Beta Patch Notes e1.6.5

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Ser Jon said:
A hurricane would be great, tons of new features or something. At this point, I'd accept them buggy, if I knew more actual content was headed our way.
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Yeah I would accept some bugg's too, the battle terrain system would make me play the game again, i'm just tired of fighting in the same scenes over, over and over again. Also some cool way to level up soldiers, anything rather than kill looters.
It was very cool to play with bloc mods, Freelancer, Ludus and Plague, its a shame he wont update them anymore :sad:
 
Guiflick said:
Yeah I would accept some bugg's too, the battle terrain system would make me play the game again, i'm just tired of fighting in the same scenes over, over and over again. Also some cool way to level up soldiers, anything rather than kill looters.
It was very cool to play with bloc mods, Freelancer, Ludus and Plague, its a shame he wont update them anymore :sad:
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More and more modders are dropping support. They're sick and tired of Taleworlds and how they "support" them. I completely understand why they left, though it is a shame. I agree.
 
Ser Jon said:
More and more modders are dropping support. They're sick and tired of Taleworlds and how they "support" them. I completely understand why they left, though it is a shame. I agree.
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TW is doing a lot of efforts to support the moddability of Bannerlord. Just check the specific thread and see how Dejan is responsive and listing what has been done and what is planned so far.
The main reasons that modders are dropping support are:
They are bored.
They just don't play the game anymore.
They don't have time to fix and update their mods on every patches (once every 2 weeks is quite tedious to catch up) and prefer to wait a while or even the full release.
Bloc (sadly) quit from modding BL but he said on Nexus (Serve as Soldier page) that he may come back after full release if the game really reaches its full potential.
If you really think about that, it is just not a great idea to start modding a game that is far from being finished...
 
Spinozart1 said:
TW is doing a lot of efforts to support the moddability of Bannerlord. Just check the specific thread and see how Dejan is responsive and listing what has been done and what is planned so far.
The main reasons that modders are dropping support are:
They are bored.
They just don't play the game anymore.
They don't have time to fix and update their mods on every patches (once every 2 weeks is quite tedious to catch up) and prefer to wait a while or even the full release.
Bloc (sadly) quit from modding BL but he said on Nexus (Serve as Soldier page) that he may come back after full release if the game really reaches its full potential.
If you really think about that, it is just not a great idea to start modding a game that is far from being finished...
Click to expand...

You have a point about starting mods on an unfinished game, but it's more about how terrible the tools were (and still are), and how every patch or so breaks everything. I don't know if it's possible to do, but it might have been helpful to all of the modders if the BL devs did more to not break the game per patch.
 
Ser Jon said:
You have a point about starting mods on an unfinished game, but it's more about how terrible the tools were (and still are), and how every patch or so breaks everything. I don't know if it's possible to do, but it might have been helpful to all of the modders if the BL devs did more to not break the game per patch.
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I'm not even speaking about overhaul mods, neither using the modding tools.
It is already possible to mod a LOT of the game using c# but since TW keeps improving the base code (which is good), you can be sure that a lot of mods will end up broken because they are using obsolete methods...
Speaking about overhaul mods, I'm quite worrying about the new battle terrain and how it would impact their development. Especially for those introducing a complete new world map.
 
Spinozart1 said:
If you really think about that, it is just not a great idea to start modding a game that is far from being finished...
Click to expand...
Actually it IS a good idea and the game is not far from being finished (according to the Holy Vision) - it will be released in half a year with a few additional features.
Now why it is a good idea. If you are a serious modder, you want the maximum number of players to use your mods (the only real way to measure **** length in the modding community).
Those mods that are "first to market" gain a good headstart because there's not much competition yet and players have limited choice. Some pretty mediocre full conversion mods were popular a few months after Warband released just because there were about four such mods available. Better mods were soon either converted from their vanilla version or developed, and gained players due to their quality, but the first ones already had a player base that was invested in them, at least until they were abandoned.

You basically need to think like a commercial company if you want to attract and retain players. Why would you do that if you work for free? Virtual **** size, that's why.
(There is another good reason though - if your mod does well, you may cut a deal with Taleworlds to develop a commercial standalone or DLC version, which will make you rich and famous until you have a botched release and can't support your questionable habit from royalties any more.)
 
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Spinozart1 said:
I'm not even speaking about overhaul mods, neither using the modding tools.
It is already possible to mod a LOT of the game using c# but since TW keeps improving the base code (which is good), you can be sure that a lot of mods will end up broken because they are using obsolete methods...
Speaking about overhaul mods, I'm quite worrying about the new battle terrain and how it would impact their development. Especially for those introducing a complete new world map.
Click to expand...

Whatever the mod, it doesn't really matter. If the code is changing that dramatically in early access, they are not releasing in half a year or a year. The changes are definitely more minute that that, but a developer can correct me if I am wrong here. So just improving code shouldn't be causing constant problems with mods, especially not the super simplistic ones. They need to take more care in these patches if they want the modding community to live.
 
Ser Jon said:
...So just improving code shouldn't be causing constant problems with mods, especially not the super simplistic ones...
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Depends what changes. For example 1.6.5 standardised on some American as opposed to English spellings. So mods that referenced behaviour (i.e. GetMisssionBehaviour) as previously required were broken by the spelling change to behavior (i.e. GetMissionBehavior). Simple to fix provided the modder concerned is still active.
 
NPC99 said:
Depends what changes. For example 1.6.5 standardised on some American as opposed to English spellings. So mods that referenced behaviour (i.e. GetMisssionBehaviour) as previously required were broken by the spelling change to behavior (i.e. GetMissionBehavior). Simple to fix provided the modder concerned is still active.
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Thanks for this concrete example.
It is an improvement (by standardisation) but still may result in breaking a lot of mods...
We can't blame the devs for that (though I agree it is a consequence of uncoherent development).
 
MadVader said:
Actually it IS a good idea and the game is not far from being finished (according to the Holy Vision) - it will be released in half a year with a few additional features.
Now why it is a good idea. If you are a serious modder, you want the maximum number of players to use your mods (the only real way to measure **** length in the modding community).
Those mods that are "first to market" gain a good headstart because there's not much competition yet and players have limited choice. Some pretty mediocre full conversion mods were popular a few months after Warband released just because there were about four such mods available. Better mods were soon either converted from their vanilla version or developed, and gained players due to their quality, but the first ones already had a player base that was invested in them, at least until they were abandoned.

You basically need to think like a commercial company if you want to attract and retain players. Why would you do that if you work for free? Virtual **** size, that's why.
(There is another good reason though - if your mod does well, you may cut a deal with Taleworlds to develop a commercial standalone or DLC version, which will make you rich and famous until you have a botched release and can't support your questionable habit from royalties any more.)
Click to expand...
You are missing a third one... The one where people spends their free time creating something and naively share it.
Without expecting anything... But will still welcome any kind words...
 
NPC99 said:
Depends what changes. For example 1.6.5 standardised on some American as opposed to English spellings. So mods that referenced behaviour (i.e. GetMisssionBehaviour) as previously required were broken by the spelling change to behavior (i.e. GetMissionBehavior). Simple to fix provided the modder concerned is still active.
Click to expand...

I expected those kinds of changes, but do they qualify for code rewrites or extensive changes? It just seems like a misspelling that had been used previously and was corrected, which of course would still break mods. I had meant there's no real code rewriting or engine rewriting, so for mods to break every patch seems ridiculous.
 
Ser Jon said:
I expected those kinds of changes, but do they qualify for code rewrites or extensive changes? It just seems like a misspelling that had been used previously and was corrected, which of course would still break mods. I had meant there's no real code rewriting or engine rewriting, so for mods to break every patch seems ridiculous.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure that's true. I only really focus on worldmaps but we've seen lots of optimisation changes recently. 1.6.4 massively compresses terrain.bin files reducing Main_map's by 55% at the expense of a slightly bigger flora.bin - I believe it was reorganising the way flora layers were handled. 1.6.5 activated TW's campaign_icon_capsule system, which sections campaign maps into 90ish geographical boxes and uses engine C++ scripts Town_Entity_Manager and Town_Scene_Manager to introduce a new faster hierarchical way of culling map icons that are off screen or occulted as they don't need to be drawn - improving stability and fps on the campaign map on minimum spec pcs. Stuff like this only has the tip of the iceberg breaking the surface.
1.6.5 fixing the massive memory leaks when sculpting terrain in the scene editor was a godsend for me.
 
NPC99 said:
I'm not sure that's true. I only really focus on worldmaps but we've seen lots of optimisation changes recently. 1.6.4 massively compresses terrain.bin files reducing Main_map's by 55% at the expense of a slightly bigger flora.bin - I believe it was reorganising the way flora layers were handled. 1.6.5 activated TW's campaign_icon_capsule system, which sections campaign maps into 90ish geographical boxes and uses engine C++ scripts Town_Entity_Manager and Town_Scene_Manager to introduce a new faster hierarchical way of culling map icons that are off screen or occulted as they don't need to be drawn - improving stability and fps on the campaign map on minimum spec pcs. Stuff like this only has the tip of the iceberg breaking the surface.
1.6.5 fixing the massive memory leaks when sculpting terrain in the scene editor was a godsend for me.
Click to expand...

Admittedly, I am working off my limited knowledge of the Ruby scripting language, so I do not know how it works for Bannerlord. I can only speculate off my knowledge and what I can grasp from looking into it (albeit that is not a lot). I'll take your word for it, then! Thank you for giving your input into NPC, it's especially appreciated since you have your feet stuck into the matter personally.
 
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