Beta Patch Notes e1.5.4

[stevehoos]

I've noticed it too . Looks like caravans can't manage with herd penalty . Too easy on pray.

Whoops, re computing.

 

[High Solar]

I do wish to see a bodyslider in the next patch and fixes to the economy and smithing. The state of the economy really puts me off from playing right now, especially combined with the missing items and how smithing is functioning and for how much you can sell stuff.

I saw the developer update they showcased and even though they showed off some interesting stuff, it doesn't excite me nor does it make the early stages of the game or even in fact mid and late game that more exciting. Sure education for the kids is nice and all but come on, we need fixes on the economy and some added new features like rebellions and alliances.

 

[tlowey]

I've noticed it too . Looks like caravans can't manage with herd penalty . Too easy on pray.

Oh wow I was catching and killing them really easy as a merc thought I had got my army composition just right. Now I find out they are just slow. Another well thought out TW decision.

 

[Reiksmarshal]

Range experience - Currently the way range xp works doesn't reward good gameplay, you basically get a little bit of xp no matter where you hit. There should be bonus xp for headshots giving the player bonus xp for making good shots for players getting their William Tell on. Maybe it could even be linked to damage. The current system feels so bland and makes you want to exploit it because of that, been trying to get my crossbow skill to 150 and it feels like an impossible grind without the killing allies exploit. I really hope this is something that gets addressed with the range upgrades.

The way xp use to work for lances was awesome as it rewarded taking risk of going in and doing couched lance attacks, now it is lame and you get what feels like that same xp from a limp wrist thrust attack. I wish you guys would go back to that system at least as far as the more damage you do the more xp you get.

Force spear/polearm use - There really needs to be a command to get troops to use their spears, I made a pikeman unit and they all stand there with swords out. It would make for much better infantry unit combat as you could do a mix of pikes and voulges and kind of create Flemish or Swiss infantry type tactics. Now they just stand around with swords and get their ass kicked, hope you guys can add a command to force use polearms. Nothing worse than training a bunch of units up to pikeman to find out they are completely useless.

 

[Eugene Shutto]

There should be bonus xp for headshots giving the player bonus xp for making good shots for players getting their William Tell on. Maybe it could even be linked to damage

I think it actually does . I feel like I get more exp via headshop rather shot in a leg , and distance matters too. But it's just my feelings. I can't prove it with facts.

get my crossbow skill to 150 and it feels like an impossible grind without the killing allies exploit.

With that I agree 100% . It's too slow .
Though, if it will be faster then it's gonna be too easy , I dunno , feels like xp modifiers in difficulty menu will satisfy everyone.

 

[AJAJP_Juan]

Range experience - Currently the way range xp works doesn't reward good gameplay, you basically get a little bit of xp no matter where you hit. There should be bonus xp for headshots giving the player bonus xp for making good shots for players getting their William Tell on.

The current system doesnt take in account only hits, but how much damage you deal, for all weapons. And IIRC the current formula is a bit messed up, since it actually gives a bonus XP for high difficulty shots and headshots, but only when mounted on horseback.

 

[PeteSKTemplar]

Oh as if just range exp was problem no matter the weapon. Sometimes I wonder whether ppl tried other skills too to level up. Main requirenment is to not level up anything else much than your main skill you want because there is crazy penalty for exp with higher levels.

For example bow from horse is too easy to level up - ofc talking about farming looters. Crossbow is worse in case of dreaming to get on the horse soon but if shooting at max range (I find it better to use 3rd person view) it is going up fine but it is totally pointless to shoot from close range if skill is higher, just retreat and shoot again from distance.

Problem is and a big one that athletics get so funny little exp if shooting from foot but riding is going up crazy (same with riding when using melee). But athletics is bad with cut and blunt dmg just pierce looters by thrusting and it goes up ok but if player wants be 1h polearm and using shield for shield perks are just on onehanded as if polearm skill were for 2handed only. I would give onehanded polearms to o1h skill too.

I leveled up also throwing with last char but main problem can not be solved with so few missiles why should I bother with heavy bags of javelins where every miss is very costly but very easy to do unlike other ranged weapons. It would be only ok for me if it was for Vigor line so melee oriented class could still do something at range (perhaps switching with polearm skill so range oriented class could have very good polearm skill pool).

Right now I am most angry how AI do not recognize map real path but calculates via air path - with no water and mountains. For example I just quit (ragequit - have to admit) now when seeing how Raganvald created army close to Nevyansk castle I joined him but he was traveling to point to village on the oposite side of that norhern peninsula - Ustokol village if I recall so visually if there was no sea/water it would be ok but going whole week around to gather forces then going back gives enemy time to get another casle or even city. It is just unbeareable (as old bad looking soldiers and weak armor for better is unavaliable was not enough).

 

[Eugene Shutto]

Dou

For example I just quit (ragequit - have to admit) now when seeing how Raganvald created army close to Nevyansk castle I joined him but he was traveling to point to village on the oposite side of that norhern peninsula - Ustokol village if I recall so visually if there was no sea/water it would be ok but going whole week around to gather forces then going back gives enemy time to get another casle or even city. It is just unbeareable.

It is so familiar. We need bridge across this bay , or sturgia will stay weak as it is.

 

[Delinard]

Speaking of range XP, why does using melee weapons on horseback increase riding skill so slow compared to using a bow, it always felt really slow, then i tried horse archery and it increases your riding skill so much more, meanwhile it would take like 15 melee hits to increase riding from 50 to 51, but with bow i was able to get so much more without it being a huge grind.

 

[Firunien]

Speaking of range XP, why does using melee weapons on horseback increase riding skill so slow compared to using a bow, it always felt really slow, then i tried horse archery and it increases your riding skill so much more, meanwhile it would take like 15 melee hits to increase riding from 50 to 51, but with bow i was able to get so much more without it being a huge grind.

It's just a feeling but xp seems to be related to relative speed an attack has, the more the better, with a bow you get plus ~ 30 m/s by default.

 

[Reiksmarshal]

Xp really needs to be reviewed, just seems like something is not right after trying to grind a few characters up in last couple of patches. I haven't played a horse archer lately but mostly on foot.

 

[Adryl]

I think it actually does . I feel like I get more exp via headshop rather shot in a leg , and distance matters too. But it's just my feelings. I can't prove it with facts.

Yes, experience is directly tied to damage as far as I know. Not a headshot in particular but shots that do more damage and are more difficult and on higher tier units give more exp as I understand it.

 

[Reiksmarshal]

I dont think it does at least as a foot archer/crossbowman. I was counting my shots as I leveled and after I reached level 100 it was around 12 shots no matter where I hit to get a skill up and it went up from there to crazy amounts of kills. I had a siege where I killed 124 most where head shots and I went up 3 skills.

 

[PeteSKTemplar]

As I wrote the distance is a key with higher range skill and ofc headshots. With bro we both experienced that while neck takes high dmg like head it gives less exp it seems (besides there are some perks for headshot dmg) also pierce dmg was better against head than blunt training bolts back then when were avaliable.

Higher tier units are only good for roguery it seems for they have better gear so you do less dmg in comparison to looters. Only exemption I might add is ofc if high tier cavalry is at full galop against you when crazy movement speed bonus to dmg renders his armor to "texture" but in general I find it much easier to solo looters farming to level up my skills (to get athletics 1h thrusting or spear - easier with reach but pole has no shield perk). When I have army and join faction then my leveling of fighting skill usually slows so first solo for me.

When I wanted to get xbow on horse I avoided tournaments to not level up other skills just xbow looter shooting for penalty on exp with higher level pushes that 175 perk to far far away galaxy.

 

[Pentagathoos]

I like that armour works against cut damage quite well now atm, but I think cut needs to have a slightly higher damage modifier on the head. With a low level in one handed I seem to do less than 10 damage on foot against forest bandit boss with an overhead sword slash hitting his head (he has a mail coif iirc). Whilst a rock thrown by a looter can do as much or more damage hitting my mail armoured body. This is with a low level character so maybe it's not noticeable once you've got some skillz, but considering I can easily win tournament fights against heavily armoured troops it's a bit of a weird inbalance.

 

[PeteSKTemplar]

I do not know if that would be possible for the engine but every weapon should be able to do not just particular type of dmg like cut, blunt, pierce but just pure weight of weapon plus your weight (armor included) and speed should add some blunt dmg (being in heavy gear with effect like almost mounted on a light horse). Onehanded axes especially are the case where I miss second type of dmg most for in reality an axe was not just for cut dmg but also almost mace for blunt dmg too which now in game always just wound enemy but in reality it was easily killing ppl not just wounding them (particularly when hitting head).

Perhaps you can recall how Robert the Bruce defeated (killed) English knights with his axe while his squire using sword was just lucky to live long enough that Robert could help him (sword is not worse (besides more expensive) but different ofc also for defence unlike axe/mace pure offensive weapon (but with shield np).

Even in case of great sword if hiting heavy armor which would stop cut dmg but still recieved that force - blunt dmg - enemy could be defeated with it even though with no cut wound just beating all energy out of him.

 

[Reiksmarshal]

Looter rocks still are way too good, they should have less of them and still drop the accuracy a bit. I picked up some rocks and holy **** are the those things accurate compared to other thrown weapons.

 

[PeteSKTemplar]

Looter rocks still are way too good, they should have less of them and still drop the accuracy a bit. I picked up some rocks and holy **** are the those things accurate compared to other thrown weapons.

Those are good to know when to retreat and shoot in another fight to get more exp for shooting them from their range is waste of oportunity to get more exp from larger distance

 

[Reiksmarshal]

Also camels don't show up in the shops or villages, would like to use them as pack animals for my character caravan.

 

[Apocal]

Speaking of range XP, why does using melee weapons on horseback increase riding skill so slow compared to using a bow, it always felt really slow, then i tried horse archery and it increases your riding skill so much more, meanwhile it would take like 15 melee hits to increase riding from 50 to 51, but with bow i was able to get so much more without it being a huge grind.

As a modder who actually looked at the game code i can explain why riding levels so damn fast with archery.
Short version: riding skill xp = damage * shot difficulty * shot difficulty.

Spoiler

public static void OnCombatHit(
CharacterObject affectorCharacter,
CharacterObject affectedCharacter,
Hero captainHero,
Hero commander,
float speedBonusFromMovement,
float shotDifficulty,
WeaponComponentData affectorWeapon,
float hitPointRatio,
CombatXpModel.MissionTypeEnum missionType,
bool isAffectorMounted,
bool isTeamKill,
bool isAffectorUnderCommand,
float damageAmount,
bool isFatal)
{
float f = 1f;
if (isTeamKill)
return;
if (affectorCharacter.IsHero)
{
Hero heroObject = affectorCharacter.HeroObject;
int xpAmount;
Campaign.Current.Models.CombatXpModel.GetXpFromHit(heroObject.CharacterObject, affectedCharacter, heroObject.PartyBelongedTo?.Party, (int) damageAmount, isFatal, missionType, out xpAmount);
f = (float) xpAmount;
if (affectorWeapon != null)
{
SkillObject skillForWeapon = Campaign.Current.Models.CombatXpModel.GetSkillForWeapon(affectorWeapon);
float num = skillForWeapon == DefaultSkills.Bow ? 0.5f : 1f;
if ((double) shotDifficulty > 0.0)
f += (float) MBMath.Floor(f * num * Campaign.Current.Models.CombatXpModel.GetXpMultiplierFromShotDifficulty(shotDifficulty));
heroObject.AddSkillXp(skillForWeapon, (float) MBRandom.RoundRandomized(f));
}
else
heroObject.AddSkillXp(DefaultSkills.Athletics, (float) MBRandom.RoundRandomized(f));
if (isAffectorMounted)
{
float num1 = 0.1f;
if ((double) speedBonusFromMovement > 0.0)
num1 *= 1f + speedBonusFromMovement;
else if ((double) shotDifficulty - 1.0 > 0.0)
{
int num2 = MathF.Round(shotDifficulty - 1f);
if (num2 > 0)
num1 += (float) num2;
}
if ((double) num1 > 0.0)
heroObject.AddSkillXp(DefaultSkills.Riding, (float) MBRandom.RoundRandomized(num1 * f));
}
else
{
float num = 0.2f;
if ((double) speedBonusFromMovement > 0.0)
num += 1.5f * speedBonusFromMovement;
if ((double) num > 0.0)
heroObject.AddSkillXp(DefaultSkills.Athletics, (float) MBRandom.RoundRandomized(num * f));
}
}
if (commander == null || commander == affectorCharacter.HeroObject || commander.PartyBelongedTo == null)
return;
SkillLevelingManager.OnTacticsUsed(commander.PartyBelongedTo, (float) MathF.Ceiling(0.02f * f));
}

Yes indeed. The game practically squares the shot difficult resulting in a way too high xp gain for riding.
Also archery levels faster than melee skills because of the extra xp from shot difficulty while melee is based purely on damage.