Beta Patch Notes e1.5.7

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Senko

Sergeant
I foresee I pile of starving Khuzaits showing up at my door :smile: In this game I want to see how taking rebel towns plays out when I also start war with khuzaits ASAP. Will they really come to get me so far away? I like the snowballing fixes but I still like to fight the khuzait ASAP.
It would be hilarious if they actually would show up, leaving their territory basically undefended.
 

AndrewArt

Sergeant
I foresee I pile of starving Khuzaits showing up at my door :smile: In this game I want to see how taking rebel towns plays out when I also start war with khuzaits ASAP. Will they really come to get me so far away? I like the snowballing fixes but I still like to fight the khuzait ASAP.
so did you take a rebel town and avoided war with the vlandians that way? I didn't play so much of 1.5.7 but I did see the thread about this being the case. Hmm, I think there should be indeed implemented reputation bonus for taking a town and giving it back, and if you don't give it back they go to war and lose reputation, or go to war later on... seems easy to take if the town is undefended by many lords isn't it? Or did something else happen here? I was looking for the thread but I couldn't find it, I wonder what decision will devs implement for that
 
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AnandaShanti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
so did you take a rebel town and avoided war with the vlandians that way? I didn't play so much of 1.5.7 but I did see the thread about this being the case. Hmm, I think there should be indeed implemented reputation bonus for taking a town and giving it back, and if you don't give it back they go to war and lose reputation, or go to war later on... seems easy to take if the town is undefended by many lords isn't it? Or did something else happen here? I was looking for the thread but I couldn't find it, I wonder what decision will devs implement for that
it's this thread
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/on-rebellions.436330/
I took the rebel's town. It's the same as an average town's power, not that it matters since they can't do much to me in the siege map. In other games I took 7-10 rebel towns without any war with major factions as an independent clan. If they make you go to war against a main faction then they might as well delete rebelions as it's the the same as taking any town. I can take any town I want anyways, but being able to just play as a semi-pacifist is a different gameplay rout then being in wars all the time. It's fun to build up the towns.
 

AndrewArt

Sergeant
it's this thread
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/on-rebellions.436330/
I took the rebel's town. It's the same as an average town's power, not that it matters since they can't do much to me in the siege map. In other games I took 7-10 rebel towns without any war with major factions as an independent clan. If they make you go to war against a main faction then they might as well delete rebelions as it's the the same as taking any town. I can take any town I want anyways, but being able to just play as a semi-pacifist is a different gameplay rout then being in wars all the time. It's fun to build up the towns.
I see... but without wars it's a little immersion-breaking. I mean, if you were a king of a kingdom and a settlement rebelled against you, you would make considerable efforts to take the town back - no matter if it's the original rebel who controls it or another person. You would feel entitled to that settlement, especially since it's your culture of people. Asking to get fief back and losing reputation which will lead to wars eventually should in my opinion be a thing. Ok, not go to war instantly, so that a rebelled settlement is more distinguished than normal kingdom settlements, but still losing reputation and low reputation having more chances for war would be ideal. Otherwise it becomes exploitable and it doesn't make much sense to be that way, in neither realism or gameplay... And doesn't trading allow for a pacifist run anyway? But at least you have to work for it and you can't do that at the start of the game.

(offtopic: I also think there should be big bands of bandits raiding villages and if they get in big enough numbers maybe also raid settlements... I still hope for bandit heroes outside of hideouts, for more dynamic maps (rebellions, bandit take-over... I mean that's really cool).

For rebellions, it could be totally ok to avoid a war if you had high relationship with the kingdom's king and the lord that previously owned the rebelled fief. Let's say you lose 25 relationship with the king and the owner of the settlement (or if the king is the owner then you lose double the relationship with the king, so 50, so be careful of king's settlements! - those numbers are adjustable, it's just an example). Then, if you want to go for the semi-pacifist route, you must at least work for it a bit. Do quests for those lords until you have a 25 positive relationship. That way you don't go on the negative after capturing it and not giving it back, and you get no wars because nobody is voting to go to war with you. And if you actually work so much for this goal and you maintain positive relationships with all lords while conquering Calradia, I think that makes you a worthy ruler of the land, and nobody would really oppose that...And it makes more sense if you grind quests for a kingdom and have positive relations with the lords (like they actually know you), that they maybe wouldn't declare war on you if you took a rebel settlement. It's like, you never went to war with them, you didn't attack them, you did them favors... they'd be more forgiving I'd imagine. They might even consider you a possible ally - once alliances are implemented, hopefully. So this will make more sense then).

But definitely need some extra kind of grinding for it, otherwise it becomes the norm to play like that and it's too easy... don't know what the best solution is atm, but those are my thoughts. And if your kingdom is getting too big (either you buy many settlements or take them through rebellion), I think it would make sense for smaller kingdoms to start declaring war on you because they would fear eventually being taken over. I would make it so that if you have a kingdom of your own, and a main faction has less settlements than you, they would go to war with you trying to conquer the lands. It would also help snowbally from the bigger factions, because the more settlements one would get, the more chances for the small factions to declare war on it. Don't know if snowballing is a big issue anymore though
 
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AndrewArt

Sergeant
Trade doesn't allow for anything because it's a slow, miserable and broken skill.
true but many skills are that way. That's why I say fix leveling progression all the time. And I expect that they will, eventually, and it will become easier to accomplish that... it really can't stay the way it is now. Still, having positive relationship with lords = more chances for alliance, and having negative relationship with lords = more chances for war (vote against you), I mean that would be really cool for relationship. And taking a rebel settlement for yourself would decrease relationship (ok, by 10 with king, and by 20 with lord that previously held the settlement), so if you did some quests for them or served a while in their kingdom and grinded relationships, then you could be allowed to take a settlement without war penalty, since you still stay positive. Also it would make better use of the Charm skill tree, like social would be even more useful... along with trading it's like the pacifist perk trees. I think that's overall a better gameplay mechanic and more in-depth than it being exploitable with no efforts at all. I'd be happy with that. As for trading, once it gets easier to level, I do hope game doesn't become easy mode, and a suggestion like I said: if you get too many settlements, smaller factions will declare war on you, that would make sense).
 

Lesbosisles

Squire
they go to war
That would've completely ruined one of the opportunities to start your kingdom. You conquer the city from the existing faction = war you vs. the whole faction (almost instalose without abusing some bugs like constant retreating during city defense).

If taking a rebel city means once again instant war vs the whole faction - it will be the same thing as before rebels were implemented.
 

AndrewArt

Sergeant
That would've completely ruined one of the opportunities to start your kingdom. You conquer the city from the existing faction = war you vs. the whole faction (almost instalose without abusing some bugs like constant retreating during city defense).

If taking a rebel city means once again instant war vs the whole faction - it will be the same thing as before rebels were implemented.
not instant war, but reputation loss, and reputation loss = higher chances of war. So yeah, I do agree that it should be more unique in the sense that you don't go to war instantly. That will at least give you some time to reinforce your garrison and put up a good fight when you are besieged. I would like that. Also the gameplay would vary more, because you would conquer different settlements every game, since any settlement from any faction can rebel and that can give more replayability. Rebellions were implemented to stop snowballing by the AI, I really don't think they were implemented so players can take settlements in an easy abusable manner... but, this can be a perk of rebellions, to give player some time to gather troops before a war. Or grind relationships so that the relationship loss, won't put relations in the negative with the king and the respective lord that had the fief, so then you can take it without war consequences even, maybe. I'd like it like that, it really shouldn't be too easy as it is now though.

Also the abusable retreats shouldn't be a thing either. I'd never use them anyway, but seems like a thing that should be fixed
 

AnandaShanti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
not instant war, but reputation loss, and reputation loss = higher chances of war.
That's way off in the pie in the sky stuff still. In the same massive pile of "someday fix" with, armor, troops tier power, marriage, smithing, Clan orders, char development, raiding, trading, traits, siege pathfinding, pre-battle deployment.....

And TBF, the relations-war dynamic isn't even something they've fully acknowledged as something they must fix, it's just mentioned as "we would like that", but it could years or never before they add it.
 

AndrewArt

Sergeant
That's way off in the pie in the sky stuff still. In the same massive pile of "someday fix" with, armor, troops tier power, marriage, smithing, Clan orders, char development, raiding, trading, traits, siege pathfinding, pre-battle deployment.....

And TBF, the relations-war dynamic isn't even something they've fully acknowledged as something they must fix, it's just mentioned as "we would like that", but it could years or never before they add it.
There is already a relations-war dynamic from what I remember mexxico mentioning. Basically he wants relationship loss if you don't give back the settlement, and there is already more chance to being declared war upon if you have negative relations, and he wants to increase the impact of that. That's a start
 

AnandaShanti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
There is already a relations-war dynamic
There's not. Also nobody can declare war on you if you're independent. Also, if you become a kingdom the factions who originally owned the rebel town will absolutely declare war on you to get them back. Your chance goes from 0% as independent to basically 100% of being at war if you're a kingdom.
They could add these relation effects and I hope they do, but I'm waiting on a massive list of stuff somebody in TW would like to do or 'we're exploring it" and such.
If you have to fight an entire faction as independent, ever, then there's zero point to rebellions. I could just take a good town like Chaikand instead of stinky, poor, little Sargot.
 
Hello, will leveling progression be improved at one point? The system can be fine, it's just mainly balance and the limiter that lowers exp gained after level-ups that quite a few people don't like. I wish this is not the final system.

Also any clues about what we're getting in the next patch, and when we are getting it?
We are examining skill progression and potential improvements for it.

We don't comment too much on the content of patches before they are released as late bugs may force us to disable/remove parts. The same applies for dates since we typically release as soon as a patch is ready (aka clears final testing & review) and have no artificial delay / buffer for the sake of estimates/projections. However, if it hasn't come out by thursday night, it won't be released that week.

@Gortar @khuzait haircut The issue related to these reports is on our internal to-do list but comparatively low priority. Still, I have spoken with the relevant developer and he wants to try and examine / resolve the issue alongside his larger tasks. No specific eta, though.
 

AndrewArt

Sergeant
We are examining skill progression and potential improvements for it.

We don't comment too much on the content of patches before they are released as late bugs may force us to disable/remove parts. The same applies for dates since we typically release as soon as a patch is ready (aka clears final testing & review) and have no artificial delay / buffer for the sake of estimates/projections. However, if it hasn't come out by thursday night, it won't be released that week.

@Gortar @khuzait haircut The issue related to these reports is on our internal to-do list but comparatively low priority. Still, I have spoken with the relevant developer and he wants to try and examine / resolve the issue alongside his larger tasks. No specific eta, though.
thank you very much! That is what I needed to hear! I am glad the system will be improved... I feel like I've been waiting so long, and this confirmation that devs are looking into it does really put my mind at ease. Countless of good suggestions and feedback have been made so I trust in the developers decision on how to best improve the system. Once we get a better, more rewarding system I can truly enjoy the game, for me it's the biggest thing, so I truly appreciate the efforts and initiative.
Thank you 🙏
 
@Gortar @khuzait haircut The issue related to these reports is on our internal to-do list but comparatively low priority. Still, I have spoken with the relevant developer and he wants to try and examine / resolve the issue alongside his larger tasks. No specific eta, though.

Thanks for looking into this. You should reconsider your priorities to be honest. Many times glaring bugs or just plain missing features players want get their priority lowered. For example banners, sandbox mode, etc. Just my opinion.
 
Thanks for looking into this. You should reconsider your priorities to be honest. Many times glaring bugs or just plain missing features players want get their priority lowered. For example banners, sandbox mode, etc. Just my opinion.
Rest assured, banners and sandbox mode are both much higher priority than the bug you reported. Banners, however, are pending a more complex feature.
 
We are examining skill progression and potential improvements for it.

We don't comment too much on the content of patches before they are released as late bugs may force us to disable/remove parts. The same applies for dates since we typically release as soon as a patch is ready (aka clears final testing & review) and have no artificial delay / buffer for the sake of estimates/projections. However, if it hasn't come out by thursday night, it won't be released that week.

@Gortar @khuzait haircut The issue related to these reports is on our internal to-do list but comparatively low priority. Still, I have spoken with the relevant developer and he wants to try and examine / resolve the issue alongside his larger tasks. No specific eta, though.
Personally I don't care if something makes it into a patch or not. What I care about is the direction of the game and how the developers want to solve the fundamental issues of the current design or if they are even aware about it. Mexxico does that with the areas he works on and so far nobody blamed him when something didn't make it into the game. In fact, he pretty much is the favourite of the community even though he often shares bad news. So the 'we don't want to disappoint you / don't want to create false hopes' excuse doesn't count.

Most people here are adults, and those who aren't will complain anyway.

The skill / progression system is a good example, we pointed out that it's broken as soon as EA started. And so far we don't even know if the developers are aware of it. 🤷‍♂️

PS
Please don't take this personally, it's more of a general statement regarding the poor state of communication.
 
Please don't take this personally, it's more of a general statement regarding the poor state of communication.
I don't, but I think we are discussing different matters.

Specifics about upcoming patch content or dates are separate to the general discussion of feature or content ideas & problems.
 

Lesbosisles

Squire
I don't, but I think we are discussing different matters.

Specifics about upcoming patch content or dates are separate to the general discussion of feature or content ideas & problems.
I wonder if the crime syndicate function is still a thing. It was shown a few years ago on some Gamescom, I think, but now I don't see any difference between artisans, merchants and crime syndicates other than quests. Is it all still in development or abandoned long ago? Will we be able to create our own crime syndicate one day?
 
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