Beta Patch Notes e1.6.5

[vito397]

Whatever the outcome of the debate of the number of policies would be, I hope they keep the creation through dialogues. At least it gives some RPG feature to the governors apart from all the menus

 

[Jella]

Okay, the idea to automatically activate the default policies of the kingdom culture are a horrible idea. It's one of many terrible ideas by this company who have no idea how to design a game like this. They have been fumbling around for 10 years and siege AI is not functional.

-snip-

THEY HAVE YET TO ADD MAJOR CONTENT IN OVER A YEAR, MORE BUGS ARE ADDED EVERY PATCH.

This is not an emotive rant, I am cool and calm, I am sick of the stupid decisions lies and going to voice it.

Can you really tell when these people are on vacation or not? I can't.
This the worst EA I have ever seen.

xdd just 3 messages and y got busted. check it out i got 33 /flex

 

[SGT_Night]

Whatever the outcome of the debate of the number of policies would be, I hope they keep the creation through dialogues. At least it gives some RPG feature to the governors apart from all the menus

+1

 

[khuzait haircut]

Policies have been broken for a long time. Giant list instead of a tree like any sensible game would do.

 

[Lesbosisles]

Policies have been broken for a long time. Giant list instead of a tree like any sensible game would do.

And also, as far as I know, AI A doesn't have any logic while choosing a policy. Right now, they are doing it randomly.

Plus, the policies need a good rebalancing so they have both pros and contras. Because, right now, such policies like Castellans (or something like that) give you only positive buffs, so there is absolutely no point in abolishing it (yet sometimes the AI tries doing just that.

 

[five bucks]

I like the kingdom policies being individual rather than a tree.

And also, as far as I know, AI A doesn't have any logic while choosing a policy. Right now, they are doing it randomly.

Plus, the policies need a good rebalancing so they have both pros and contras. Because, right now, such policies like Castellans (or something like that) give you only positive buffs, so there is absolutely no point in abolishing it (yet sometimes the AI tries doing just that.

Yeah, AI policies proposed/voted for should be noticeably influenced by their personality traits and clan rank.

I think the policy you're talking about is called Castle Charters. What it should do is decrease the influence of the ruler a bit more (ingame reason: more military strength of the vassals = less strength of the ruler). So ruling clans should be opposed, but all other clans should be in favour, unless they have a good relation with the ruler.

 

[DB Coper]

I prefer sandbox games that hold my hand and guide me into linear gameplay, keep up the improvements. The battle map system should be ready by 2025 lol. Meanwhile one modder (My little warband maker) has made more content for this game by himself than this team in the last year.

 

[Ser Jon]

I prefer sandbox games that hold my hand and guide me into linear gameplay, keep up the improvements. The battle map system should be ready by 2025 lol. Meanwhile one modder (My little warband maker) has made more content for this game by himself than this team in the last year.

You are talking about kz14365, right?

He's certainly trying his best to improve this game. The sheer amount of stuff he has made is pretty damn awesome. It's a shame though looking through Nexus for Bannerlord mods, most of them have been abandoned due to the poor support from TW and the crappy tools and such. TW is killing its own game and they don't even realize it.

 

[danEN]

I see the terrain update dropping at 1.6.8 or 1.6.9. If they are being vague on what progress is done with it right now and cannot comment on it, I'd wager that means it's not even close to release. Something like that (a terrain generator for scenes) feels like it'd take a lot of testing.

is it actually a terrain generator, i thought they were just making the scenes by hand

 

[SOku]

is it actually a terrain generator, i thought they were just making the scenes by hand

Hot Take here, they might use a procedural tool to render those efficiently, then polish it by hand.
If it was me in charge I would do it this way thought, that's a pretty common pattern in the industry.
It could be incredibly time-consuming to do those scenes one by one by hands, but then again the feature got announced in February 2021 and yet .. here we are.

I still think they are fine-tuning whichever tool they created or use to be polished and on a ready state.


edit : discussions that dates back to 2020 with Mexxico as I remind hinted us they would do this by hand ( it was a suggestion about more scenes in the end ), but looks like it sparkled them the idea to make this Battle Terrain System instead, which is pretty good.
Then again I don't know if they used the term " generation" on the video or "Future Plans" blog post, I'm feeling lazy to re-watch or re-read it to be honest.

 

[Ser Jon]

is it actually a terrain generator, i thought they were just making the scenes by hand

The way I understood it, was that it was some sort of procedural generator.

 

[SOku]

Either way, they are probably fine-tuning it by hands to look the way they want. ( holy smokes, it's almost like I'm talking like Todd Howard here )

 

[vito397]

It is NOT a procedural generator. It is DONE BY HAND. And that is why I am always in opposition to such an update being made instead of just refining an actual terrain generator. It is a huge blow to modders who now have to make upwards to 400 maps for not only the castles and towns, but for random fields. A waste of resources, time and patience in my opinion. But we will see how that turns out

 

[Spinozart1]

It is NOT a procedural generator.

Confirmed by Duh HERE

 

[Mad Vader]

It is NOT a procedural generator. It is DONE BY HAND. And that is why I am always in opposition to such an update being made instead of just refining an actual terrain generator. It is a huge blow to modders who now have to make upwards to 400 maps for not only the castles and towns, but for random fields. A waste of resources, time and patience in my opinion. But we will see how that turns out

Exactly, a moddable procedural generator would have been much more useful in the long run. But no, they opted for unnecessary work generator. So many wrong decisions...

 

[SOku]

It is NOT a procedural generator. It is DONE BY HAND. And that is why I am always in opposition to such an update being made instead of just refining an actual terrain generator. It is a huge blow to modders who now have to make upwards to 400 maps for not only the castles and towns, but for random fields. A waste of resources, time and patience in my opinion. But we will see how that turns out

Hmm, but you know you can do both right ? That's how many if not the majority of big open-worlds are done today.
Procedural doesn't mean like in No Man's Sky, you can ease your process on your scene generation and fine tune the things by hands, so best of both worlds here.
As per Duh's quote :

The game never had and very likely won't have automated scene generation. The intention for the battle terrain system is to be moddable.

I don't have the time to catch up the context of this conversation to understand what he meant by " automated ", so i'll give you the point.
Don't forget that mine thought, was creating maps with the help of procedural tools, not generating it "on the fly".

 

[vito397]

Hmm, but you know you can do both right ? That's how many if not the majority of big open-worlds are done today.
Procedural doesn't mean like in No Man's Sky, you can ease your process on your scene generation and fine tune the things by hands, so best of both worlds here.
As per Duh's quote :


I don't have the time to catch up the context of this conversation to understand what he meant by " automated ", so i'll give you the point.
Don't forget that mine thought, was creating maps with the help of procedural tools, not generating it "on the fly".

But Bannerlord is not an open world game in a true sense. Warband was divided into biomes from which the generated battle maps were formed (forested, snowy, desert, plains, tundra, etc. areas) and was combined with some other factors (such as hilly or mountainous area on the map would give those characteristics to the battle maps). The generation process was by itself wonky but it ensured that you did not get two same maps in any playthrough. Ever.

What Bannerlord has done was divide the areas into biomes too, but it they did not work the same. Instead of generating maps, they made some 30 maps by hand, and sorted them by biome. So when you fight in a forest area, it just picks from a pool of 10-ish forest maps made by the devs. This was obviously atrocious and so instead of refining and advancing the system that Warband had (which was by itself improved upon to a very good level by some mods), they opted to divide the map into 200 blocks, each having its own map. So that means that you get cliche sentences like "Hah! You get to choose your battlefield!" but it ultimately leads to fighting in the same spots over and over and over again, cheesing the maps you know. This was done, in my opinion, because TW knew that the AI would be even more horrible if it had to fend for itself on a map that didn't have two hand placed big boulders that said "AI RETREATS HERE WHEN IN DANGER".

So yeah, it can be both, but it will not. Battle maps will be bound to a strict pool of hand-made maps. And don't even get me started on adjusting the maps to fit the seasons. So every map, redone 4 times. 200x4. 800 maps to make. Good lord

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

It'd be cool if each terrain map had a small chance of some special event happening, like you attack looters and a group of darknight (or something) come ambush you, or after the fight you might meet a special npc or something.

 

[DB Coper]

But Bannerlord is not an open world game in a true sense. Warband was divided into biomes from which the generated battle maps were formed (forested, snowy, desert, plains, tundra, etc. areas) and was combined with some other factors (such as hilly or mountainous area on the map would give those characteristics to the battle maps). The generation process was by itself wonky but it ensured that you did not get two same maps in any playthrough. Ever.

What Bannerlord has done was divide the areas into biomes too, but it they did not work the same. Instead of generating maps, they made some 30 maps by hand, and sorted them by biome. So when you fight in a forest area, it just picks from a pool of 10-ish forest maps made by the devs. This was obviously atrocious and so instead of refining and advancing the system that Warband had (which was by itself improved upon to a very good level by some mods), they opted to divide the map into 200 blocks, each having its own map. So that means that you get cliche sentences like "Hah! You get to choose your battlefield!" but it ultimately leads to fighting in the same spots over and over and over again, cheesing the maps you know. This was done, in my opinion, because TW knew that the AI would be even more horrible if it had to fend for itself on a map that didn't have two hand placed big boulders that said "AI RETREATS HERE WHEN IN DANGER".

So yeah, it can be both, but it will not. Battle maps will be bound to a strict pool of hand-made maps. And don't even get me started on adjusting the maps to fit the seasons. So every map, redone 4 times. 200x4. 800 maps to make. Good lord

Half of Bannerlord's features are regressive ideas from warband.

 

[SOku]

But Bannerlord is not an open world game in a true sense. Warband was divided into biomes from which the generated battle maps were formed (forested, snowy, desert, plains, tundra, etc. areas) and was combined with some other factors (such as hilly or mountainous area on the map would give those characteristics to the battle maps). The generation process was by itself wonky but it ensured that you did not get two same maps in any playthrough. Ever.

What Bannerlord has done was divide the areas into biomes too, but it they did not work the same. Instead of generating maps, they made some 30 maps by hand, and sorted them by biome. So when you fight in a forest area, it just picks from a pool of 10-ish forest maps made by the devs. This was obviously atrocious and so instead of refining and advancing the system that Warband had (which was by itself improved upon to a very good level by some mods), they opted to divide the map into 200 blocks, each having its own map. So that means that you get cliche sentences like "Hah! You get to choose your battlefield!" but it ultimately leads to fighting in the same spots over and over and over again, cheesing the maps you know. This was done, in my opinion, because TW knew that the AI would be even more horrible if it had to fend for itself on a map that didn't have two hand placed big boulders that said "AI RETREATS HERE WHEN IN DANGER".

So yeah, it can be both, but it will not. Battle maps will be bound to a strict pool of hand-made maps. And don't even get me started on adjusting the maps to fit the seasons. So every map, redone 4 times. 200x4. 800 maps to make. Good lord

I know that, I just noted as a reference since those games tend to be huge due to their nature, so a lot of " scenes " ( for a lack of a better word ) has to be produced. I didn't compare Bannerlord here, in the end the comparison ends on the engine / API / tools that many games use at some point.
You still didn't explain me why it couldn't be both thought, you just explained me the current system in Bannerlord, something I believe we are all aware of, more or less.

In a ideal world you don't have to recreate scenes 1:1 for seasons, that wouldn't be smart and very tedious to do, also time-consuming.
I really don't know their codebase, their engine, nor their tools here but in my mind they just have to toggle options on their engine to render a particular scene for different seasons. In the end, that's how tools like I hinted above can be handy for their devs / artists.

Work smarter, not harder. But eh, I'm not TW here ...