Betting on Arena matches without being a participant

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Satur9

Recruit
I've been playing around as a pure trader with no combat abilities and I have to say I miss the arena. Having to completely ignore that portion of the game because I'm unable to participate directly as a squishy merchant is pretty immersion breaking. It would be excellent if players could "join" the arena matches purely as a spectator and place a bet every round on one of the actual participants. The player perspective could be just like it is after you've been downed and can pop between the other combatants.

I would really appreciate if TW could implement this in a future patch to the game. I haven't quite gotten up to speed with modding myself. Until then my fat merchant lord will just be forced to droop his mustache in disappointment whenever he passes through a town with a tournament on...
 

Bluko88

Regular
I've been playing around as a pure trader with no combat abilities and I have to say I miss the arena. Having to completely ignore that portion of the game because I'm unable to participate directly as a squishy merchant is pretty immersion breaking. It would be excellent if players could "join" the arena matches purely as a spectator and place a bet every round on one of the actual participants. The player perspective could be just like it is after you've been downed and can pop between the other combatants.

I would really appreciate if TW could implement this in a future patch to the game. I haven't quite gotten up to speed with modding myself. Until then my fat merchant lord will just be forced to droop his mustache in disappointment whenever he passes through a town with a tournament on...
Yeah this would be nice. Though you would probably lose more money then gain. Still could be another way to level up Roguery.

Other then grinding up combat skills a bit and getting some good items/money early on, there isn't much point to the Arena. Besides being able to bet on other participants and watch - I' like to see the following too:

  • Being able to dedicate a Tournament Victory to a named Character* present in Town, at the cost of prize
*This could be a Notable, Lord/Lady, or a Companion/Family member. Also wouldn't be a bad way to get Charm experience, make a lot more sense then how you often get it.
  • Rent the Arena to train your troops and host practice fights between your troops
It's totally absurd there's no real way to train troops other then fighting Looters (Calradia has an insane amount of Looters - is this what happens when Walmart is gone?) Obviously practice fighting shouldn't get you Tier 6 Troops in a few days or anything like that - but at least get your Recruits to Tier 2 so they are ready for battle. The only time the Player or Lords should be dragging raw Recruits into battle is if they are truly desperate or in a rush

This could actually help stop the never ending waves of War Parties... you know if Lords prioritized recruiting as many troops as they can and THEN level them up so they are fit for battle.

Sorry OP kinda hijacked your thread a bit, but hopefully you're of a like mind.
 

Satur9

Recruit
I agree, a complete arena overhaul would add a lot to the immersion for cities in single player. I feel like that is not where Taleworlds is focusing their development efforts at the moment, and I respect that.

My proposed change to allow spectator betting would require little to no UI changes, and I feel could be implimented relatively easily. I just want the low hanging fruit for now.
 

SadShogun

A Furtherer of the Calradic Cause
Developer
I've been playing around as a pure trader with no combat abilities and I have to say I miss the arena. Having to completely ignore that portion of the game because I'm unable to participate directly as a squishy merchant is pretty immersion breaking. It would be excellent if players could "join" the arena matches purely as a spectator and place a bet every round on one of the actual participants. The player perspective could be just like it is after you've been downed and can pop between the other combatants.

I would really appreciate if TW could implement this in a future patch to the game. I haven't quite gotten up to speed with modding myself. Until then my fat merchant lord will just be forced to droop his mustache in disappointment whenever he passes through a town with a tournament on...
I agree on the premise and it could be fun. However, for example, would a fully random betting outcome make sense? On the other hand, we spend (precious) time and can simulate and calculate the average win rates of each troop type in arena battles and calculate the odds etc. Since it has a nice randomness in it because of our dynamic combat, I believe all kinds of results are expected (while there will of course be some favourites) and would be a more realistic betting system.
Both are possible in theory and both require varying amounts of time and even in the simple features, we have to go through tests and iterate.

What I don't know is how having a minigame based purely on chance would feel and would it be a feature that would find a place in our players. In certain games which include arena fights with battling the player can affect the outcomes through different means (e.g. cheering)
It is one of the features we will investigate in future.

Yeah this would be nice. Though you would probably lose more money then gain. Still could be another way to level up Roguery.

Other then grinding up combat skills a bit and getting some good items/money early on, there isn't much point to the Arena. Besides being able to bet on other participants and watch - I' like to see the following too:

  • Being able to dedicate a Tournament Victory to a named Character* present in Town, at the cost of prize
*This could be a Notable, Lord/Lady, or a Companion/Family member. Also wouldn't be a bad way to get Charm experience, make a lot more sense then how you often get it.
  • Rent the Arena to train your troops and host practice fights between your troops
It's totally absurd there's no real way to train troops other then fighting Looters (Calradia has an insane amount of Looters - is this what happens when Walmart is gone?) Obviously practice fighting shouldn't get you Tier 6 Troops in a few days or anything like that - but at least get your Recruits to Tier 2 so they are ready for battle. The only time the Player or Lords should be dragging raw Recruits into battle is if they are truly desperate or in a rush

This could actually help stop the never ending waves of War Parties... you know if Lords prioritized recruiting as many troops as they can and THEN level them up so they are fit for battle.

Sorry OP kinda hijacked your thread a bit, but hopefully you're of a like mind.

Using the arena for training our troops is an interesting idea (in exchange for some gold and possibly having a risk of wounding/killing them etc), I would love to discuss this idea with our design team.

As always thank you for your feedback.
 

Satur9

Recruit
Thanks for taking the time to consider my request. Others can feel free to weigh in, but I think betting on combatants you think will will and letting the dynamic combat determine the outcome is much more fun and organic. Even a Lord in resplendent armor can be bested in a 2v2 match if their companion takes a crossbow bolt to the head too early in the match.

I've never much cared if the arena was lucrative, just that it's a fun part of the game. I think it would be fun and interesting if you had a spectator player character in the stands, cheering and throwing rotten produce or coins into the ring to effect the outcome. I'm wary of feature creep though. I feel like just observing like you currently do in the arena once you're knocked out, but with the added UI element of betting on NPCs instead of yourself is a nice bite-sized addition that would bring some value for players of the single player campaign who elect to let others fight for them.
 

AnandaShanti

Master Knight
You don't need any combat skills (as in stats on the character) at all to win the tournament. All melee weapons work perfectly with zero skill.
 

Satur9

Recruit
You don't need any combat skills (as in stats on the character) at all to win the tournament. All melee weapons work perfectly with zero skill.
Yeah, I get you. I've definitely cleaned house with a new character that has no skills just to get some valuable weapon/armor and a bit of scratch. This isn't a matter of "git gud" though, it's about immersion. A trader or intellectual character might not be willing to set foot in the arena, even if the player controlling them has the skill to win against all odds. Currently that player is left with the option to either go against the character's nature and get blood all over their fine silk overcoat, or avoid that portion of the game entirely. It would be nice to have a middle ground, even if in most cases you only have a 50/50 chance of making profit.

+1 on the higher betting odds for peasants vs low odds for a fully decked out Khan's guard.
 
I agree on the premise and it could be fun. However, for example, would a fully random betting outcome make sense? On the other hand, we spend (precious) time and can simulate and calculate the average win rates of each troop type in arena battles and calculate the odds etc. Since it has a nice randomness in it because of our dynamic combat, I believe all kinds of results are expected (while there will of course be some favourites) and would be a more realistic betting system.
Both are possible in theory and both require varying amounts of time and even in the simple features, we have to go through tests and iterate.

What I don't know is how having a minigame based purely on chance would feel and would it be a feature that would find a place in our players. In certain games which include arena fights with battling the player can affect the outcomes through different means (e.g. cheering)
It is one of the features we will investigate in future.



Using the arena for training our troops is an interesting idea (in exchange for some gold and possibly having a risk of wounding/killing them etc), I would love to discuss this idea with our design team.

As always thank you for your feedback.
Bit more simplistic approach (if not both them then atleast one of them can be somewhat more easly be implemented):
-Have non NPC notable prisoners be thrown into arena to satisfy the masses and player and other lowborns can bet on them and earn a coin.
-When ener arena and speak to the NPC you can hire a champion that will represent you in tournaments and be on your pay book but the champion is only paid his full price if he wins his matches and if lose and still alive then he is only paid 10% of his original pay.The champion stays with you until it dies or until you fire him/her and replace with different randomized champion from the pool that the NPC is giving at that moment/are available at that moment.


More in depth apraoch (maybe if possible some of them or maybe all added ner the full release at end stages or maybe even as a post full release update if not possible to go more in depth with Arena system so leave it for later date):

Well there can be several variations/lvl of tournaments (more work/more in depth arena system)
-There can be status oriented betting/torunament where only nobles/notables participate and you can only be in their company and participate in betting if you are also a powerfull notabe aka person with built up name thruout Calradia.
-There can be champions/knight tournament where nobles chose their champion to fight in their name or can take on a champion themself (expensive to hire and are high tier unit).Once you hire that champion he/she until its death will fight for you in tournaments agais other nobles/notables champions or notabels themself.
-Have non NPC notable prisoners be thrown into arena to satisfy the masses by battling each other and the winner of the tournament has a chance to eighter be released and be recruited into the towns garrison or set free.
 
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