Better Unit/Prisoner Management Options

[Lascivius Lam]

Often times I would like to upgrade units, but I do not have the free slots neccessary to perform said upgrades. That being said, I feel as though the current interface is not all that intuitive... and there probably should be some sort of additional functionality to carry it one step further.

For instance, when you click on upgrade there is no dialogue warning you as to WHY you cannot upgrade them. I feel that this is bad user flow, when this first was happening to me.... I really could not tell whether it was just broken or if it there was a reason I could not upgrade. Warning dialogues are your friend... please implement a warning dialogue feature for us who like the game to talk to us!

Additionally, I also have an issue with the Prisoner Management system. First of all, I feel as though it is VERY stupid that you cannot stack different types of prisoners together. If I have 5 prisoner control slots... then why can't I carry 2 Sea Raiders and 3 Swadian Scouts... it just doesn't make any sense at all to me. Again add more warning dialogues!! I know I could add more prisoner management skill points, but when I cannot even fill up the 5 control slots that I already have properly, why would I want to spend more points in something that seems flawed and nearly unworkable?

Also, when I am "talking" to my heroes and trying to manage their armor and such. Why doesn't the game keep track of how much money the heroes owe you? Also, why don't the heroes ever get any gold at all? If they are joined with me and I am aligned with the Vaegirs, then why don't they receive wages as well? But most of all I want to see the game keep track of their debt to you... that way if I want an item that is on them or if I just want to swap out for an item I already gave them... I do not have to lose money on the trade or at least lose some of my "profit". Is there any way that you heroes can get gold?? I have NEVER once seen them with any gold... so why do they even have a gold counter if they NEVER have any gold at all? This also just doesn't make sense to me.

More to come I am sure... but there's my two cents.

 

[Tiedye]

I agree that the bartering system with heroes should be looked at. It doesn't make sense that I can give one of my heroes a sword, but if I try to take it back the next day he charges me some outrageous sum. Either take away the whole money management between members of your party (like Fallout 2 did, I believe), or let them go into debt.

As far as prisoner management goes, I don't think the system needs to be changed at all. I completely disagree that it is "VERY stupid" that you can't stack different groups of prisoners together. Different cultures, different types of units, etc. would require different techniques to keep them in line. You can't treat a captured knight the same way you would treat a captured peasant, and I'd assume dealing with Swadians vs. Vaeger would offer similar challenges. Prisoner management simulates your ability to deal with such issues.

Also, and perhaps more importantly, if prisoner stacks were taken away, Prisoner Management would be even less useful than it already is.

 

[Lascivius Lam]

I suppose I see your point here, it is just obnoxious to me is all... but it seems that most people disagree with me so I will withdraw my request... hehehe. Wouldn't want everyone upset about a change that only I wanted.

 

[Manu]

The slot system for prisoners also lets the game keep track of what is captured and will wander around or join your party.

Revamping it would probably mean going straight at the code. More hasle than it's worth in my opinion.

 

[Lascivius Lam]

Again, my issue is not with the limitations of the slot system. I understand that you need to have X amount of control slots... because it makes the game more realistic. My main problem is that the current slot system makes it so that you very rarely can use all of your control slots. What I was trying to propose and must have been unclear about is this.

Let's say you have the opportunity to capture 3 Swabian Scouts and 2 Sea Raiders and your max prisoner stack count is at 5. In this case, you can only capture either the 3 Swabian Scouts or the 2 Sea Raiders. What I would like to see is a way for you consume all five of your stack counts, but not exceed that max number of 5. So you click to cpature the 3 Swabian Scouts, then click to capture the 2 Sea Raiders. It automatically generates an extra slot stack for the raiders, but its max count is only 2... because that is all that you have left for your max "stack count".

I know this seems unreasonable to most people at this point... so that is why I dropped my issue. Hope that makes sense.

 

[mgl]

Different cultures, different types of units, etc. would require different techniques to keep them in line. You can't treat a captured knight the same way you would treat a captured peasant, and I'd assume dealing with Swadians vs. Vaeger would offer similar challenges. Prisoner management simulates your ability to deal with such issues.

Id like to see a slotless prison system with only a max prisoner cap, all they need is some water, bread and a chain around their necks? I doubt slavers cared very much for how they treated their slaves =)

 

[Shyhalu]

For instance, when you click on upgrade there is no dialogue warning you as to WHY you cannot upgrade them. I feel that this is bad user flow, when this first was happening to me.... I really could not tell whether it was just broken or if it there was a reason I could not upgrade. Warning dialogues are your friend... please implement a warning dialogue feature for us who like the game to talk to us!

The dev shouldn't have to compensate for lack of problem solving skills.

Different cultures, different types of units, etc. would require different techniques to keep them in line. You can't treat a captured knight the same way you would treat a captured peasant, and I'd assume dealing with Swadians vs. Vaeger would offer similar challenges. Prisoner management simulates your ability to deal with such issues.

Id like to see a slotless prison system with only a max prisoner cap, all they need is some water, bread and a chain around their necks? I doubt slavers cared very much for how they treated their slaves =)

Yes, and in the middle of the night when your swadien man at arms strangles your vaegir footman you'll only have yourself to blame.

 

[Lascivius Lam]

The dev shouldn't have to compensate for lack of problem solving skills.

Actually, yes they should try to compensate for this. I am a game developer and it IS the developer's job to let the players know what is going on in their games and why it is going on. As a dev you should always plan for the stupidest possible player or the person with the least amount of problem solving skills.

To insult me is entirely unneccessary, I am only trying to give constructive feedback based on my 7 years of experience in the game development biz. If YOU were a dev and did NOT plan for the people's lack of problem solving skills and constantly developed games that were vague... YOU would be fired in mere months.

It is common sense that not everyone thinks in the same way or uses the same method of reaching one's goals. It is the devs JOB to understand and try to train their players on how best to use their games. It is typical "user flow" 101. Because there are all sorts of people in the world, with all sorts of thought processes, it is PARAMOUNT to plan and develop a system that gives the maximum amount of feedback as well as the easiest routes to reach goals. If there is a system that the dev feels is the best option, they should take any and all steps neccessary to teach (or at least illustrate to) their players how to use that system.

If you disagree with this, do not go trying to get a job developing games for EA or SOE because you would not last more than 2-3 months.

Yes, and in the middle of the night when your swadien man at arms strangles your vaegir footman you'll only have yourself to blame.

I can see your point here... and am still torn on the issue... there is something that should be developed further here, but I am dropping the issue because it seems the popular majority disagrees... or do they? Let the polls define what happens! )

Hope you do not take my words the wrong way... I am just stating the facts based on industry game development standards.

 

[corksacker69]

dont really care much for prisoners (kill em all!), but i would like more army unit managment, like custom equiping, more control over your units on the battlefeild, etc.

 

[[bulletproof]]

I agree that it might be nicer to have no slots for prisoners, but at the moment i really like the slot system for party management. It adds comprimise and depth - you can have plenty of one unit, but upgrading is difficult and diversity is usually wanted. I say: keep the slot system forever! It adds character to this game.

As far as party bartering goes, yes, remove that trading money crap. Also, does anyone else have problems with the 2 NPCs fighting? I gave borcha a falchion, but he never fights.

 

[Tiedye]

Bulletproof: That's because he's not strong enough to use it. Borcha starts with a strength of 7, and falchions require 8, I believe. He'll just stand in the spot he starts in without moving.

The game really should warn you that he can't use his weapon. Sometimes a go for a while without noticing I messed up equipping him.

 

[corksacker69]

the equip screens for npcs need a complete overhaul so it's the same screen you use for equiping your own character. sorry it just does.

 

[Tiedye]

Yeah, I definitely agree with that one. It would make things a lot more intuitive. Also, it would be nice to switch between party members' inventories from your own inventory screen (like left and right arrows in the corner of the screen somewhere). Same with the character sheet.

 

[[bulletproof]]

Ah.... brilliant. That's why he used the puny knife before.

I'll give that a try. Yeah, that wasnt clear at all. definitely should have a notification.

 

[Tiedye]

As a dev you should always plan for the stupidest possible player or the person with the least amount of problem solving skills.

I'm guessing this explains the demise of adventure games like Monkey Island or King's Quest. Yeah, pandering to the lowest common denomenator might help you ship a couple of extra units, but it isn't usually the way to go when you want to create something new, innovative, or realistic.

If you disagree with this, do not go trying to get a job developing games for EA or SOE because you would not last more than 2-3 months.

Fitting that you should bring up EA in a thread about slavery.

 

[Ferox]

I like it the way it is and I'm sure it will become more intuitive as the game progresses(its still early).



The only thing I would like is to be able to have more control of my units in battle itself, and the ability to keep prisoners as prisoners.(ie if you kill an army you can keep THEIR prisoners as prisoners, not as army units or set them free)

 

[armagan]

For instance, when you click on upgrade there is no dialogue warning you as to WHY you cannot upgrade them. I feel that this is bad user flow, when this first was happening to me.... I really could not tell whether it was just broken or if it there was a reason I could not upgrade. Warning dialogues are your friend... please implement a warning dialogue feature for us who like the game to talk to us!

I am adding some more feedback to the hire and upgrade buttons. I hope it will work much better now. Thanks a lot for bringing that up.

 

[Lascivius Lam]

I am adding some more feedback to the hire and upgrade buttons. I hope it will work much better now. Thanks a lot for bringing that up.

Armagan: Thanks for listening to us! We really appreciate the work and diligence that you put forth on the boards. I hope that my words are not taken in a negative light, I REALLY love this game and would really like to see how thing develop I think you have a good player base who really cares about where this game goes. I hope that the idea of warning dialogues makes sense... if you have any questions, just let me know. Thanks again!

 

[Worbah]

BTW what can you do with prisoners? So far the only use for them that I've noticed (besides the quests that tell you to capture someone) is the slaver. And why do you get the same amount of cash for every type of slave?

 

[Lascivius Lam]

BTW what can you do with prisoners? So far the only use for them that I've noticed (besides the quests that tell you to capture someone) is the slaver. And why do you get the same amount of cash for every type of slave?

There is only one purpose that I can see other than the slave trader, that purpose is to complete the captured enemy quests. For instance, if you are aligned with the Vaegir, some of the counts ask you to capture certain amounts of enemy soldiers (this may be true for the Swadians as well). They will ask for specific troops... and give you experience and gold in return for the captured soldiers. It would be cool if you could ransom them back to the opposing faction for a pretty penny... or if there were more quests regarding prisoners...