Better Faction Troops 2 (for Diplomacy mod)

Sir Missesalot

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--1.21 FINAL VERSION--
Compatible with Diplomacy 3.2 and Warband patch 1.132 (may not entirely work with save games from earlier versions).
[ Download Link: http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=2291  ;  -to install simply extract to M&B Warband \Modules folder.

Minor Patch: http://www.zshare.net/download/813799180e8a73ab/ download and overwrite old troops.txt file in the mods Modules folder; only needed if you downloaded 1.2 (before 10/10/2010) and not 1.21]

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Hey all, made a mod similar to this a long time back for beta original M&B called “Better Faction Troops”. Well, now I've made one for Warband. More specifically, for Diplomacy. I realize there's already a lot of these out there, but I did it mostly for myself. Given how much work it was I thought I should release it anyway. Below is a list of changes, followed by the changes to the units themselves. Before I list them though, I'll say this mod works (and has been balanced to the best of my ability) for single player campaign, single player custom battles, multiplayer with humans, and multiplayer with bots. Also, only “bug” is with the opening merchants who spawn as tourney fighters, everything else should be fine.
- Added overhand spear animation for spear and shield users.*
- Add script to make lancers switch to sidearm when dismounted or in close melee.
- Removed horses from Rhodok and Nord lords.
- Differentiated faction unit types more, while trying to keep to the feel of the original.
- Related to above, troops re-statted with encouraging teamwork in mind.
- Rebalanced all factions to be more equal, both for AI and for people.
- Increased difficulty significantly of fighting AI troops (i.e. they can be quite difficult now).
- Lowered costs and training times for raising troops, to make it more fair with how fast the AI recruits.
- Renamed faction units to give more unique semi-historical flavor.
- Regularized weapons so you know what weapon what troop will have, for better tactical planning.
- Slightly regularized gear so units have somewhat of a more uniform appearance, but not too much.
- Split troops into “regulars/peasants” (who max at level 21) and “elites/nobles” (who max at level 2:cool:.
- Attempted to make upgrade tree more sensible, or justify it with in-game culture where possible.
- Added more unit types, each faction now has 4 units plus a recruit/village base unit.
- Rebalanced AI war parties on the map to use new units.
- Removed upgrading of gear for multiplayer (is more fair this way in my personal opinion).
- Added more mercenary units and improved existing mercenary stats
- Added small amounts of mercenary units to factional armies
*Note: The new spear animation replaces the overswing for all 1H Weapons. If you don't like it, just copy the actions.txt file from Native into the mod folder you installed this into. This will set the overswing back to normal, but instead the spears will chop down with a onehand attack, which looks sort of funny but at least lets them keep two attacks with a shield.

SWADIANS
[Swadian Levy]
Swadian Levies are, as the name implies, conscript troops, generally peasants, forced into military service by their local lords. As such, they wield crossbows which require little training to make an effective weapon. Although military life is hard, many men choose to remain a levy soldier for extended periods as the potential rewards from campaigning, mostly gained from looting, often far outweigh the meager denars a Swadian serf would acquire through tilling the fields.

- Strength 9(/15), Agility 12(/1:cool:, Level 14(/21)
- Crossbows 120(/160), 1H Weapons 100(/140)
- Athletics 4(/6), Shield 4(/6), Ironflesh 2(/4), Power Strike 2(/4)
Weapons: Heavy Crossbow w/ Steel Bolts, Heater Shield, Short Arming Sword
Gear: Studded Leather Coat, Helmet with Cap (/Segmented Helmet), Leather Gloves, Ankle Boots (/Leather Boots)
Upgrades to: Swadian Veteran Levy (stats after slash above) or Swadian Sergeant

[Swadian Man-at-Arms]
Swadian Men-at-Arms are non-noble, professional soldiers. They are well-trained and decently equipped but do not hold land or title as knights. Some are from the wealthy merchant class who can afford better armor or a horse, some are from families who used to but no longer hold noble rank, and others are former mercenaries who now serve Swadia as regular troops. These men wield hunting crossbows atop fast horses and serve various military roles for their kingdom; from auxillary troops, to skirmishers, to scouts.

- Strength 9(/15), Agility 12(/1:cool:, Level 14(/21)
- Crossbows 120(/160), 1H Weapons 100(/140)
- Riding 4(/6), Horse Archery 4(/6), Ironflesh (2/4), Power Strike (2/4)
Weapons: Light Crossbow w/ Steel Bolts, Horseman's Heater Shield, Long Arming Sword
Gear: Hunter Horse, Light Mail and Plate, Helmet with Cap (/Segmented Helmet), Leather Gloves, Ankle Boots (/Leather Boots)
Upgrades to: Swadian Veteran Man-at-Arms (stats after slash above) or Swadian Knight

[Swadian Sergeant]
Swadian Sergeants make up the armed attendants or officers of the Swadian army. Though rarely ever noble themselves, they often serve as the guards or retinue of noblemen. They are usually recruited from the ranks of men who have proven themselves in the levies. As such, they are often entrusted with commanding infantry on the battlefield. Though quite powerful with their heavy armor and long greatswords, especially at cutting swathes through enemy footmen, but they require support to avoid being shot down by ranged troops or run over by horsemen.

- Strength 18(/24), Agility 15(/21), Level 21(/2:cool:
- 2H Weapons 160(/180), 1H Weapons 140(/160)
- Power Strike 6(/:cool:, Ironflesh 6(/:cool:, Athletics 4(/6), Weapon Master 4(/6)
Weapons: Sword of War
Gear: Coat of Plates, Guard Helmet (/Great Helmet), Mail Mittens (/Gauntlets), Iron Greaves
Upgrades to: Swadian Veteran Sergeant (stats after slash above)

[Swadian Knight]
Swadian Knights are the warrior-nobles of the Kingdom of Swadia. They ride atop heavy chargers and wield long lances as their primary weapon, making them devastating when charging on the battlefield, whether against opposing cavalry or infantry. As befits men of pride, they often sport various heraldic insignia in battle, to indicate their chivalrous lineage and to both intimidate their foes as well as to aid them in seeking out worthy ones to do battle with. As skilled on foot with their arming swords as on horseback with their lances, these men are elites and often feared and respected by their enemies.

- Strength 15(/21), Agility 18(/24), Level 21(/2:cool:
- Polearms 160(/180), 1H Weapons 140(/160)
- Riding 6(/:cool:, Shield 6(/:cool:, Power Strike 4(/6), Ironflesh 4(/6)
Weapons: Great Lance, Horseman's Heater Shield, Arming Sword (24p)
Gear: Charger Horse, Heraldic Mail with Tabard, Guard Helmet (/Great Helmet), Mail Mittens (/Gauntlets), Iron Greaves
Upgrades to: Swadian Veteran Knight (stats after slash above)


VAEGIRS
[Vaegir Voi]
Vaegir Voi are tribal levies drawn up for war. While draftees, the Vaegir tradition of archery means these troops are quite skilled with their bows and should not be underestimated. As it is possible, although rare, to be granted noble status through war in Vaegir society these men are also quite hungry to distinguish themselves on the field of battle, in hopes that by doing so they can be granted ownership of their own land rather than having to go back to working on someone else's. Unlike most peasant soldiers, Vaegir Voi are best used as support troops and should not be wasted as fodder.

- Strength 12(/1:cool:, Agility 9(/15), Level 14(/21)
- Archery 120(/160), 1H Weapons 100(/140)
- Power Draw (4/6), Power Strike (4/6), Athletics (2/4), Shield 2(/4)
Weapons: Long Bow w/ Bodkin Arrows, Kite Shield, Hand Axe
Gear: Lamellar Vest, Spiked Cap (/Helmet with Lamellar Guard), Leather Gloves, Hide Boots (/Nomad Boots)
Upgrades to: Vaegir Veteran Voi (stats after slash above) or Vaegir Dvor

[Vaegir Peshts]
Vaegir Peshsti are the axe-wielding, semi-professional foot soldiers of the Vaegir Kingdom. Unlike the Voi, these men are expected to close with the enemy and towards that end they carry heavier shields and wear heavier armor. Used by a skillful commander, they can even hold their ground against elite foot soldiers and guard units, although they are still quite weak to enemy cavalry. Some Pehsts are nobles who prefer to fight on foot, but most are drawn from the hereditary warrior class of Vaegir society, being above the peasantry but less than the gentry.

- Strength 12(/1:cool:, Agility 9(/15), Level 14(/21)
- 1H Weapons 120(/160), 2H Weapons 100(/140)
- Power Strike 4(/6), Ironflesh 4(/6), Shield 2(/4), Athletics 2(/4)
Weapons: One Handed War Axe, Heavy Kite Shield
Gear: Lamellar Armor, Spiked Cap (/Helmet with Lamellar Guard), Leather Gloves, Hide Boots (/Nomad Boots)
Upgrades to: Vaegir Veteran Peshts (stats after slash above) or Vaegir Varyag

[Vaegir Varyag]
Vaegir Varyagi were originally foreign troops, Nords to be specific, drawn into the Vaegir King's guard to protect his life; the King trusting that outsiders would be less likely to attempt to usurp him than his own power-hungry nobles. These days, Varyagi are mostly Vaegirs and no longer Nords but they still maintain the same tradition of serving as the King's, and now other high-ranking lords', guardsmen as well as fufilling the role of heavy shock infantry on the battlefield with their long, devastating bardiches.

- Strength 18(/24), Agility 15(/21), Level 21(/2:cool:
- 2H Weapons 160(/180), 1H Weapons 140(/160)
- Ironflesh 6(/:cool:, Power Strike 6(/:cool:, Athletics 4(/6), Weapon Master 4(/6)
Weapons: Great Bardiche
Gear: Scale Armor, Vaegir Noblemen Helmet (/Vaegir War Helmet), Scale Gauntlets, Mail Chausses (/Mail Boots; 31)
Upgrades to: Vaegir Veteran Varyag (stats after slash above)

[Vaegir Dvor]
Vaegir Dvori are the remnants of an older Vaegir custom of lesser nobleman serving as the retinue of higher ranking nobleman on the field of battle. Dvori are still noblemen presently, but they form regular cavalry regiments now which are more formally organized to match their opposition, particularly the Swadians. They still do, however, keep with the old tradition of cavalry throwing javelins from horseback before closing with the charge. Though they lack lances, they are more versatile than most heavy cavalry because of this and their use of a long axe from horseback for melee makes them very capable of punching through any enemy armor or shields as well.

- Strength 15(/21), Agility 18(/24), Level 21(/2:cool:
- 1H Weapons 160(/180), Throwing 140(/160)
- Riding 6(/:cool:, Horse Archery 6(/:cool:, Power Strike 4(/6), Power Throw 4(/6)
Weapons: War Darts, Horseman's Kite Shield, Fighting Axe
Gear: Vaegir Elite Armor, Vaegir Noblemen Helmet (/Vaegir War Helmet), Scale Gauntlets, Mail Chausses (/Mail Boots; 31)
Upgrades to: Vaegir Veteran Dvor (stats after slash above)


KHERGITS
[Khergit Bool]
Khergits Bools are indentured servants of the Khergits pressed into military service. Often this can be criminals, captured prisoners, men who owe debts, or some who are simply born into it. Despite their lowly status, the Khergit skill with bows means they are trained well for their role as support units on the battlefield, which they perform quite a well at. They should however, be kept far away from melee if possible, although many Khergit Noyans are not above using their Bools as distractions or for cover.

- Strength 12(/1:cool:, Agility 9(/15), Level 14(/21)
- Archery 120(/160), 1H Weapons 100(/140)
- Power Strike 4(/6), Power Draw 4(/6), Athletics 2(/4), Shield 2(/4)
Weapons: War Bow; 18p w/ Khergit Arrows, Plain Cavalry Shield, Heavy Sabre
Gear: Khergit Lamellar Vest, Khergit War Helmet (/Khergit Helmet), Leather Gloves, Hide Boots (/Nomad Boots)
Upgrades to: Khergit Veteran Bool (stats after slash above) or Khergit Keshig

[Khergit Albat]
Khergit Albats are drawn from the peasantry of the Khergits, although Albats are peasants whose role it is to fill the lower ranks of the hordes, rather than till the fields, in the heavily martial culture of the Khanate. Unlike Bools, they are considered full members of the tribes, although they are still far beneath Yazgurs in status. Nevertheless, their prowess with both bow and horse makes them the most famed and feared light cavalrymen in all of Calradia, and for good reason, due to their frequent skilled use of hit-and-run tactics.

- Strength 9(/15), Agility 12(/1:cool:, Level 14(/21)
- Archery 120(/160), 1H Weapons 100(/140)
- Riding 4(/6), Horse Archery 4(/6), Power Strike 1(/4), Power Draw 3(/4)
Weapons: Strong Bow w/ Khergit Arrows, Plain Cavalry Shield, Nomad Sabre
Gear: Nomad Robe, Khergit War Helmet (/Khergit Helmet), Leather Gloves, Hide Boots (/Nomad Boots), Sarranid Horse [renamed to Nomad Horse]
Upgrades to: Khergit Veteran Albat (stats after slash above) or Khergit Yazgur

[Khergit Keshig]
Khergit Keshigs are styled the “imperial guard” of the Khergit Noyans as well as the Khan himself. As they must protect their lieges in day to day matters as well as on the field of battle, they are trained to fight primarily on foot, but with long hafted blade weapons useful against both infantry and mounted opponents. A Keshig is somewhat similar to a Bool in being regarded primarily as a servant, indeed many Keshigs were once Bools, although they have considerably more status than Bools in actuality. In fact, almost as much as the noblemen they protect.

- Strength 18(/24), Agility 15(/21), Level 21(/2:cool:
- Polearms 160(/180), 2H Weapons 140(/160)
- Power Strike 6(/:cool:, Ironflesh 6(/:cool:, Athletics 4(/6), Weapon Master 4(/6)
Weapons: Hafted Blade; 39c
Gear: Khergit Elite Armor, Khergit Cavalry Helmet (/Khergit Guard Helmet), Lamellar Gauntlets, Khergit Leather Boots (/Khergit Guard Boots)
Upgrades to: Khergit Veteran Keshig (stats after slash above)

[Khergit Yazgur]
Khergit Yazgurs, from the Khergit word for “root”, are the ruling class among the steppe hordes. Along with their “lessers”, the Albats, they are other half of the reason why Khergits have a reputation for being master horsemen. While Albats are primarily skirmishers however, Yazgurs instead fight on well barded steppe chargers in heavy armor and rush directly into the enemy with their lances when battle opens; a tactic which is quite simple but nevertheless devastating to their enemies. After their initial charge, they mop up what's left wielding their scimitars. The only mercy they show to their foes is when sparing their lives only to later make them Bools.

- Strength 15(/21), Agility 18(/24), Level 21(/2:cool:
- Polearms 160(/180), 1H Weapons 140(/160)
- Riding 6(/:cool:, Shield 6(/:cool:, Ironflesh 4(/6), Power Strike 4(/6)
Weapons:  Heavy Lance; 26p, Elite Cavalry Shield, Scimitar
Gear: Khergit Guard Armor, Khergit Cavalry Helmet (/Khergit Guard Helmet), Lamellar Gauntlets, Khergit Leather Boots (/Khergit Guard Boots), Steppe Charger Horse
Upgrades to: Khergit Veteran Yazgur (stats after slash above)


NORDS
[Nord Lithsman]
Nord Lithsmen are composed of men drawn up during the “leidang”, a sort of levy created for purposes of raiding, but with the notable exception that most of these men are actually volunteers. When Nords first arrived in Calrdia, Lithsmen were almost exclusively “marine” type troops, landing on shores in longboats and disembarking to loot and pillage before retreating back to their ships before enemy forces could arrive. As such, they generally carried crossbows for long range attacks, or even shooting from their ships, and, while no longer marines, still retain them for this purpose. They are useful skirmishers, and not too bad in melee either, although they shouldn't be expected to hold a line alone.

- Strength 9(/15), Agility 12(/1:cool:, Level 14(/21)
- Crossbows 120(/160), 1H Weapons 100(/120)
- Shield 4(/6), Athletics 4(/6), Power Strike 2(/4), Ironflesh 2(/4)
Weapons: Crossbow; 49p w/ Steel Bolts, Nordic Shield, Nordic Short Sword
Gear: Mail Shirt, Nordic Fighter Helmet (/Nordic Helmet), Leather Gloves, Leather Boots (/Splinted Leather Greaves)
Upgrades to: Nord Veteran Lithsman (stats after slash above) or Nord Hirdman

[Nord Hereman]
Nord Heremen, simply meaning “armymen”, is the term used to refer to any standard Nord infantry soldier which, in Nord society, is technically any able-bodied freeman. Heremen differ from Lithsmen in generally being older or more experienced, being semi-professional rather than irregulars, and expected to form the bulk of the main battle line rather than raid or skirmish. They fight in an old-fashioned style, with throwing and fighting spears, yet they are still quite effective, especially when enmassed and forming up a strong spear wall, which Nord commanders appreciate greatly as their armies lack regular cavalry.

- Strength 12(/1:cool:, Agility 9(/15), Level 14(/21)
- Throwing 120(/160), Polearms 100(/140)
- Power Strike 4(/6), Power Throw 4(/6), Ironflesh 2(/4), Athletics 2(/4)
Weapons: Javelins (2x), Huscarl's Round Shield, War Spear
Gear: Mail Hauberk, Nordic Fighter Helmet (/Nordic Helmet), Leather Gloves, Leather Boots (/Splinted Leather Greaves)
Upgrades to: Nord Veteran Hereman (stats after slash above) or Nord Landsman

[Nord Hirdman]
Nord Hirdmen are men of the “hird”, which is the personal retinue of a jarl. Unlike Landsmen, they are not necessarily nobles. Any man who proves himself in war, or occassionally even in personal duels, maybe be recruited into the hird. Most commonly Lithsmen who prove successful on multiple raids are drawn into their ranks. Hirdmen wield terrifying long axes in close combat, for which they are renowned, but can also present quite a threat at range, due to their skill at throwing smaller axes, which at one time was used to determine the length of land a man owned among Nords by measuring how far a warrior could toss one.

- Strength 18(/24), Agility 15(/21), Level 21(/2:cool:
- 2H Weapons 160(/180), Throwing 140(/160)
- Power Strike 6(/:cool:, Power Throw 6(/:cool:, Ironflesh 4(/6), Athletics 4(/6)
Weapons: Long War Axe; 2H, Nordic Shield, Throwing Axes
Gear: Cuir Bouilli, Nordic Huscarl's Helmet (/Nordic Warlord Helmet), Mail Mittens, Mail Boots; 31 (/Plate Boots)
Upgrades to: Nord Veteran Hirdman (stats after slash above)

[Nord Landsman]
Nord Landsmen, or “landed men”, are the landholding nobles of Nord society. As befits their wealth, they wear heavy banded armor, carry large and strong round shields, and wield well-made battle axes. Among Nords, status must, traditionally, be backed up by deeds of bravery and so Nord nobles, unlike almost every other nation, fight on foot amongst their men. This often boosts army morale and creates a feeling of comradery where there would normally be resentment between men of different social rank.

- Strength 18(/24), Agility 15(/21), Level 21(/2:cool:
- 1H Weapons 160(/180), 2H Weapons 140(/160)
- Power Strike 6(/:cool:, Ironflesh 6(/:cool:, Athletics 4(/6), Shield 4(/6)
Weapons: One Handed Battle Axe; 37c, Huscarl's Round Shield
Gear: Banded Armor, Nordic Huscarl's Helmet (/Nordic Warlord Helmet), Mail Mittens, Mail Boots; 31 (/Plate Boots)
Upgrades to: Nord Veteran Landsman (stats after slash above)


RHODOKS
[Rhodok Militia]
Rhodoks, being a nation which exists in rebellion against the imperialistic Swadians, do not conscript their citizens. All men of age are expected, however, to serve in local militias which fufill policing and town guard roles. Often in war during defense against an invading force the militias are called up to battle alongside the regular army. As of late however, more and more militia units are called to go on campaign as well, their services as skilled crossbowmen being needed by various Rhodok lords looking to expand their lands under a pretense of “pre-emptive defense”.

- Strength 9(/15), Agility 12(/1:cool:, Level 14(/21)
- Crossbows 120(/160), 1H Weapons 100(/140)
- Athletics 4(/6), Shield 4(/6), Power Strike 2(/4), Ironflesh 2(/4)
Weapons: Heavy Crossbow w/ Steel Bolts, Board Shield, Sword; 28c
Gear: Byrnie, Flat-Topped Helmet (/Kettle Hat), Leather Gloves, Leather Boots (/Splinted Leather Greaves)
Upgrades to: Rhodok Veteran Militia (stats after slash above) or Rhodok Landser

[Rhodok Regular]
Rhodok Regulars are, as the name indicates, the regular soldiers of the Rhodok army. As these men are all volunteers their morale is slightly higher than some other nation's regular infantry, although as the Rhodoks lack a tradition of martial culture they are maybe not quite as skilled individually. They make up for this, however, by utilizing group tactics to create famous, or infamous depending on which side one is on, shield walls with their large pavises from which the tips of their long awlpikes bristle out of like the sharp hairs of a hedgehog. From the rear of these tight formations they fling their javelins, which presents a deadly threat to foes, especially cavalry, which the Rhodoks themselves lack.

- Strength 12(/1:cool:, Agility 9(/15), Level 14(/21)
- Throwing 120(/160), Polearms 100(/140)
- Power Throw 4(/6), Power Strike 4(/6), Athletics 2(/4), Ironflesh 2(/4)
Weapons: Throwing Spears (2x), Heavy Board Shield, Long Awlpike
Gear: Haubergeon, Flat-Topped Helmet (/Kettle Hat), Leather Gloves, Leather Boots (/Splinted Leather Greaves)
Upgrades to: Rhodok Veteran Regular (stats after slash above) or Rhodok Guard

[Rhodok Landser]
Landsers, short for landservants, were originally mercenaries hailing from Rhodok held lands before it was an independent nation. They now instead hire their services out to Rhodok lords. Sometimes they may work for foreign kingdoms, but primarily they serve their fellow Rhodoks as heavy infantry with their long halberds, or poleaxes. They are also armed with heavy throwing axes which they use for both softening up the enemy before a push-of-polearms ensues or to hack at said weapons if engaged in very close range.

- Strength 18(/24), Agility 15(/21), Level 21(/2:cool:
- Polearms 160(/180), Throwing 140(/160)
- Power Strike 6(/:cool:, Power Throw 6(/:cool:, Ironflesh 4(/6), Athletics 4(/6)
Weapons: Poleaxe, Board Shield, Heavy Throwing Axes
Gear: Mail with Surcoat, Bascinet with Aventail (/Full Helm), Mail Mittens, Mail Chausses (/Mail Boots; 31)
Upgrades to: Rhodok Veteran Landser (stats after slash above)

[Rhodok Guard]
Before the Kingdom of Rhodok was such, Rhodok Guards were elite men who served in the courts of foreign lands as king's guardsmen. Usually, and ironically, this was their current enemies the Swadians. Presently, they serve the lords of their own nation instead in such a role. They have also switched from wielding larger two-handed falchions to slightly smaller one-handed ones in order that they may carry a heavy board shield like the rest of the Rhodok army. This is so that they can better fill out the pike-and-shield formations their kingdom's armies most commonly employ, as with the present conflicts in Calradia Rhodok Guards are often called to open war by their lieges.

- Strength 18(/24), Agility 15(/21), Level 21(/2:cool:
- 1H Weapons 160(/180), 2H Weapons 140(/160)
- Power Strike 6(/:cool:, Ironflesh 6(/:cool:, Athletics 4(/6), Shield 4(/6)
Weapons: Military Cleaver, Heavy Board Shield
Gear: Brigandine, Bascinet with Aventail (/Full Helm), Mail Mittens, Mail Chausses (/Mail Boots; 31)
Upgrades to: Rhodok Veteran Guard (stats after slash above)


SARRANIDS
[Sarranid Hadath]
Sarranid Ahdath are drafted levies of the Sarranid armies. As many Sarranid commoners are familiar with the use of the bow, they make quite decent ranged troops despite their status. Still, as they are not professional, much less entirely willing, their morale cannot hold in extended close combat. This is true moreso as they are lightly armored, yet this same fact makes them able to move quickly on the battlefield. In fact, they are generally the fastest moving infantry on most battlefields and an army who has to face many Ahdath without any cavalry may find itself shot down by peasant arrows before it can even engage.

- Strength 12(/1:cool:, Agility 9(/15), Level 14(/21)
- Archery 120(/160), 1H Weapons 100(/140)
- Power Draw 4(/6), Power Strike 4(/6), Athletics 2(/4), Shield 2(/4)
Weapons: Khergit Bow [renamed to Recurve Bow] w/ Bodkin Arrows, Round Shield, Sarranid Sword
Gear: Sarranid Leather Armor, Horseman Helmet (/Sarranid Keffiyeh Helmet), Leather Gloves, Sarranid Leather Boots (/Plated Boots)
Upgrades to: Sarranid Veteran Hadath (stats after slash above) or Sarranid Mamluk

[Sarranid Mutawwa']
Sarranid Mutawwa'in are volunteer troops, usually roused to battle by religious or national fervor. In peacetime, some Mutawwa' perform “police”-type duties, which generally means enforcing traditional or tribal law as they see fit. On the field of battle they make useful fast and light footmen able to pepper heavier and slower enemies with their armor-piercing jarid before closing. Their uncommonly high morale can be both an asset to a Sarranid commander but also, sometimes, a liability as men such as these are prone to charge wildly without orders in a frenzy of bloodlust.

- Strength 12(/1:cool:, Agility 9(/15), Level 14(/21)
- Throwing 120(/160), 1H Weapons 100(/140)
- Power Throw 4(/6), Power Strike 4(/6), Athletics 2(/4), Shield 2(/4)
Weapons: Jarid, Heavy Round Shield, Sarranid Guard Sword
Gear: Sarranid Mail Shirt, Horseman Helmet (/Sarranid Keffiyeh Helmet), Leather Gloves, Sarranid Leather Boots (/Plated Boots)
Upgrades to: Sarranid Veteran Mutawwa' (stats after slash above) or Sarranid Tabardariya

[Sarranid Mamluk]
Sarranid Mamluks occupy a peculiar position in Sarranid society, on the one hand being slave soldiers and on the other elite units. A Mamluk often lives well enough, as his expensive horse and armor attests to, although he has no choice about how to live, being destined for a life of arms and arms alone. Most Mamluks, however, have no desire to live any other way regardless, as from childhood they are instilled with the warrior mentality and told of their glorious military heritage as a Mamluk. This early “instruction” is confirmed, to them at least but also many others, as the truth when they set out to war, for they often far outperform almost every other type of troop in battle.

- Strength 15(/21), Agility 18(/24), Level 21(/2:cool:
- 1H Weapons 160(/180), Polearms 140(/160)
- Riding 6(/:cool:, Shield 6(/:cool:, Power Strike 4(/6), Ironflesh 4(/6)
Weapons: Elite Scimitar, Heavy Round Shield
Gear: Mamluk Mail, Sarranid Mail Coif (/Sarranid Veiled Helmet), Scale Gauntlets, Splinted Greaves (/Sarranid Mail Boots), Sarranian War Horse

[Sarranid Tabardaryia]
Sarranid Tabardariya take their name from the weapon they carry, the Sarranid Battle Axe, called a “tabar” by the Sarranids themselves. They compete with the Mamluks for the honor of being considered the most elite troops in the Sarranid armies, a contest which is certainly a close match given the prowess of these powerful men. Indeed, such is their skill and strength, that Tabardariya are, when not on campaign, tasked with guarding the lives of the Emirs at home in their palaces. Many Emirs also use their Tabardariya to compete with one another after a manner as well, by boasting who has the best and most famous under their service.

- Strength 18(/24), Agility 15(/21), Level 21(/2:cool:
- 2H Weapons 160(/180), 1H Weapons 140(/160)
- Power Strike 6(/:cool:, Ironflesh 6(/:cool:, Athletics 4(/6), Weapon Master 4(/6)
Weapons: Sarranid Battle Axe
Gear: Sarranid Elite Armor, Sarranid Mail Coif (/Sarranid Veiled Helmet), Scale Gauntlets, Splinted Greaves (/Sarranid Mail Boots)
Upgrades to: Sarranid Veteran Tabardariya (stats after slash above)

__________
 

Sir Missesalot

Regular
Best answers
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Note: The new spear animation replaces the overswing for all 1H Weapons. If you don't like it, just copy the actions.txt file from Native into the mod folder you installed this into. This will set the overswing back to normal, but instead the spears will chop down with a onehand attack, which looks sort of funny but at least lets them keep two attacks with a shield.
 

Cepheiden

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WB
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It was a good decision to release this. Thats much how I would have modded all the troops. However, after I noticed how much time troop modding takes, I couldnt be bothered to continue.

After looking at your troop discriptions and stats, they seem to be balanced, without losing too much of their faction specific features.
Not adding mounted troops to rhodoks / nords is exactly the way to go imo. They just dont feel right with mounted troops.
Also luckily there are no ninjas, samurais or ridiculous amounts of plate wearers and other unbalanced stuff.
Vaegir Varyags, for example, also fit their faction extremely well.

I also take it, that you reduced the amount of troop tiers? A troop tree would be helpful.
As I see it now, you reduced the troop trees to those 4 + their veteran form + 1 recruit type. This is probably the best change, as it allows to have an army, that is on a uniform performance level, without consisting of uber tier troops.


However, there are a few things that seem off.

First of all, I think the troop stats might be a bit too equal. While their equipment might be different, the same troop types always got the same stats and thus reducing their faction defining features.
For example, all your foot archer type troops got the same amount of strength, agility, primary weapon proficiency... and the same goes for all the other types. So, for example, right now it wouldnt matter if I had the vaegir, sarranid or khergit archers, since they would all perform the same - in other words you made all foot archers exchangeable.
I know that their might be other opinions on this, but I would suggest adding in some small faction specific differences here.
For example, giving nords a bit more strength or irfonflesh, khergits a bit more agility or horse archery, vaegirs a bit more bow proficiency or rhodoks some more crossbow proficiency and so on. Im only talking about something like 1 additional skill point, 2 - 3 additional stat points, 5 - 10 additional proficiency.
That way, every faction would have something, they would excel in once again, even if only by a bit.

Next thing would be, the amount of archery profiency for your horse archers. Its the same as for the food archers, however npc horse archer dont hit anything with that kind of low archery ability. Did you already do some testing on this?


I also like that script that makes lancers switch to their sidearms. Could you post that?

 

Sir Missesalot

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It was a good decision to release this. Thats much how I would have modded all the troops. However, after I noticed how much time troop modding takes, I couldnt be bothered to continue.
Yeah, I almost quit myself but I was already about half way through before I realized just how much work it was.

After looking at your troop discriptions and stats, they seem to be balanced, without losing too much of their faction specific features.
Not adding mounted troops to rhodoks / nords is exactly the way to go imo. They just dont feel right with mounted troops.
Also luckily there are no ninjas, samurais or ridiculous amounts of plate wearers and other unbalanced stuff.
Vaegir Varyags, for example, also fit their faction extremely well.
Thanks, that was definitely one of the things I was aiming for, as lots of other troop balance mods just give the rhodoks and nords cavalry to 'fix' them.

I also take it, that you reduced the amount of troop tiers? A troop tree would be helpful.
As I see it now, you reduced the troop trees to those 4 + their veteran form + 1 recruit type. This is probably the best change, as it allows to have an army, that is on a uniform performance level, without consisting of uber tier troops.
All troop trees go like this:

-Recruit/Tribesmen
- "Peasant" Troop 1    OR - "Peasant" Troop 2
  - Veteran "Peasant" Troop 1 OR "Noble" Troop 1 - Veteran "Peasant" Troop 2 OR "Noble Troop 2
- Veteran "Noble" Troop 1 - Veteran "Noble" Troop 2

With Levels like this:
-7
- 14  OR -14
  -21 OR 21   - 21 OR 21
  -28     -28

However, there are a few things that seem off.

First of all, I think the troop stats might be a bit too equal. While their equipment might be different, the same troop types always got the same stats and thus reducing their faction defining features.

For example, all your foot archer type troops got the same amount of strength, agility, primary weapon proficiency... and the same goes for all the other types. So, for example, right now it wouldnt matter if I had the vaegir, sarranid or khergit archers, since they would all perform the same - in other words you made all foot archers exchangeable.
That's kind of the only way to balance it with the bots though unfortunately. For human players, slight differences in skill or different weapon speeds etc. matter more, because human players will pick and fight in a certain style. Bots however, all fight the same way, which means any stat difference between them won't necessarily help them to take advantage of fighting in a different fashion, they will just be weaker than another similar troop type whose stats fit the AI better, if that makes sense. For example, giving one basic infantry unit, say the Sarranid Mutawwa', higher Athletics but lower Ironflesh, will just make them flat out weaker than another faction's, because the AI isn't clever enough to exploit superior foot speed, only its HP really matters. This is also why I tried to keep the armor in similar protection/weight ratios for troops of same level, that could still make aesthetic sense for their faction, but balance still isn't perfect here, because a troop with higher armor will generally beat a troop with lower armor but who moves faster, unless a human player intervenes to command.

I know that their might be other opinions on this, but I would suggest adding in some small faction specific differences here.
For example, giving nords a bit more strength or irfonflesh, khergits a bit more agility or horse archery, vaegirs a bit more bow proficiency or rhodoks some more crossbow proficiency and so on. Im only talking about something like 1 additional skill point, 2 - 3 additional stat points, 5 - 10 additional proficiency.
That way, every faction would have something, they would excel in once again, even if only by a bit.
I might try this, but I have two theories on it: 1) A human player wouldn't notice only 1 point differences and/or 2) as above, a one point difference in stats for bots could actually weaken or strength them overmuch.

Next thing would be, the amount of archery profiency for your horse archers. Its the same as for the food archers, however npc horse archer dont hit anything with that kind of low archery ability. Did you already do some testing on this?
Actually, they hit things more than most human horse archers would with an even higher proficiency in my experience. AI Aiming in this game is really strong. You do have a point in a way though, in that, while they hit things, they don't hurt them much at all. It's hard to balance horse archers though because people tend to find them very annoying. In reality, that was entirely their purpose, to harass people so they break formation but people don't like to be annoyed in a game. There's also the problem that if you make them too good of a shot, no one bothers with foot archers, simply going all horse archer and ordering a dismount if needed.


I also like that script that makes lancers switch to their sidearms. Could you post that?
That scipt is here: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?topic=128605.15 . There are three there, I used Xeno's.

You have some good points here though and since I have some time today, I think I'm going to try to fix a few things. For one, I think the Vaegirs are too strong. Like I said, for AI bots the armor protection makes a huge difference and their faction's armor types tend to be high. I think I might try giving them weaker gloves, helmets, boots, etc. to hopefully even it out without having to take away their vaegir body armors. Also I do think the horse archers need an improvement, and perhaps archers/crossbowmen in general.

 

Sir Missesalot

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Made a quick, little patch today. Can re-download whole file from link in first load the the repository or just go to zshare link here: http://www.zshare.net/download/811289936a9d657d/
...and paste contents of extracted file into the BFT2 modules folder for M&B.

PATCH 1.1 Changes
-Gave all crossbowmen better crossbows (see stats)
-Gave all bowmen better bows (see stats)
-Give all archers bodkins, except khergits who use khergit arrows
-Give albats sarranid horses (but renamed to nomad horse)
-Upgrade nords elites to plate boots and gave landsman slightly better axe
-Downgrade vaegir elites to mail boots and weaker helmets

I went with changing equipment to try to balance a bit better, as changing skills and proficiencies doesn't seem to be savegame compatible.

Also note, you might want to turn ranged friendly fire off if you're using bots in MP as the rhodoks and nords often hit each other with their throwing weapons, making them weaker to other factions than they should be.
 

freyj

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Nice pictures and discussions. It's good to see diplomacy-specific troop mods.

I don't necessarily agree with the design philosophy though:

1) I think it's OK to have same tier troop of different factions to be of different strength. Rhodok can have the strongest ranged units to make them dominate siege defenses, while Swadia can have the strongest cavalry to make them dominate open field battles. Nord can have the best infantry. That's the flavor of each faction. As a result, it's OK that Rhodok infantry of same tier is weaker than Nord, or Swadia sharpshooter is weaker than Rhodok ones. In summary, I'd say what we really want is over all circumstances (open field, siege attack, siege defend) and over all troops (infantry, cavalry, ranged), all factions are sort of balanced, but not absolute balance in all circumstances or at the individual troop level. The latter is just boring.

2) Given the argument in 1), I'd say I don't see why Rhodok and Nord cannot have cavalry. Having no cavalry just means that the cavalry part of the Rhodok and Nord troop portfolio is weaker than weak, and I have no problem against improving them on cavalry part a little bit, that is, from none to weak. Or at least keep the horse of Rhodok and Nord lords. It's just strange to force feudal lords to always fight on foot.

Finally, I am not *****ing or indicating that you have to listen to me. No, you don't. However, I can also honestly say that although I greatly like the nice pics, I won't consider using this mod unless you can at least give horse back to the poor Rhodok and Nord lords.  :smile:
 

Sir Missesalot

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[1) I think it's OK to have same tier troop of different factions to be of different strength. Rhodok can have the strongest ranged units to make them dominate siege defenses, while Swadia can have the strongest cavalry to make them dominate open field battles. Nord can have the best infantry. That's the flavor of each faction. As a result, it's OK that Rhodok infantry of same tier is weaker than Nord, or Swadia sharpshooter is weaker than Rhodok ones. In summary, I'd say what we really want is over all circumstances (open field, siege attack, siege defend) and over all troops (infantry, cavalry, ranged), all factions are sort of balanced, but not absolute balance in all circumstances or at the individual troop level. The latter is just boring.
I see what your'e saying, but there's a few problems with that in Mount and Blade:
1) SP-wise, having one faction with much better archers but weaker cav and another with strong cav but weak archers means, once again because of how the AI is on its own, that the faction with better cav will win almost every time but siege battles (whether auto-calculated or played out). There wouldn't be a way to make the faction with stronger cav not win against the AI without making their cav actually not strong or making archery basically 1-shot a barded warhorse or plate armored knight-which is way too strong. Plus, even though it's not true, many people already think ranged is too powerful because psychologically it's aggravating to take damage without having any way to return it.

2) MP-wise, if you want to play an archer, and one faction has unilaterally better archers, you're gonna be irked if you get stuck with the faction with crappy archers. Hence there would likely be arguing or whining about faction choice, or mods would always just pick two factions who have equal type units anyways. If this was more RPG-type game or more strategy-type game I'd agree with you but, unfortunately IMO, M&B is just basically a twitch game with a couple of nods to LARPers and Total War fans. Warband particularly is basically another (mostly online) fighting game-the vast majority of people ignore tactics and roles that would make varying unit strengths/weaknesses work.

3) I seriously doubt anyone would even notice if I didn't make the stat changes public. They'd probably think one unit did have better stats if it looked like it outperformed another of similar type and just make up differntiations in their head. I think some are seeing all the numbers look the same in this thread and getting disappointed. Maybe I should have kept them hidden but people then wouldn't want to download it anyway because I wouldn't be telling them what I changed. *shrug* Not really wanting a huge debate about it, I mean if someone doesn't agree with the design philosophy I'd say they should just use Pike and Blade or one of the other lord knows how many troop mods.

Anyway, if the only thing stopping you personally is that you want Rhodok/Nord lords to have their horses back, I can stick up a troops.txt file that has them for you. Just let me know if that's really all you want and I'll go ahead and do that.
 

freyj

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Thanks for the quick response. Comments inline below.

Sir Missesalot said:
1) SP-wise, having one faction with much better archers but weaker cav and another with strong cav but weak archers means, once again because of how the AI is on its own, that the faction with better cav will win almost every time but siege battles (whether auto-calculated or played out). There wouldn't be a way to make the faction with stronger cav not win against the AI without making their cav actually not strong or making archery basically 1-shot a barded warhorse or plate armored knight-which is way too strong. Plus, even though it's not true, many people already think ranged is too powerful because psychologically it's aggravating to take damage without having any way to return it.
Have you read the python code of auto-calc? M&B doesn't really simulate the real battle process in auto-calc. As a result, if you don't personally lead the battle, Rodhok troops will fight Swadia troops without any problem in an auto-calc open field pitched battle, even though if you lead the battle personally Rodhok will have a catastrophic defeat.

For the battles you do lead, the right way to go is to choose your battle field to fit the strength of your troop. If you read the single player board often enough, you'll see that people say as Rodhok, you want to avoid open field pitched battle as much as you can, and always fight in towns and castles. For Swadia you do the opposite. For Kerghits you utilize your high movement speed to attack weak lords and run from strong ones. That's the fun part of the single player campaign. If you make all troops balanced, well, then the fun of these strategies just disappears.

Sir Missesalot said:
2) MP-wise, if you want to play an archer, and one faction has unilaterally better archers, you're gonna be irked if you get stuck with the faction with crappy archers. Hence there would likely be arguing or whining about faction choice, or mods would always just pick two factions who have equal type units anyways. If this was more RPG-type game or more strategy-type game I'd agree with you but, unfortunately IMO, M&B is just basically a twitch game with a couple of nods to LARPers and Total War fans. Warband particularly is basically another (mostly online) fighting game-the vast majority of people ignore tactics and roles that would make varying unit strengths/weaknesses work.
I guess this is why we have different opinions. If we are talking about MP, I am in complete agreement of your design philosophy. I know how often Kerghit players are voted out in MP games, for essentially concerns that you mentioned above.

However, compared to MP Warband, the fun of SP Warband is very similar to RPG and strategy games, and Diplomacy is particularly toward that end. Why would a MP Warband player even bother to care about sending gifts to lords, or recruiting lords, or having treaties with NPC factions? However, these things are exactly why I am excited about the Diplomacy mod. So I would say that these concerns have little relevance to this board; if much of your design decision is from these concerns, you might find Diplomacy is the wrong mod to target your design for.

Sir Missesalot said:
3) I seriously doubt anyone would even notice if I didn't make the stat changes public. They'd probably think one unit did have better stats if it looked like it outperformed another of similar type and just make up differntiations in their head. I think some are seeing all the numbers look the same in this thread and getting disappointed. Maybe I should have kept them hidden but people then wouldn't want to download it anyway because I wouldn't be telling them what I changed. *shrug* Not really wanting a huge debate about it, I mean if someone doesn't agree with the design philosophy I'd say they should just use Pike and Blade or one of the other lord knows how many troop mods.
You can be assured that I am not disappointed because of the numbers. Well, I am not even disappointed. The fact is that I have tried enough of these troop mods, including Pike and Blade, only to find that their troops are largely unbalanced even on the whole faction level. That's bad. And for that reason I stick to Native troops only up until now.

So the bottom line is this: although I have spoken enough harsh words about the differences in our design philosophy, if I have to choose between all these troop mods, yours is the only one I would seriously consider using at this point, because apparently you care about balancing as much as flavor. Many other modders would instead say "let's add 1000 different troops and worry about balancing later", and then never spend any time balancing things. Well, I have had enough of that.

Sir Missesalot said:
Anyway, if the only thing stopping you personally is that you want Rhodok/Nord lords to have their horses back, I can stick up a troops.txt file that has them for you. Just let me know if that's really all you want and I'll go ahead and do that.
I really appreciate that. Thanks.
 

Sir Missesalot

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However, compared to MP Warband, the fun of SP Warband is very similar to RPG and strategy games, and Diplomacy is particularly toward that end. Why would a MP Warband player even bother to care about sending gifts to lords, or recruiting lords, or having treaties with NPC factions? However, these things are exactly why I am excited about the Diplomacy mod. So I would say that these concerns have little relevance to this board; if much of your design decision is from these concerns, you might find Diplomacy is the wrong mod to target your design for.
Well, here's the thing. I find in SP the battles are mostly about numbers. Even if they were not, the player always has an enormous advantage because of his ability to give tactical commands and his almost certainly superior skill over the bots. So for me, SP isn't that great for fighting (with the sole exception of giving battles context in the world), which is why I use Diplomacy mod to make it more interesting. I find I'm not even fighting all the much for most of the game anyway, except little skirmishes.

When I do like to fight a big, even battle, I load up the MP part and host a game with myself fighting with the bots. It's no fun doing this though if one side always wins because one faction's bots are equipped or handled by the AI better than another's. So, since I'm already using diplomacy I figured I'd make it compatible for that, so I don't have to run two different mods and because diplomacy seems pretty popular. Also, balancing for MP really means balancing for SP too, even if it feels to some like the units are too much the same now.

I think you just ought to try it with some MP bot battles or custom battles though. Most of the strategies you describe using are still valid here, even if the different faction units have similar stats. They don't all have the same types of units, or weapons, or gear, so Rhodoks still need to avoid open ground and Khergits still need to utilize movement, at least in my experience. So, here's the troops.txt file with the Rhodok/Nord lords you were asking for. Should work as I just copied over the native parts of the .txt about the lords back into the BFT2 file.

http://www.zshare.net/download/81135521b37ac202/

EDIT: Also feel I should add I object to the idea that all archers are now interchangeable because their statted the same. That's rather so that their equipment can be gauged better, which makes more of a difference. For instance, Vaegir Voi have slightly weaker bows and arrows than Khergit Bools. However, they have large and stronger shields as well as a shield-busting hatchet for backup, in addition to being a little bit heavier (but therefore also slower) in armor. So Bools will outperform Voi in most shootouts, however they are more vulnerable and less useful than Voi if they are sent into or get caught in melee.
 

Cepheiden

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Sir Missesalot said:
That's kind of the only way to balance it with the bots though unfortunately. For human players, slight differences in skill or different weapon speeds etc. matter more, because human players will pick and fight in a certain style. Bots however, all fight the same way, which means any stat difference between them won't necessarily help them to take advantage of fighting in a different fashion, they will just be weaker than another similar troop type whose stats fit the AI better, if that makes sense. For example, giving one basic infantry unit, say the Sarranid Mutawwa', higher Athletics but lower Ironflesh, will just make them flat out weaker than another faction's, because the AI isn't clever enough to exploit superior foot speed, only its HP really matters. This is also why I tried to keep the armor in similar protection/weight ratios for troops of same level, that could still make aesthetic sense for their faction, but balance still isn't perfect here, because a troop with higher armor will generally beat a troop with lower armor but who moves faster, unless a human player intervenes to command.


I might try this, but I have two theories on it: 1) A human player wouldn't notice only 1 point differences and/or 2) as above, a one point difference in stats for bots could actually weaken or strength them overmuch.


Actually, they hit things more than most human horse archers would with an even higher proficiency in my experience. AI Aiming in this game is really strong. You do have a point in a way though, in that, while they hit things, they don't hurt them much at all. It's hard to balance horse archers though because people tend to find them very annoying. In reality, that was entirely their purpose, to harass people so they break formation but people don't like to be annoyed in a game. There's also the problem that if you make them too good of a shot, no one bothers with foot archers, simply going all horse archer and ordering a dismount if needed.



That scipt is here: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?topic=128605.15 . There are three there, I used Xeno's.

You have some good points here though and since I have some time today, I think I'm going to try to fix a few things. For one, I think the Vaegirs are too strong. Like I said, for AI bots the armor protection makes a huge difference and their faction's armor types tend to be high. I think I might try giving them weaker gloves, helmets, boots, etc. to hopefully even it out without having to take away their vaegir body armors. Also I do think the horse archers need an improvement, and perhaps archers/crossbowmen in general.

Thanks for the script.

You are right with the thing about archers. They only had massive amounts of archery proficiency in an earlier version of m&b I was playing.

I can also understand your reasoning for equalizing the stats to this extent now. I didnt notice this, because I almost never play with bots.

I think Ill try playing a new sp game with your troops and see how it works out. Your mod also makes a good foundation for some personal customization.


But since someone brought up auto calc in sp... I think, they only calculate based on troop lvl and type? Therefor i always made a factions average troop lvl on all tiers to be equal to the other factions. I thought you were thinking about that aswell, since you made them all the same lvl.



freyj said:
2) Given the argument in 1), I'd say I don't see why Rhodok and Nord cannot have cavalry. Having no cavalry just means that the cavalry part of the Rhodok and Nord troop portfolio is weaker than weak, and I have no problem against improving them on cavalry part a little bit, that is, from none to weak. Or at least keep the horse of Rhodok and Nord lords. It's just strange to force feudal lords to always fight on foot.

Finally, I am not *****ing or indicating that you have to listen to me. No, you don't. However, I can also honestly say that although I greatly like the nice pics, I won't consider using this mod unless you can at least give horse back to the poor Rhodok and Nord lords.  :smile:
Since nobody answered why we cant have horses, Ill do that.

Each faction left some sort of image in my mind and also the minds of many other ppl.
For example:
As Sir Missesalot said, the Rhodoks are a faction, that exists in rebellion against the swadian empire. For that reason, they pulled back into the mountains. Given the nature of those mountains, horses are rather useless up there. (If you ever been on a horse in one of those mountain maps you know thats not just rp)
The swadians strongest units are knights. Equipping and training knights is expensive. So expensive, that only a rich nation like the swadians can afford it. So Rhodoks had no hope of actually coming up with comparable units. Therefore, their position in the mountains gave them the most advantage over the swadians.

As for nords, they are somewhat like viking raiders. There is no use for horses in snowy mountains and boats. (yes I know they are at a coast now, but they wont adapt that fast)

There is way more about this topic, but I just wanted to make a point, about what kind of image those factions have and that other mods basically destroy this image by adding mounted units.
(Actually making all the factions too similar by adding horses is another issue. Theres nothing special about the factions anymore, if they have every type of troop.)
 

Sir Missesalot

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One way to compromise with this would be for me to rework the mercenary troops as well to be able to match the power of the new factional units (although they will still of course be weaker overall). I could then add some mercenary units to each faction's army spawns. I'd have to do it across the board for it to make sense in the game world though. In other words, it wouldn't just be Rhodoks and Nords and only having Mercenary Cavalry.

Most likely I'd do it like this:
Mercenary Crossbowmen (or maybe javelinmen instead, as everyone has decent archers)
Mercenary Pikemen (anti-cav unit, weak for everything else)
Mercenary Infantry (basic sword and board)
Mercenary Cavalry (light lancers or perhaps mounted skirmishers, not sure here either yet)

They will statted and leveled the same as faction troops, but their armor will be weaker and they'll be less well equipped. The only thing is it wouldn't be savegame compatible I think. I don't think it would disrupt faciton unique-ness, I'd only add a few of each type to the armies, and it would at least let factions make up for completely lacking in something, although they'd still be inferior in that area. Would also make sense, RP-wise, because now only the player ever really uses mercs.
 

Sir Missesalot

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Wasn't going to bother with this anymore, but both Native and Diplomacy released a patch right after I put this out, so I used updating this mod to the latest versions as an excuse to tinker with merc units too. They now have better stats (still a tad weaker than regular troops though). Also, there's a new one in there too. Lastly, small amounts of them can appear in faction's armies. This might not entirely work with old savegames though, but it's the last I'll be changing it. No other real changes except that I put the overhand animation back to default, as it seemed to be not working well in the AI's hands (spears can still attack overhand, just no unique animation for it).

You have to re-download whole thing once again to update, extract as normal, if using same folder overwrite all old files.
http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=2291
 

Hunter7

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hello there,

I am playing Compatible with Diplomacy 3.2 and Warband patch 1.132 (BFT2).
And i works fine for me, and i like it.
But there is always a but until yesterday i get the problem when i attack an another kingdom or lord in this case.
Then the game stops.
Before that i wouldn't happen and when i attack again or i attack the same kingdom it wil stop the game i sit back on my desktop.
this is what i see in my log:

} //Processing Ini File Finished
Loading Music...
Loading Textures...
Finished Loading Textures...
L8 Format is  unsupported
WARNING: UNABLE TO MAP GAME PRESENTATION CODE:  prsnt_game_start
WARNING: UNABLE TO MAP GAME PRESENTATION CODE:  prsnt_game_escape
WARNING: UNABLE TO MAP GAME SCRIPT CODE:  game_check_party_sees_party

Loading Module...
Loading item kinds...
Loading dialogs...
Loading mission templates...
Loading party templates...
loading time:  23423
Finished All...
Loading tracks
load_map_data complete.
Init_map complete.
init_meta_mission complete.
map mesh built.
get_ideal_sun_color.
get_ideal_fog_color.
646 parties added.
launch complete.


I hope that you could find the problem for me and for the next players who are using your game to.
Still i wanted to thank you for using your game and do hope for a great answer.

regards Hunter7
 

Sir Missesalot

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I'm trying to replicate your problem but I can't seem to do it.

I don't have any issues when I attack another lord's army. That is what you meant right? Did attacking another lord's army used to work then suddenly stop?, because that makes a big difference here. When you attack another lord, are you part of a different faction or independent, and if part of a faction which one?
 

Sir Missesalot

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EDIT: Actually, it seems like the problem isn't with the presentations.txt file. From checking other forums it sounds like you might need to try reinstalling Mount and Blade. It might also be because you're playing a save game from an older version with the new one. You might have to start a new game with the new version if that's the case, sorry.
 

Hunter7

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Well i did all those things first.
Everything install again

And my englisch isn't so good thats treu.
What i wanted to tell you is this, afther 49 days i attackt akhergit lord without any problems.
And that was keeping on for so 5 times.
i geuss i am now on day 57 and i would attack them again, then it happens when i start de attack in the field sometimes afther a lot of kills it stops the game.
and when i try it again then it could happen earlyer or later that the game stops.
And that is only for now when i attack the  khergit lords.

so i hope that this is a better construction of telling you whats happen.

And i did install M&B W1.31 and 1.32 and the Diplomacy NEW one and the BFT2-v1.2  and notting else.
 

Sir Missesalot

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Yeah, I've been searching around the forums and it seems this kind of crash is common across mods as well as Native. The "error" message you listed is also largely meaningless. You get that in un-modded Native games too, and it doesn't cause a CTD. So, I'm kind of stumped here. I'm playing a campaign myself and am well past day 57 and have been attacking various Sarranid lords both by myself and with other Rhodok allies and I'm not getting any problems.

The only thing I could think of is it is something related to parties.txt. You could try copying over either normal diplomacy's parties.txt file or Native's parties.txt file (make a backup of BFT2's first) and see if that fixes it, although I doubt it's the problem and it might mess up the mod. You might also want to make sure your drivers are up to date in case it's a graphics thing (though I doubt that too).
 

Hunter7

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No no youaren't i kind of stuped here, you did make something better then that it all was.
And yes there would be always a but in here and every making game.
I will start all over again and will download all games again maybe there is something getting wrong by downloading off a file ore i could use Z7 incase winrar.
I will see and thanks for youe help report.
We learn everyday, so i will let you now iff everything is going better or not.

thanks anyway for your help.
and keep going on with making new stuf for M&B W please. end offcors  BFT2  let say v1.3 ore something with more NPG players in taverns or meet them in traffic.
 

Jarric

Sergeant at Arms
WBM&BWF&SVC
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Just a fyi, on a fresh install of this mod, Rhodok Veteran Militias don't spawn with any crossbows.

Just to reconfirm, this goes in its own folder, yes? Not the main Diplomacy folder?
 

Sir Missesalot

Regular
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0
Ach, damnit, you're right. Must have happened when I was upgrading their crossbow.

Anyway, here is a fix:
http://www.zshare.net/download/813799180e8a73ab/

download and overwrite the old troops.txt file. Sorry about that all, it is is save-game compatible though.



Also, yes, it should go in its own folder.