Better Spears!!!

[nightrunn3r]

I'd like to see the Pike and Spear power become upgraded to have something around 30 damage(of course, the price would inflate as well). We already have enough low level stabbing only polearms (boar spear, pitchfork) and a middle range one (lance), but we have no really powerful spears. To make sure that these wouldn't make the horseback lances obsolete, Pikes and Spears could be made uncouchable.

Along with this suggestion, i'd like to suggest a feature i'll call "stopping power." If a stab from a polearm deals more than X damage to a horse, the horse rears. Also, if X damage is done to a rider, he has a chance to become unhorsed.

 

[Manu]

Lances habve never been known for the amount of damage they deal - their forte were range (especially in massed formations) and low cost, as well as ease of training. Pumping up their damage makes no sense.

 

[Otto Von Lanstien]

Lances have never been known for the amount of damage they deal - their forte were range (especially in massed formations) and low cost, as well as ease of training. Pumping up their damage makes no sense.

True, but I like the idea of the rearing horses and dismounting probability.

 

[Destichado]

Lances habve never been known for the amount of damage they deal...

The *heck* they haven't!
I can knock a man off his feet *far* easier with a thrust than I can with blow. Give me a hewing spear and I'll take on you sword&boards any day.

 

[The Pope]

I'd say the problem is that there are no formations. No one ever duelled with spears, and M&B combat is mass duelling. A pike phalanx won't work unless you have a phalanx.

 

[Howzer]

I think the polearms need to be more specialized. Basically right now we have 1h spears, lances(great lance and jousting lance), and two handed swing/thrust weapons.

I'd like to see them changed as follows
Lance - Long range, low speed. 1h
Spear - Cheap, mid range, mid damage, mid speed. 1h
Staff - Very cheap, low blunt damage, mid range and high speed. 2h
Pike - Very long range, high damage, low speed. 2h

The other polearms i'm not really sure about since they vary alot themselves.

 

[JohnathanStrange]

Oh, never mind, I was quickly scanning the forum and I thought the thread was about Britney Spears (and I don't care what others say about her, she's hot).

 

[jeansberg]

I say:
1. Make spears more effective against cavalry
2. Make horse rearing deal damage to any infantry standing to close
= Larger tactical difference between swordsmen and spearmen

What do you think?

 

[ArabArcher35]

Well, spears are deadly against infantry, too, as long as you have room. The problem is, they have only one attack, which you can block by holding down the block button, and nothing else. Spears need more varied thrusts, or at least a blunt (and perhaps slashing, for boar spears) swinging attack. Secondary attacks, as previously mentioned by Destichado in a different thread, with shield bashes and hitting enemies with the butt of the spear, would also make them considerably more deadly.

Another problem is, the enemies constantly trying to have sex with your leg. That needs to get fixed.

BTW, NECROOOOO!

 

[oRGy]

I believe that spears are commonly used with short, quick, jabs; however in M&B you only get a "strong thrust" attack which takes time.

Also, there's a bug in the game at the moment, which means that all polearms can be used as lances.  So you can use a spear, a voulge, a scythe etc in a couched lance position. 

This is not correct; lances were specially designed to be used on horseback, with handguards and designed to be balanced.  And only light lances could be used in an overhand/underhand thrust on horseback.  You couldn't just hoist up your garden pitchfork and charge with it...

The only way around this is to put all polearms except lances into the "2h Weapons" skill, it seems.

There's a good site on mounted combat techniques here:

http://www.classicalfencing.com/mountedintro.php

After doing some research and basic modding, I've come to the conlusion that the weapons/armour as portrayed in M&B are mixed up and with a few exceptions, not realistic at all.  The system needs a complete overhaul if it wants to follow the realistic road a bit better - but maybe it's better for quick fun the way it is - not quite sure.

 

[Aratek]

Oh, never mind, I was quickly scanning the forum and I thought the thread was about Britney Spears (and I don't care what others say about her, she's hot).

The title of the topic was Better Spears!!!, not Britney Spears!!!. 

 

[Merentha]

Lances habve never been known for the amount of damage they deal...

The *heck* they haven't! 
I can knock a man off his feet *far* easier with a thrust than I can with blow.  Give me a hewing spear and I'll take on you sword&boards any day. 

Damn straight.  Spears are lethal.

Edit: and they should be in M&B too. See 1066 for a decent idea of a spear ingame.

 

[Róisín]

Perhaps spears (ie., thrust-only poles) should have FOUR thrusts, one for each attack direction.  Then, a fighter without a shield would have to block in the appropriate direction against a spearman.

Also, when blocking a spear with a shield, you should be vulnerable to spear thrusts from the opposite attack direction.  So if an opponent thrusts at your right side, and another thrusts at your left at the same time, the second blow would land.

Lastly, pole swings should be fast "counter-lever" style attacks, not the baseball/cricket bat style seen currently.

 

[PIL313]

i don't think the lances work as well in mount&blade as the should beacuse the terain is always hilly which makes it harder to cause mass damage

 

[Eird-Way]

- I've suggested that the leg-humping will stop when the AI knows that it is more profitable for the enemy to swing at air than be parried. If the AI just tries to back up out of range so that, instead of parrying, he can already start attacking while you are completing your "air-ball", the leg-humping will cease. I'm going to harp on "backwards jogging" at every opportunity.

- Just massively increase the damage for all the weapons. It makes the game a great deal more fun, more exciting, more realistic. I stand with my spear ready, a man comes at me with his mount&blade, I stab him in the face before his sword can reach me. No probalo - spears serve a purpose.

I've found that +30 to everything makes the game exciting instead of RPGful, while keeping strength, weapon choice, and armor meaningful. (In addition to making range meaningful, which it is not in a game where opening blows are never decisive).

 

[Nathan90]

I think armagan designed spears for couching not on foot.The spears are good enoth for me as i rarely use them.If you do want to use a olearm on the ground then use something like a glaive that can be both thrusted and swung.Even better still is to have a sword as a back up as you can't rely on the Spear/lance alone.

 

[The Pope]

Perhaps spears (ie., thrust-only poles) should have FOUR thrusts, one for each attack direction.  Then, a fighter without a shield would have to block in the appropriate direction against a spearman.

Also, when blocking a spear with a shield, you should be vulnerable to spear thrusts from the opposite attack direction.  So if an opponent thrusts at your right side, and another thrusts at your left at the same time, the second blow would land.

Lastly, pole swings should be fast "counter-lever" style attacks, not the baseball/cricket bat style seen currently.

Signed.

 

[Battle King]

I generally think they should be much faster and therefore more deadly, they had awesome penetrative powers against armours and shields and depending on the type of spear and the skill and strength of the wielder they could be handled with absolute speed and agility. There is also several ways to use a spear, two hand abdominal height thrusting not being the only one.

In my humble opinion this game has slightly nerfed the spear unless its used by cavalry or a large group of infantrymen who hold to a tight formation, which is a rare occurrence. I wont go right into history but suffice to say the Greeks, Egyptians, Persians, Hittites, Africans and a whole host of other nations saw fit to use the spear as a main and sometimes elite weapon for quite some time.