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[D0c1]

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/armour-why-it-doesnt-work-and-how-to-make-it-work.426296/

 

[momo1]

Same

 

[Doofus]

I don't generally run into this, but I think its because of the strategy I use. First, I usually have better class troops than they do. The majority are generally level 3 and up, with most being level 4+. However, regarding the change from mostly green to mostl red...

If I can I play defensively, holding my troops back near my respawn. If I can't, I slowly advance using F1/F2 (follow me) to move my troops together. When I get close I have them attack, then when I see them start chasing fleeing troops and spreading out, I pull them back together using F1/F2, before sending them out on the attack. In a fairly large battle I'll do this at least 3 or 4 times.

There's a few reasons your initial success turns red. First, of course, is your initial troops are taking damage and becoming more vulnerable after time. However, perhaps more important, they tend to have a dozen run off after one retreating troop, with this happening in at least 3 or 4 places at the same time. So the troops that remain to fight are becoming badly outnumbered. Also, when going against Khuzaits, Aserai, or any army that has a lot of horses, the enemy horses start running back toward your respawn, so your reserves that are coming to the battle stop to fight one or two horses, thereby spreading your troops out again and depriving your front line troops of the reinforcements they need. Again, with periodic F1/F2 your reserves will ignore those horses and move to a central position gathering together.

A third factor could be the settings themselves. I play on Easy, not Easiest or Normal and i don't know how a difference in that setting would affect things.

 

[paladinx333]

then suddenly enemy are spawning in all around your guys (including behind them)

Never fight near the enemy spawn point.
Never let your cavalry run wild unless the enemy is more than 90% dead. They will just run to the enemy spawn point and get slaughtered.
Never charge your infantry. Let the enemy come to you.

I can't confirm your results as I don't take many casualties anymore. I used to get slaughtered by spawning enemies. Now I use the spawn system to slaughter my enemies.

The reinforcement system in this game is awful. It's no better than Warband. Magically teleporting enemies is unrealistic and silly.

STAY OFF THE DAMN RESPAWN POINT AND WATCH YOUR FORTUNES IN BATTLE IMPROVE!!!

Maybe some day we will have a game that can take full armies on the battlefield. Today is not that day.

 

[Lord Irontoe]

Never fight near the enemy spawn point.
Never let your cavalry run wild unless the enemy is more than 90% dead. They will just run to the enemy spawn point and get slaughtered.
Never charge your infantry. Let the enemy come to you.

I can't confirm your results as I don't take many casualties anymore. I used to get slaughtered by spawning enemies. Now I use the spawn system to slaughter my enemies.

The reinforcement system in this game is awful. It's no better than Warband. Magically teleporting enemies is unrealistic and silly.

STAY OFF THE DAMN RESPAWN POINT AND WATCH YOUR FORTUNES IN BATTLE IMPROVE!!!

Maybe some day we will have a game that can take full armies on the battlefield. Today is not that day.

I'll never understand why they don't have reinforcements spawn outside the battle area in the red zone. It makes no sense to spawn them in the battle area. There should at least be some sort of graphic representation of the spawn point so you know to stay clear of it. The immersive way to do it would be to have a model of an army camp sitting just outside the battle area, which you can see from a ways off.

 

[Philozoraptor]

I'll never understand why they don't have reinforcements spawn outside the battle area in the red zone. It makes no sense to spawn them in the battle area. There should at least be some sort of graphic representation of the spawn point so you know to stay clear of it. The immersive way to do it would be to have a model of an army camp sitting just outside the battle area, which you can see from a ways off.

Some maps have no access point, they are craters surrounded by mountain ranges. What can I say, nice design.

 

[Doofus]

In general, I agree with both of the above. In realty though, saying 'Never fight near the enemy spawn point' isn't totally doable. If you are attacking the enemy, a lot of times they wait to fight you at or near the spawn point. You have to go to them there. But if they moved some from the spawn point, try to attack from a direction that puts the spawn point behind them, not behind you, and always keep your troops grouped together. Never fight with them spread out unless the enemy is fleeing.

 

[KingEroc1st]

you are getting owned by the reinforcement system. it's stupid but that's what they have and you have to work around it.

each army will reinforce after losing a certain number of troops. it will lag the game for an instance unless your PC is too ****ing godly. so that's the que. the reinforcement will generally spawn at the same spots as your starting location. which means if you pulled your formation back, and you are fighting the enemies that are advancing, your reinforcements will literally spawn inside the enemy army. and if you are charging at them, then their reinforcements will spawn inside/behind yours.

what to do about it? solution one is use retreat, every time it respawns, retreat and reset. this isnt great since your troops don't gain experience in the battles you retreat. they'll only get levels at the last battle you win

another way is to set up the fight in your favor.
-- always have a bigger army so the enemy starts defensive, this gives you time to set up, and troop advantage
-- set the front line of your troops exactly where they spawn in or even ahead, so your reinforcements won't get caught in nomansland.
-- attack the enemy cavalry on the flanks and defeat them in detail. while not engaging their main body. (keep in mind that is only their initial cav force, more will come in reinforcements)
-- pull the enemy army with horse archer ranged fire
-- defeat the enemy in nomansland in front of your infantry. set up cross fire from archers and HA, sweep with heavy cav.

waves of reinforcements will come, but the enemy will have to leg over here, where your troops will at worst spawn around your infantry. they'll immediately join their designated formations. so having a shield wall might mean your infantry moves slowly, this cannot be helped since maintaining your wall is paramount. this is why i suggest having your wall set up exactly at the spawn, or in front of it, so your infantry are shielded when slowly walking towards formation, instead of having to cross the battlefield.

sometimes, if the enemy suffers heavy losses they will temp retreat and meet up with their reinforcements and then push again. take this time to stop firing and re-organize your ranks. do not, charge them, do not charge. do not send cavalry, do not do it.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

The 1 to 1 is because the difference in troops, tiers and even formations/performance just isn't that much, so if you ever let troops fight directly (or shoot at each other) you can count on getting close to 1 to 1 losses, I usually call it trading. The exception can be t5-6 ranged units may have enough ranged advantage to easily defeat a equal sized amount of lower tier ranged units, but the same just isn't true for infantry. Even t5 infantry in SW advancing into miss-mashed infantry isn't going to come out un-scathed unless it has support from ranged units .... which means really the ranged units do 90% of the killing and the infantry kind of distract... whatever works.

This is why using things like hordes of t3 khuzait raider is strong and efficient, you can just move them back out of harm way (or even retreat) and wear down larger forces without letting any troops "fight" freely. You may lose a few to ranged enemies but really whenever you control where you ranges is (keep re-positioning) and interfere personally you can have very few losses.

 

[Arkyll]

I complained about 1:1 and it turned out to be a mod. 1:1 battle troop composition is not a native thing, it should be proportionate to the total troop ratio.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

I complained about 1:1 and it turned out to be a mod. 1:1 battle troop composition is not a native thing, it should be proportionate to the total troop ratio.

I took OP to means his losses in combat are 1 to 1.

 

[Doofus]

In an open fight (non-siege) with even numbers, I usually win with about a 4 to 1 ratio of their losses to mine, Its even better if you consider my losses include wounded, which will recover. I'm sure part of it is the settings (easy), part of it is character, level-up, bonuses, part of it is just plain superior troops, and part of it is strategy from controlling the troops. Also, besides just controlling my troops, I tend to try controlling their calvary in most battles. I usually kill 15-30 of their horse troops (in bigger battles), which also helps keep them from being a distraction to my reinforcements. When they don't have a lot of horse troops, sometimes I use my character to kill fleeing troops, so I don't have a dozen good fighters following a coward to the border.

 

[Obliterati]

thanks for the responses folks. some things to think on at least. still kinda seems like a bum rap overall for us tho. really hope we see changes in the near future on this. so much work into the game, but one of the core functions being so off really hurts.

 

[Doofus]

I like a strategy game. Just saying 'everyone attack' and watching them attack isn't particularly strategy. I don't want something super complicated, but I do like that strategy, keeping track of the battle, and periodically controlling your troops is necessary. I suppose you could make a command that says 'fight grouped together', but then when reinforcements spawn (regularly) does that mean your troops are going to run back to respawn & get shot in the back? There may be better ways of dealing with it & I wish I could at least command my troops to not follow fleeing troops unless all enemy are fleeing, but generally this works for me.