We can already do this by pressing alt when we're in the town scene regardless of us being there beforehand. Or am I misunderstanding what you said?
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Beta Patch Notes v1.1.0
- Thread starter Callum
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madnessario
Knight at Arms
He means in the world map - not inside the city scene! There are so many things that can be implemented further with this addition, but it remains to be seen.
It's from a save started in the current non-beta version, and then continued after updating to beta. I'm not selecting both of the perks, they were just both already selected. I doubt it's relevant but my trade skill was at 179.
Pre beta I had the perk Toll Gates, post beta I had both Toll Gates and Distributed Goods, specifically.
five bucks
Knight at Arms
I think they're pretty great. A good addition that provides an option for a bandit playthrough, makes Roguery companions actually useful to players, gives a bit more reason to actually go into towns, makes the Mercy personality trait of companions actually relevant, makes your civilian outfit more important, gives the player a source of bandit troops...
It doesn't have to be super deep. Taleworlds did what they said they would do, so I'm happy. They even did more than I thought they would do (I wasn't expecting bandit troop gain or roguery skill gain which was a nice surprise).
You're right though that Crime rating is pretty irrelevant, so there's not much reason not to go all-in on having criminal alleys other than the companion being used. The Crime gain for owning alleys should be increased slightly.
Regarding what you said about income. The income you get is based on the prosperity of the town, 2% I think. Which should mean that by being a good little Godfather and clearing out other bandit parties in the area/completing quests for people, that should increase the stability, and so prosperity, of the area, which should mean your criminal enterprise will make more money. However perhaps the denars gain could be increased to something like 3%, if Taleworlds also increased the Crime gain a little bit.
However I do like your suggestion of being able to tell your criminals to destabilize a town and reduce its security and loyalty. As @Totalgarbage said that would make a fully bandit playthrough even more viable.
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How? There's no progression to it. Are you going to call making a caravan a "caravan play through", you buy a workshop is it a workshop build on a workshop playthrough? If you want to praise it fine, but this is silly.
I honestly think that 3% is too much. Owning alleyways is ironically the safest passive income in the game. It requires a very little (but kinda specific) "investment" of a companion that has a neutral or negative mercy trait with 30+ Roguery and at least 5 troops. In total, it requires approx 300 denars (and a bit of game information) for the companion + 100 denars for recruiting 5 recruits at 20 denars each from the town equaling 400 denars total. Our alleyway has no cost, not even the companion and the recruits' daily wages. If we want to be really cheap and gamey, we can even decrease costs by selling the gear of the companion ( thus maybe even turning a profit). The only actual cost we can speak of is the opportunity cost of getting a different companion or doing something else with the companion we hired.
The only "risk" of owning an alleyway is the occasional defence event. If we lose the alleyway we don't actually lose the companion (though they might have a small chance of dying, I have no idea), just the troops we put in, which in my example would be 100 denars. The quality of the troops we put in doesn't even matter that much, since the alleyway automatically generates bandit troops (whose type depends on either the area or the culture of the town) and thugs over time for free. Nothing happens if the player character gets knocked out by thugs when trying to take over an alleyway either, we just have to wait a bit to recover our health (although there is a very tiny chance of dying).
This is going to be very sloppy napkin math, so apologies in advance: From my very very basic research, an alleyway had a defence event roughly twice every in game year. If we say that an alleyway will only be controlled 40 in-game days without player interaction (This includes the 5 days on average that we have to respond), and that players will own alleyways in towns with an average prosperity of 4k (this is a low estimate that I'm giving for easy maths' sake), the revenue from alleyways would be 4000*0.02*40= 80*40 = 3200 denars. Assuming that this is the first alleyway we acquired and therefore we had to pay 300 denars for the upfront cost of hiring a companion, our total investment is 400 denars. This makes our profit 2800 denars for the very little risk of losing 5 recruits we hired 2 minutes before capturing said alleyway. If we increased the rate of revenue by 50%, we would have a profit of 4800 - 400 = 4400 denars. It's still not a groundbreaking amount of money by any means, but it has almost no risk. With 80 denars per day, we break even after the alley's 5th day. If you actually think about it, alleyways have beyond ridiculous return on investment. If we want to only make up our investment for the recruits in 1 day, we only need to go to a town with 5k prosperity, which is easily doable in day 1.
Sorry for writing such a long comment and thank you for coming to my TED talk.
The only "risk" of owning an alleyway is the occasional defence event. If we lose the alleyway we don't actually lose the companion (though they might have a small chance of dying, I have no idea), just the troops we put in, which in my example would be 100 denars. The quality of the troops we put in doesn't even matter that much, since the alleyway automatically generates bandit troops (whose type depends on either the area or the culture of the town) and thugs over time for free. Nothing happens if the player character gets knocked out by thugs when trying to take over an alleyway either, we just have to wait a bit to recover our health (although there is a very tiny chance of dying).
This is going to be very sloppy napkin math, so apologies in advance: From my very very basic research, an alleyway had a defence event roughly twice every in game year. If we say that an alleyway will only be controlled 40 in-game days without player interaction (This includes the 5 days on average that we have to respond), and that players will own alleyways in towns with an average prosperity of 4k (this is a low estimate that I'm giving for easy maths' sake), the revenue from alleyways would be 4000*0.02*40= 80*40 = 3200 denars. Assuming that this is the first alleyway we acquired and therefore we had to pay 300 denars for the upfront cost of hiring a companion, our total investment is 400 denars. This makes our profit 2800 denars for the very little risk of losing 5 recruits we hired 2 minutes before capturing said alleyway. If we increased the rate of revenue by 50%, we would have a profit of 4800 - 400 = 4400 denars. It's still not a groundbreaking amount of money by any means, but it has almost no risk. With 80 denars per day, we break even after the alley's 5th day. If you actually think about it, alleyways have beyond ridiculous return on investment. If we want to only make up our investment for the recruits in 1 day, we only need to go to a town with 5k prosperity, which is easily doable in day 1.
Sorry for writing such a long comment and thank you for coming to my TED talk.
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Goyyyio
Sergeant
Pretty much this. This isn't even banditry even, you can be a lord and have these gangs and you know, Lords don't care. The problem with how taleworlds adds mechanics is that they are isolated from the rest of the mechanics working in the game.
For a world to be alive every mechanic needs to interact with each other. Say you're a gang leader, then characters depending on their traits treat you differently= gangs + character traits interact, but this of course doesn't happen.
I mean, it does technically loosely interact with other game mechanics: as a lord or ruler, we lose half our crime rating in influence per day. If we have over 30 crime, we can't enter towns (and maybe castles as well?) freely, and if we have over 60 crime (and not a lord of said faction), the faction declares war on us. Of course, there's kinda the gaping issue of us naturally losing 1 crime rating per day (1.5 as a vassal/ruler) while alleyways only generate 0.5/day. So to reach positive crime rating generation, we need to control at least 3 alleyways as a commoner or 4 as a lord in towns of the same faction, and to face any consequences, we need to wait at least 60 in game days. So yeah, it technically interacts with the game if we want to be pedantic. Of course, if any player rubs 2 braincells together and decides to have 1 less alleyway (or have 1-2 in a different faction), the system gets outsmarted.
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five bucks
Knight at Arms
Slow down there tiger. You're putting words in my mouth. I said it provides "an option for a bandit play through" a.k.a. a source of bandit troops and Roguery skill gain and something to do, if the player is looking to progress through the game roleplaying as a criminal. I did not say it provides complete progression, just additional options.
But if you use a companion in an alley they can't be used as a governor, or spend time levelling up combat skills in your party, or be used as another clan party or noble, correct? So if you have limited clan numbers, then putting a companion into that role is not such a small investment.
Your overall assessment is right though, alleyways are a fairly safe investment. That's why I only think their income should be increased (to 3%) if the Crime gain is also increased (to, say, +1.5 per day). That would mean the player now has a net gain of Crime each day they are running even one alley, and consequences should show up soon if they're running multiple alleys. But you would get more reward in return.
I did later on add that there is also the opportunity cost, though if we are at the stage where we have the money to field another party we don't really need a hideout (as other ways of companion levelling are kinda poopoo unless we grind it in bandit hideouts)
Bluko88
Sergeant
Closer look that seems to be the case, but how are the values attributed? I can have +2 Relation with a fellow Honest Notable, but then like -3 Relation with a Dishonest Notable.
Also I'm certain Calculating isn't considered and I have doubts about Generosity too. Seems like this should be simple; you have matching Trait +1 Relation, you have mis-matching Trait -1 Relation.
Might have had to do with cheat mode being on. I got lucky yesterday, just 1 crash I think if that.
Also with the character I created in 1.1 I'm apparently able to attack caravans without any kind of penalty. No relationship penalty with Merchants and no war is started with faction...
Talk about easy pickings. I don't recall there being a Roguery perk (got that up to 100 something) that did this before.
That would be a fair compromise if you ask me. You have to be somewhat sociable and talk to other Lords/Notables to establish a diplomatic channel. I think the real pickle is how do you create a messenger system that isn't basically the same as visiting/talking? Diplomacy mod is better than nothing, but there should be some acknowledgement it's a messenger speaking, rather than you possessing them.
All I know is it's pretty BS the A.I. can just arrange marriages, convert clans, etc. without meeting/traveling to meet said Lords. Bad enough they don't use horses for troop upgrades.
I'm guessing the idea for Companions is that TW wants you to speak to the Tavern Keepers to find certain Companion archetypes. Though it seems a bit tacky to do this after launch, especially since console players would have had full encyclopedia access too, not like it was just an Early Access thing. Also you should be able to inquire with friendly Nobles details about their other Clan members. Little things like that will go a long way to making relations actually relevant.
Obviously much more should be done than just that. Should be lot more ways to gain/lost relations if you ask me. Be nice if there were some general conversation options that could potentially net or lose you relations. Everything being related to fighting and quests seems rather limited.
Found 2 confusing passages in the new Perk-descriptions:
-Polearm lvl 25 "Pikeman": The Captain-Bonus say "+2% dmge by Cavalry" (the same as the "Cavalry"-perk). Is this correct and do both lvl-25 perks now boost cavalry-Captains? Or shouldnt it rather be "by Infantrie" or "against Cavalry"?
- Charm lvl 25 "Self Promoter" : Says "(Party Leader) +1 Moral while besieged in the governed settlement". Why does it say "governed" if its a party-leader perk?
-Polearm lvl 25 "Pikeman": The Captain-Bonus say "+2% dmge by Cavalry" (the same as the "Cavalry"-perk). Is this correct and do both lvl-25 perks now boost cavalry-Captains? Or shouldnt it rather be "by Infantrie" or "against Cavalry"?
- Charm lvl 25 "Self Promoter" : Says "(Party Leader) +1 Moral while besieged in the governed settlement". Why does it say "governed" if its a party-leader perk?
nibbler2345432
Recruit
Not sure what happened but after trying everything, uninstall/reinstall, changing drivers, etc, after a few days and a PC reboot it randomly works now, so not sure what exactly the fix was because I had forgotten about it for some time.
+1Yea, 0-3 if you visit the town, a random bandit fight gives me more prisoners.
TurkishEconomy
Regular
The game still feels empty. There's a huge lack of immersion due to missing RP elements, or just fun things to do.
While I think this is a welcome patch due to some improvements to the base game, I see no point in returning back, as it's still the same repetitive battle simulator.
While I think this is a welcome patch due to some improvements to the base game, I see no point in returning back, as it's still the same repetitive battle simulator.
AvgJoe45
Recruit
Bug report:
- When forcing notables to give recruits only level one recruits are given irrespective of if the village is connected to a castle (where noble recruits are usually expected). Also those recruits will be of the culture of the faction that owns the village. So if vlandia conquers a battanian castle, the troops given when forcing notables to give recruits are vlandian recruits (despite having to fight battanian militiamen to get the troops). I doubt this is the intended behavior
- When forcing notables to give recruits only level one recruits are given irrespective of if the village is connected to a castle (where noble recruits are usually expected). Also those recruits will be of the culture of the faction that owns the village. So if vlandia conquers a battanian castle, the troops given when forcing notables to give recruits are vlandian recruits (despite having to fight battanian militiamen to get the troops). I doubt this is the intended behavior
I noticed it too. It seems to get down to under 600 total on both sides before any are added. Something is defiantly off.
It does seem very intended if you ask me
