Beta Patch Notes e1.5.7

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Because

Sergeant
Buying 2 towns would only be if they are 1500 prosperity, with 3 mil you might get lucky to get 1 with 5k prosperity, as a vassal I can easily get 2 towns or castles and defend them so that point is not valid
second making 30,000 a day, that is someone holding 30 million. when I have 3 million that means with .1% interest that is 3k. which is fine but I guess like Warband we do need mods, heck can't get any help with for traders and they hit them again with spring of gold cap
Completely agree having tried a trader game getting to 10 million is a big achievement so getting to 30 in that time would be really tricky if not impossible and so it seems like such an outlying issue that it's odd that they chose to nerf it quite so much, you'd make that in any half decent battle or for that matter trade stop so it's not like it's game breaking. If nothing else I'd appreciate the cap to be higher say 2-3k instead.

I just hope they don't scrap everything has a price as it's one of the most interesting perks in the game as it gives you a real change to the dynamic. I know it offends some, but I love the idea of taking a town not by force and getting to 300 in trade is far, far harder than picking off a weak town from a distracted enemy already fighting on other fronts.
 

Bob Gnarly

Sergeant at Arms
Just an observation regarding culture. It's very powerful at the moment and also not sure how to offset it.

So I pretty much always play with Aseri or Vlandian culture as the bonuses for the others are pretty bad in comparison so in my current game I am a Northern imperial vassal and I have Vlandian culture. I noticed that my castle (imperial culture) is going to take 512 days (6+ ingame years) to build Lvl 2 walls. I traced this back to low loyalty which is due to my culture being different (-3) and my also Vlandian brother being governor (-1). So I switch him out for my Imperal wife and now the walls will take only 156 days and everyone is supper happy.

I accept that culture should be important but should it really be this important?

Chances are if you are a vassal of a non imperial faction then you will be awarded fiefs not of your culture as apart from the ones your fellow vassals already have, every single fief on the map is not your culture.
Given that there are no high steward companions, this limits your choice for governors to your wife/husband and only if you married one that is not of your culture.

In the above example I also have level 3 fairgrounds which is not good enough to help. at all really (+1.5)

Yeah culture is pretty powerful now and I'm still deciding whether I like the change or not. Need to test out a bit more.

It's a bit of a struggle building up loyalty in a settlement of a differing culture unless you have a decent governor, the right policies in place and are baby sit it ensuring that nothing gets raided and settlement/village quests are taken care of.

I do like the idea behind it though, just wonder if it could use some tweaking to get just right.
 

caledoni

Veteran
Yeah culture is pretty powerful now and I'm still deciding whether I like the change or not. Need to test out a bit more.

It's a bit of a struggle building up loyalty in a settlement of a differing culture unless you have a decent governor, the right policies in place and are baby sit it ensuring that nothing gets raided and settlement/village quests are taken care of.

I do like the idea behind it though, just wonder if it could use some tweaking to get just right.
For sure. At the moment your best bet if your non imperial is to make an educated guess at what cultures territory you will likely to conquer and go with them so you have a family of governers ready.
 
Completely agree having tried a trader game getting to 10 million is a big achievement so getting to 30 in that time would be really tricky if not impossible and so it seems like such an outlying issue that it's odd that they chose to nerf it quite so much, you'd make that in any half decent battle or for that matter trade stop so it's not like it's game breaking. If nothing else I'd appreciate the cap to be higher say 2-3k instead.

I just hope they don't scrap everything has a price as it's one of the most interesting perks in the game as it gives you a real change to the dynamic. I know it offends some, but I love the idea of taking a town not by force and getting to 300 in trade is far, far harder than picking off a weak town from a distracted enemy already fighting on other fronts.
I did two play throughs for TW one with 8 social and one with 10, it took me around 90 hours to do, and to try and show them that with 10 points 1300 days and 8 points 2200 days is way to long to trade and start a kingdom but no word from them on changing it, just a nerf to spring of gold.
Traders go hit hard lately,
1) Herd Penalty
2) Everything has a price moved from 225 to 300
3) caravan profits cut in half
4) spring of gold cap
It's just one thing after another, if they hate traders get rid of them don't nerf the crap out of them, Traders are not a viable build to really play when I can do so much more fighting, and to prove @mexxico wrong, I am doing a 1,000 day challenge to get 3 towns and hold them as a fighter, let's say easy task to do, that is till I get a bug that forces me to stop now, education system bug that triggers every 15 seconds and can't be stopped.
But doesn't really matter, you can prove TW wrong or show them how crazy something is and they just turn their head and ignore it
 

Apocal

Master Knight
I think you can get three towns in under one hundred days just by sniping factions and then peacing out. It would be pretty interesting for a one-tine challenge.
 
I think you can get three towns in under one hundred days just by sniping factions and then peacing out. It would be pretty interesting for a one-tine challenge.
a lot of people can get 3 towns and hold them in the current game, it's not hard and TW would know that if they played their game, but developing and testing can hold you back from the game itself and you can lose that gameplay since patches change things. They need to quit just assuming they know best and really investigate what people say and just don't dismiss it. Especially when they spend close to 100 hours doing tests for them. It can really hurt people and make them feel used when you don't take them seriously. Maybe I am just a little more sensative than most and people like to bash it, but when you spend so much time trying to help people realize that there is a problem with something you love so much(Bannerlord( and you are just cast aside it can really strike a cord with people. It can just make you care less and that is something I would thing TW would never want their community to feel. #SadKitten
 

TimIZ

Regular
M&BWB
I`m also getting sensitive when I see that the performance problems are moved to the Solved Issues forum while nothing is fixed at all. Not even a reaction after I spend a whole day figuring out which issue exists on which branch and what might be fixed or not.
 

Callum

Community Manager
Hotfix 21/01/21

Singleplayer
  • Fixed a crash related to trade penalties that were occurring when engaging looters. (Also in e1.5.6 hotfix.)
  • Swapped the Athletics and Riding skill ratings of the Sea Raider Chief troop.
  • Fixed the Duelist perk secondary effect, rewarding 300 renown for tournaments. (Also in e1.5.6 hotfix.)
  • Fixed the issue with the sorting feature not working as intended. (also in 1.5.6)
  • Fixed an issue that made young adults naked in civilian missions and the encyclopaedia. Please note that this fix only works on new campaigns.
  • Fixed an issue that led to uninitialised temporary parties that could hold nobles prisoner to exist longer than intended.
 
I did two play throughs for TW one with 8 social and one with 10, it took me around 90 hours to do, and to try and show them that with 10 points 1300 days and 8 points 2200 days is way to long to trade and start a kingdom but no word from them on changing it, just a nerf to spring of gold.
Traders go hit hard lately,
1) Herd Penalty
2) Everything has a price moved from 225 to 300
3) caravan profits cut in half
4) spring of gold cap
It's just one thing after another, if they hate traders get rid of them don't nerf the crap out of them, Traders are not a viable build to really play when I can do so much more fighting, and to prove @mexxico wrong, I am doing a 1,000 day challenge to get 3 towns and hold them as a fighter, let's say easy task to do, that is till I get a bug that forces me to stop now, education system bug that triggers every 15 seconds and can't be stopped.
But doesn't really matter, you can prove TW wrong or show them how crazy something is and they just turn their head and ignore it
I had the same experience, I tried a trader playthrough and it was fun for a time, my goal was to reach 1mil as an independend trader. It took a long time to reach. After that I started my own kingdom and was waging wars non-stop. reached 5mil pretty fast by selling al the loot.
I had no problem with the slow pace while I was trading, but the rapid increase afterwards made it feel like a waste of time.
 

Bigmac78

Recruit
I did two play throughs for TW one with 8 social and one with 10, it took me around 90 hours to do, and to try and show them that with 10 points 1300 days and 8 points 2200 days is way to long to trade and start a kingdom but no word from them on changing it, just a nerf to spring of gold.
Traders go hit hard lately,
1) Herd Penalty
2) Everything has a price moved from 225 to 300
3) caravan profits cut in half
4) spring of gold cap
It's just one thing after another, if they hate traders get rid of them don't nerf the crap out of them, Traders are not a viable build to really play when I can do so much more fighting, and to prove @mexxico wrong, I am doing a 1,000 day challenge to get 3 towns and hold them as a fighter, let's say easy task to do, that is till I get a bug that forces me to stop now, education system bug that triggers every 15 seconds and can't be stopped.
But doesn't really matter, you can prove TW wrong or show them how crazy something is and they just turn their head and ignore it
I fully support Flesson here. As I posted in #496, you are killing trading as a way of playing (not even winning) the game. Really, it is waaaayyy easier to get fiefs easily before day 1000 just by taking them by force. 30 M in the bank, showing one screenshot? That is really the reasoning for nerfing Spring of Gold? I had around 3.5 M around day 1000 when I reached 300 in trade with 10/5 attribute/ focus. That person with the screenshot probably reached it by selling smithed items aside trading. So start treating the disease instead of the symptoms and fix smithed item prices. I just tested it again. After 1 h of real time playing, around day 60 in game, I "luckily" unlocked the falx blade and was able to start producing 100k weapons. @mexxico
 

Blood Gryphon

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBVC
a lot of people can get 3 towns and hold them in the current game, it's not hard and TW would know that if they played their game, but developing and testing can hold you back from the game itself and you can lose that gameplay since patches change things. They need to quit just assuming they know best and really investigate what people say and just don't dismiss it. Especially when they spend close to 100 hours doing tests for them. It can really hurt people and make them feel used when you don't take them seriously. Maybe I am just a little more sensative than most and people like to bash it, but when you spend so much time trying to help people realize that there is a problem with something you love so much(Bannerlord( and you are just cast aside it can really strike a cord with people. It can just make you care less and that is something I would thing TW would never want their community to feel. #SadKitten
First off we all appreciate your testing, but no one owes you anything man, gotta drop that attitude it will only lead to disappointment. Not one single person, even mex, gets every change they want because the vision is in the big boss mans hands (who no longer joins us on the forums). Most of my ideas and things I've tested about aren't accepted, and that's completely okay and understandable.

Keep testing, show them what you find and maybe they'll listen, but stop the "you owe me because I tested". It doesn't help prove your point.

As far as your 4 "nerfs":

1) Herd Penalty was non-existence before, the current 2 horses per troop limit is completely reasonable.
2) This perk should be deleted and players should just have the option to trade/purchase fiefs from the start for a ridiculous price. (don't put trading fiefs to recruit lords behind a perk)
3) Is this even true? I still get days where my caravan can hit 1k profit
4) Its the exact same until you get past 1 million, and its a passive income. How in the world does this ruin trading? 1k gold a day is still huge and basically a free caravan or two, do you really deserve more than that? No. Also its suppose to be an investment, but you don't even sacrifice your gold or have any risk of losing it. Doesn't sound like a real investment to me. If you were handing over your gold to a towns "bank" (with the risk of losing it if the town is taken) for a higher daily income, then this would be different. Instead you just get free money with no risk of an actual investment.

Also no one said you trading to get fiefs should be comparable to fighting for fiefs. It is a fighting game with trading, not a trading game with fighting. So of course you should be able to fight for 3 towns before 1000 days, buying 3 towns before 1000 days is just cheesing the game.


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KucukEniste

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
you are killing trading as a way of playing
Spring of gold gives you passive income. Which after a threshold of some money, it discourages you to play as an active trader. Your argument contradicts itself. Spring of gold doesn't make you to trade more, it makes you money when you do nothing about trading.
 
I had the same experience, I tried a trader playthrough and it was fun for a time, my goal was to reach 1mil as an independend trader. It took a long time to reach. After that I started my own kingdom and was waging wars non-stop. reached 5mil pretty fast by selling al the loot.
I had no problem with the slow pace while I was trading, but the rapid increase afterwards made it feel like a waste of time.
And this is the problem, the game's balancing is a complete mess. I really find it quite amusing that the same people who side with TW on about every issue have agreed that trading is now balanced. Why bother trading in this game? You have to have balance and this is certainly not that.

It's going to take complete modding overhauls to fix the issues in the game's economic system aside from a lack of interesting non fast paced action battle things to do.
 
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Dabos37

Sergeant Knight
I had the same experience, I tried a trader playthrough and it was fun for a time, my goal was to reach 1mil as an independend trader. It took a long time to reach. After that I started my own kingdom and was waging wars non-stop. reached 5mil pretty fast by selling al the loot.
I had no problem with the slow pace while I was trading, but the rapid increase afterwards made it feel like a waste of time.

Yep, loot is still insanely high, especially when we are still able to win battles with easy with almost 0 losses and defeat tons of lords in a row, like if we would be fighting looters (T5 ranged units make things ridiculously easy).

Trading income is OK and feel strong enough IMO, while the money we get in battles is clearly OP and too high.
 
Spring of gold gives you passive income. Which after a threshold of some money, it discourages you to play as an active trader. Your argument contradicts itself. Spring of gold doesn't make you to trade more, it makes you money when you do nothing about trading.

It is actually your argument that contradicts itself, to get to spring of gold the player had to spend hours trading, so yeah, seeing the perk motivates you to trade and achieve it. Nerfing it just reduces the motivation to spend hours to reach it. I mean, why bother? Just fight a couple of battles and sell the loot, you will get more than spring of gold could ever provide you.
 
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It is actually your argument that contradicts itself, to get to spring of gold the player had to spent hours trading, so yeah, seeing the perk motivates you to trade and achieve it. Nerfing it just reduces the motivation to spend hours to reach it. I mean, why bother? Just fight a couple of battles and sell the loot, you will get more than spring of gold could ever provide you.

Exactly, not sure why this is hard for some people.
 

Bigmac78

Recruit
Spring of gold gives you passive income. Which after a threshold of some money, it discourages you to play as an active trader. Your argument contradicts itself. Spring of gold doesn't make you to trade more, it makes you money when you do nothing about trading.
In my oppinion, trading is not an end in itself. You don't trade for trading's sake but to bring you into a position to conquer the world.
I mean, what is the final goal of the game? World domination :wink:.
I agree with some here that of course Bannerlord is a war game. Is trading / running caravans / maintaining workshops really viable as soon as you created your own kingdom? Not really. You will be forced into wars (which is fine, don't get me wrong) and that is usually when the half-life of your caravans and workshops is drastically reduced and when you are not able to continue trading anymore.
I would understand if - following your argumentation - the perk would have been replaced with a perk which boosts the amount of caravans or workshops you could run - but just capping it at 1k?
Have you played the game as a trader? Doesn't sound like. I have now around 1100 hours in the game and tried different styles which I all mostly enjoyed. The game will benefit from different, viable ways to play it. Be it as a warlord, as a trader or a bandit king. Making it as versatile as possible will attract more people leading ultimately to more copies downloaded. If it is the idea to force everyone to going the mercenary / vassal route, well, the game will still be fun to play and diverse but it could just be better.
 

tlowey

Sergeant
In my oppinion, trading is not an end in itself. You don't trade for trading's sake but to bring you into a position to conquer the world.
I mean, what is the final goal of the game? World domination :wink:.
I agree with some here that of course Bannerlord is a war game. Is trading / running caravans / maintaining workshops really viable as soon as you created your own kingdom? Not really. You will be forced into wars (which is fine, don't get me wrong) and that is usually when the half-life of your caravans and workshops is drastically reduced and when you are not able to continue trading anymore.
I would understand if - following your argumentation - the perk would have been replaced with a perk which boosts the amount of caravans or workshops you could run - but just capping it at 1k?
Have you played the game as a trader? Doesn't sound like. I have now around 1100 hours in the game and tried different styles which I all mostly enjoyed. The game will benefit from different, viable ways to play it. Be it as a warlord, as a trader or a bandit king. Making it as versatile as possible will attract more people leading ultimately to more copies downloaded. If it is the idea to force everyone to going the mercenary / vassal route, well, the game will still be fun to play and diverse but it could just be better.
Totally agree with your post I would like to know how many people who agree with the 1000 cap have actually traded. As you know if you get to 300 you deserve some decent perks but a 1000 denars no thanks.
 
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