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Beta Patch Notes e1.6.5

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Phantom425

Sergeant
"Oh wow new things, it must be good"......"oh no nothing good happened at all wtf?"
As Five Bucks said, they're meant to just be fun distractions of the game. It's fun to crush your enemies in their last stand in a Siege, and it is fun to try and break out your friend when they're being held in captivity. Not everything in the game is supposed to contribute something incredible to the game, some things are just meant to give the players a little thing to do, that's fun.

Not everything in a game has to be geared towards you becoming the most powerful person in Calradia. A lot can be added for Immersion sake, or just for dumb fun.
Neat is not really a standard to be coveted
Neat is the best you're going to get with something like Keep Battles and Prison Breaks, something that's small that you can do on the side. The best you can get is a quick "Oh, that's really cool".
 

Lesbosisles

Knight
It's fun to crush your enemies in their last stand in a Siege
And lose a few elite soldiers and a wife in a process...
and it is fun to try and break out your friend when they're being held in captivity
You've forgotten to mention the funniest part - save scumming to infiltrate the city just because the renown decreases your chances as nothing else and you have around 45% even with maxed out Rougery. And you have no opportunity to escape the captivity as it was in Warband. So yep, having tons of "fun" watching those loading screens.

Not everything in the game is supposed to contribute something incredible to the game, some things are just meant to give the players a little thing to do, that's fun.
If one of the core mechanics, the ability to save the lord (the most important asset of any kingdom by the way) in a SANDBOX GAME is made for, as you say "dumb fun", than this sandbox has a problem. It's not some Call of Duty, when you are given to ride a tank just for fun.

The problem is that Bannerlord as it is now is a bad sandbox game. The possibilities to influence the world somehow are sooo limited, which is bad for a sandbox. You cannot command your troops during siege (actually, you can somewhat give orders and stuff, but tell me - is it very convenient for you?), you cannot influence the inner state of other kingdom, it is almost impossible to persuade a lord to leave their kingdom and join yours, as a King your word means nothing, etc. In a good sandbox game almost every single aspect should influence another one, resulting in different unexpected outcomes. In Bannerlord, if you release one lord from prison - will it influence the outcome of war? Hardly. Even the mentioned above "friend" will do absolutely nothing to help you if he's an ally or let you go if he's your enemy because the relationship means nothing in Bannerlord.
 

Grank

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBNWVC
But you won´t be able to use this feature. 10 looters can kill one of your T5+ units when they fight 10 vs 200 in auto battle.
Does this happen often to you? I've been autoresolving my whole campaign and when it comes to looters a T5+ casualty is very rare. It happens tho, but among all the other battles it's insignificant to me.
 

Brocephus

Sergeant
Some of the things that I would consider "wow" features have been implemented in mods that may or may not work anymore, e.g.:
- Improved banner editor and banners in my army.
- Freelancer type functionality.
- Realistic battles.

Some would just be improvements of what are currently poorly implemented feature (all of these are in the game and none of them are "good"):
- Main story.
- Sieges.
- Marriage.
- Smithing.
- Enterprises.
- Caravans.

Some are features that were promised and/or are missing from what was in Warband:
- Meaningful relationship development.
- Pre-battle placement.
- Feasts.


These are just a few off the top of my head. I am sure you guys can come up with a lot more. While we have seen bug fixes, optimizations, and new assets, we haven't, in my opinion, seen any new features that are really well-done and show some sort of inspiration to move the game forward in a big way.

.02
 

Phantom425

Sergeant
And lose a few elite soldiers and a wife in a process...
Yeah, and? I'd rather have that feature and lose the soldiers then not have it. It is fun.
If one of the core mechanics, the ability to save the lord (the most important asset of any kingdom by the way) in a SANDBOX GAME is made for, as you say "dumb fun", than this sandbox has a problem. It's not some Call of Duty, when you are given to ride a tank just for fun.
No, it isn't whatsoever. The ability to break your lords out of jail is meant to be fun. The entire game is meant to be fun. And I don't get why a feature being made for dumb fun makes a problem for a Sandbox. Sandbox games can thrive off of a little dumb fun here and there. And I don't think that these features were added just to be dumb fun. I also said that a lot can be added for immersion sake or dumb fun, not that these features were dumb fun.

And there is no one, definitive, good Sandbox experience. And not every aspect of the game should majorly influence another aspect of a game. Obviously, freeing just one lord isn't going to change the tides of a war. If you think that should, that's wrong. That is one lord. It is your choice if you want to break him out or not, the game isn't forcing you. It is a Sandbox, you can do it if you like.

That doesn't mean that the other issues with Bannerlord don't exist, but the issues that you pointed out don't have to deal with Bannerlord being a bad Sandbox. As a Sandbox, BL is pretty good. Not great, it obviously has issues, but not bad. There are aspects of the game, like Criminal Enterprise, which have been criminally underdeveloped and basically aren't in the game. The problems that you pointed out deal with the fact that BL is a bad Kingdom management game, something more akin to EU4 or CK3. And I agree with that sentiment. Being a King feels... weak.
 

Spinozart1

Knight
And lose a few elite soldiers and a wife in a process...
Better than a god mode where everybody dies except your clan members / family and you barely never lose any high tier troops...
You've forgotten to mention the funniest part - save scumming to infiltrate the city just because the renown decreases your chances as nothing else and you have around 45% even with maxed out Rougery. And you have no opportunity to escape the captivity as it was in Warband. So yep, having tons of "fun" watching those loading screens.
Didn't they change this mechanic in one of the last patches?
The problem is that TW didn't really design the game for a full roguery playstyle.
Only "enjoyable" early and mid game.

I don't really agree with the "bad sandbox game" idea. What is a great sandbox game for you? Minecraft?
It is already possible to start various gameplay and you can expand this even further with mods...
I'm not speaking about fixing the game with mods, but expanding the gameplay the way you want.
The possiblities are already endless despite what people could say...
 

Phantom425

Sergeant
Didn't they change this mechanic in one of the last patches?
The problem is that TW didn't really design the game for a full roguery playstyle.
Only "enjoyable" early and mid game.
Also, if I'm being entirely honest, that kinda makes sense. Hard to sneak around when you're known throughout the realms.
 

MadVader

Duhpressed
Duke
M&BWB
Also, if I'm being entirely honest, that kinda makes sense. Hard to sneak around when you're known throughout the realms.
You don't wear your renown on your face, so a change of clothes and some other simple disguise should mostly work. Everyone in early Calradia is kind of ugly and looks similar, so it's easy to get lost in a crowd.
 

Phantom425

Sergeant
You don't wear your renown on your face, so a change of clothes and some other simple disguise should mostly work. Everyone in early Calradia is kind of ugly and looks similar, so it's easy to get lost in a crowd.
True, but it gets a lot harder to blend in the more known you are. The chances of some guard knowing your general description and spotting you in a crowd becomes higher, especially when you're at war with that nation.
 

Spinozart1

Knight
Also, if I'm being entirely honest, that kinda makes sense. Hard to sneak around when you're known throughout the realms.
I agree and that's part of my point.
TW didn't really think about a late gameplay as a roguery character.
It works well in the beginning. Do gang leaders quests, do some prison breaks, sneak into town, etc... I like it.
Still good as a mercenary too. You can attack villagers, raid villages and raid caravans.
From vassalage it tends to be less coherent but still ok.
But then once you become a ruler... Are you going to do gang leaders quests, prison breaks? You would barely raid villages...
That's where you come with the missing "Criminal Empire" feature. There are a lot of possiblities here, and I fear that TW may keep it for a future DLC...
I even started learning c# for modding and try to give some love to the rogue way...
 

MostBlunted

Sergeant Knight
True, but it gets a lot harder to blend in the more known you are. The chances of some guard knowing your general description and spotting you in a crowd becomes higher, especially when you're at war with that nation.
But you know that there was no Facebook, Instagram or newspapers?
 

MostBlunted

Sergeant Knight
Life with no screens? How could I ever live? I thought Facebook was invented in 1066, same year that all the people who use it were born.
No for "real", even if you have heard how a person looks like, you´ve never seen him and can´t just check how he looks unless you´ve met him and know that this is him.

If you just have a description like:

- around 1,87m
- 75kg
- black hair
- blue eyes
- big nose

It would be very hard to be certain that person X is the person you are looking for. So even if everyone in the world knows your name and have heard how you look like doesn´t mean that even 2% will recognise you in foreign towns.
 

Phantom425

Sergeant
It would be very hard to be certain that person X is the person you are looking for. So even if everyone in the world knows your name and have heard how you look like doesn´t mean that even 2% will recognise you in foreign towns.
For "real", I understand that completely. Believe me, I'm not that horribly stupid, only a little bit. However, the more reknown a player gets the higher the likelihood that they'll be spotted, especially if they have done business in that town, and especially if they are at war.

I don't think that you should never be able to sneak into a town, I really don't. I just think that it makes some sense that the more reknown you get, and the more powerful you are, then it will get harder to sneak in.
 

MostBlunted

Sergeant Knight
I don't think that you should never be able to sneak into a town, I really don't. I just think that it makes some sense that the more reknown you get, and the more powerful you are, then it will get harder to sneak in.
Yes, like 1-5% if you have a high roguery skill so that this skill doesn´t become useless as it is.
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Master Knight
Changes of activity/scenery are necessary to make the game not feel repetitive.
I don't think these help that at all. Prison breaks are never used once you progress the game little bit, nobody wants to save scum over and over to get one lord out early (you could just siege the fief and get them all) and early game nobody want to drop 2k more then once or twice to try it out... unless they're thumb twittling dilly dally tinker-roo not progressing the game and doing degenerate things like smithing and trading, then sure maybe then they think it's a great idea, maybe they don't even go to war and just tinker away doing prison break for roguery and it's a great breaks for a fun break from the horrible horrible smithing and trading they think is the game. Oh and keep battles are just 20 more seconds of the same combat you just did, but worse.
They are both also challenging fights in interesting environments
Prison break has a certain challenge okay, but keep battles last about 20 seconds or less and I can just tab out, there's nothing to it accept if someone you don't want in the battle spawns in and dies.
Before prison breaks, if someone you wanted to talk to got captured, you had to wait out the entire term of their imprisonment.
I can take the fief(and so CAN YOU! Just believe in yourself!), I've done so to get a clan leader out for a favorable early marriage, but to my dismay they go into holding cooldown (they do if broken out too) and you still have to wait for them to re-spawn(and teleport) and track them down, so it really barely helps at all.
We're all on the same page here that Taleworlds hasn't made enough progress, and sure these particular features could be better, but they're still good features.
I really want to agree, but I can't concede that these two game things are "good", I will say it's GOOD that they are adding features, good that they added improvements to them and it is possible to enhance these into something more useful and enjoyable. Maybe more options and ways to sneak into the prison and more results too or proper quests related to it. perks or civ gear related to it, fun stuff, perk for releasing multiple prisoners engineering to tunnel into it? For keep battles, and actually all battles a big improvement would be a "do not deploy" check so we can just keep put our special boys and girls. ALso if there is any lord there a parley would be good, maybe a duel depending on stats and traits or a surrender. They can obviously make these good and fun and useful, I just don't think it's there yet.
 

Phantom425

Sergeant
Yes, like 1-5% if you have a high roguery skill so that this skill doesn´t become useless as it is.
I completely agree. If you're good at sneaking, you should be able to do it a lot better. There should also be a couple more things to do in town, like maybe sabotage some stuff.
 
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