Beta Patch Notes e1.4.2

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Are you saying that the economy stabilizes as you get further or that the balance of the economy starts to feel better as you go on? I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong but I'm still in the early game so maybe I need to be patient.

Your economics basically changes over time. Initially you will likely be getting gold from looter loot and/or tournaments/prizes.

After a while you can start bulk trading, supplemented by workshops. I don't want to get into the details (given they will invariably change) but I typically hit a capacity of about 50k carry weight. Don't ask me how many horses that is. I only use Sumpter Horses (freight), Desert Horses (troop movement), and Aserai Horses (me and my companions), although just use whatever works. I obtain most horses (and grain) from the southwestern Aserai city (Askar) or nearby.

Except this will only get you so far. The problem is that trade requires spending time moving/working for gold, and there's a cap on how much of that you can do. Moreover, you don't really have the time past a certain point (as some kingdoms might get too powerful)...

Next comes the difficult part. Personally I don't play as a vassal (ever), so can't comment on that. As a ruler you have to set up a kingdom, which is the key to unlocking income from settlements. Getting the first castle is hard, and by far the most difficult thing I experience in Bannerlord. Specifically, you're in a situation where you don't have many troops, you don't have many (if any) vassal clans, and even with trade your budget is likely to be tight. It's all about acquiring the men, and funding them. At this stage my income can go severely negative, so I save as much as I can beforehand.

Once you've got a castle, everything changes. You can form a kingdom, which means you can use an army and send companions out to recruit for you (and add them to your army when they've got enough men). You can now keep men in the garrison, which helps for defence and reserves, but also if you need to send companions out to recruit even more troops.

You might still be running a large deficit, but don't panic; your companions recruit men rapidly (far faster than the player). While doing this your companions also seem to boost local relations where they are at (not sure how), and this helps a lot with your own recruiting over the long term.

The next target is a city. Launch everything you have at it, even if it means sacrificing the castle. It's best to pick somewhere with good potential (ie., big/prosperous) and good access, but beggars can't be choosers so if push comes to shove just grab whatever you can get. Big cities are likely to be heavily defended.

Once you have a city (and hopefully still a castle) you should see a significant boost to your income. You also have a stash to store tens of thousands of grain and other food, which will be needed to feed a huge army (bearing in mind lords might tend to use your food while in your army). Personally at this stage I try to keep expanding using only my companions for as long as possible in order to retain the fiefs (or use a mod for keeping fiefs), although eventually you will need other clans to help supply troops and keep the enemy busy. The more settlements you control directly, the bigger your income.

Given you keep expanding and continue to accumulate settlements then you will reach the point where income from settlements dwarfs any income from trade. Trade and workshops become obsolete, although you will want to maintain a fairly large capacity (horses) for moving vast amounts of food and men around.

So don't worry too much about trade. Trade is merely an intermediate step before you move onto much bigger things (i.e., income from settlements).
 
Well, I understand that general dynamic and growth process because I've played Mount and Blade since before Warband was released. But, if we compare to Warband for example, I was able to make profitable trades without bulk trading. Bulk trading helped as I grew but it wasn't necessary to reach that level to be profitable.

As I've continued my play through I've been able to find slightly better trades - it looks like it takes a few months before prices stabilize. I'm a vassal and can still barely afford 20 men.
 
Personally I don't play as a vassal (ever), so can't comment on that.
You're most likely ending up with a newly conquered utterly devastated fief that will take in-game months to recover (and at least weeks before you can put in any meaningful garrizon presence or accumulate enough militia to avoid enemy beelining for it).

It becomes the worst of both worlds - you need a decent force to keep it from being raided/retaken, but don't get the financial backing from the fiefs themselves. You can't leave the place to trade, or accompany armies of your kingdom, for the same reason.

Basically have to pre-vassal (preferably as mercenary, since paradoxically it lets you enjoy all the advantages of "vassal" play without any drawbacks) your way into large enough money surpluss to ignore the fief that was supposed to be your prize for joining the faction and/or preferably arrange capture of a much more desirable location before declaring your vassalage.

The real late-game money is in larger scale battles - both loot and ransom.

It's really annoying how continuously nerfed workshops and trade got. I was hoping to be able to do "rich Asserai merchant-prince" playthrough when things weren't so grindy and "everything has a price" my way into an empire :sad:
 
Best way to play the faction you want as ruler for me is to joina as vassal. Do as much quest as possible to get rep with the other lords. Voting for them to gain fiefs gains a huge amount of relations. When the time is right i leave the kingdom with my castles or cities. This will bump down the rep to 40 from 100. Then i make peace and have high relations to them still.

Easiest way and what i hope for is my faction loosing the war! Then you can vote when you reclaim your factions cities or towns to take them yourself. Then just defend those, watch your faction goes to rubble, and the other lords will leave. Then you leave and recruit the other lords where you have super high relations with and conquer your former factions leaders fiefs. Thats so wierd about this game. If you want to play as ruler on current factions you either has to do this or join the nemesis faction and conquer the fiefs from their side and then join. Hopefully the will be rebelleion of some sort or something.
 
Also thinking about starting a new campaign here.

Should I start asap or wait for a new patch/update tonight?
 
There's too much economy talk for me the quote just one person, but here's my take.
Traders are annoyed that they can't grind trading skill/profit as easily or quickly as they could before.
Sure you can make a profit here and there but we all know what gamers want.....
They want to crank that skill up non -stop until they have the perk to buy fiefs and the denars to use it.
Anything that slows this down is going to feel unfair to them. I'm sure some Dev read people bragging about buying towns and taking over the map like that and they didn't want that to be too easy. I think one even posted as much. What's more various patches have changed trading viability both by mistake and on purpose. I don't know what's what. Of course some players don't want to crank up trading, they just want passive income before they start going to war..... nope! I understand that it must be hard to fine tune workshops and caravan profits but I do think passive income to cover a 100 man or less party should be something people can do if they want. Personally I stopped using caravans and workshops but I must say, no passive income encourages very aggressive game play. In my current game I have like 5 towns a 5 castles as a lone clan. Why? Why do I need so much? Because no matter what I did I saw the -1200 or something some times at the end of the day and I felt insecure! I needed more! More fiefs = more men = more cost and so on! Yes I have 1.5 million denars, but it's all from the constant lord grinding that goes with taking land! Someday it will run out, even now. Yes I could kick out some dudes until it evens out..... but I wont, I'll just take more and more!

I don't play as trader other then just to try it in earlier versions but what I find fault with is this: Once a player has to become dependent on battle loots, trading is ruined! In earlier builds I made some trade profit using the starting 1k and felt it worked well, like I could go on that way if I wished. Now, based on people complaints, that doesn't seem so. If a player needs to save up money from bandits and tournaments to make trading viable, they might as well just go to war.
Killing bandits levels your troops, leveled troops need more money, you need to kill more, you level troops more..... before you know it you should just be taking down lords, not carting around turnips and diamonds (add them please). Once you taste sweet blood money there's no going back to trading!

Also, I haven't used a caravan lately, but they way people complain about them I'd doubt they're any better then just letting a companion run wild. I'm surprised by the denars they add to the day sometimes.
 
I'm not a fan of this "one update every 3 weeks" program that just delivers bug fixes. I hope they release the Mod Tools ASAP so we can finally start filling out this game with content
 
Can I make a formal request? During a siege, if the enemy has less than, say, 5% of your troops AND no troops have been killed in the last 30 seconds or minute, the siege is automatically ended.

Can we please have fail-safes to prevent sieges from being incomplete when the enemy has a single AI stuck somewhere my troops nor I can get to, and I have to redo the whole siege because of this. Just add a fail-safe and you'll be saving a lot of us a lot of time.
 
Can I make a formal request? During a siege, if the enemy has less than, say, 5% of your troops AND no troops have been killed in the last 30 seconds or minute, the siege is automatically ended.

Can we please have fail-safes to prevent sieges from being incomplete when the enemy has a single AI stuck somewhere my troops nor I can get to, and I have to redo the whole siege because of this. Just add a fail-safe and you'll be saving a lot of us a lot of time.

You should be able to click retreat in the middle of the siege and siege again without losing the "progress", unless they patched this out. So you will reset the position of the troops.

^ This is also a way to cheese the game so.. don't make it a habit, unless you like playing like that.
 
There's too much economy talk for me the quote just one person, but here's my take.
Traders are annoyed that they can't grind trading skill/profit as easily or quickly as they could before.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I honestly don't care about the trading perks - they're not part of the equation here for me. And I don't want to "grind" at anything, battles, trade or anything else.

If the consensus is that trading is "fair" as is, I'm fine with that. But, at the moment, I can't really say that trade is a good path for me. Whereas in Warband I usually started as a trader and could field 30-40 men running a route between two cities in distance about halfway across the map from each other.

I'm open minded though and will continue to play and see how it goes. This isn't Warband and a realistic, evolving economy would be preferred anyway.
 
@Duh_TaleWorlds , can I make a small bug report concerning a new quest which has been added with the 1.4.2 patch - namely quest "Scout Enemy Garrison". Has it really been added? I've started a completely new game using only one mod "Training fields by Xoberax", and the quest never appears at any army. I even checked the issues list using a console command - the quest never appears in any issue list (here's the screenshot of the issues list). Is this a bug?
 
@Duh_TaleWorlds , can I make a small bug report concerning a new quest which has been added with the 1.4.2 patch - namely quest "Scout Enemy Garrison". Has it really been added? I've started a completely new game using only one mod "Training fields by Xoberax", and the quest never appears at any army. I even checked the issues list using a console command - the quest never appears in any issue list (here's the screenshot of the issues list). Is this a bug?
I am not sure about the issue preconditions offhand, but if it never appears either those conditions are too strict or it is a bug. I can give design & QA a shout, though, generally it would be good to share these reports in the dedicated section. Sometimes it can take a bit of time (going through internal investigation and verification over to the actual resolution), but those topics are checked and processed.
 
I am not sure about the issue preconditions offhand, but if it never appears either those conditions are too strict or it is a bug. I can give design & QA a shout, though, generally it would be good to share these reports in the dedicated section. Sometimes it can take a bit of time (going through internal investigation and verification over to the actual resolution), but those topics are checked and processed.
When I updated from 1.4.1 to 1.4.2, I was blaming the fact that I use an old save with the new version (sometimes it causes problems). But, if that was the problem, than a new game with a completely new character should've solved it but unfortunately that didn't happen. Alrighty, I can create a ticket at the "Bugs" section, thank you for your quick feedback!

P.S. I've tried once asking other forum members if they have the same problem as I do - but my question was either ignored or not noticed... Looks like the players hardly do any quests at the moment :grin:

P.P.S. The topic on the issue has been created :smile:
 
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Also thinking about starting a new campaign here.

Should I start asap or wait for a new patch/update tonight?

I usually don't play the Beta patches. I wanted to try the 1.4.2 patch since it has much improved Kingdom Management from 1.4.1. I started a play through on the 1.4.2 Beta patch early this week and it's pretty fun and stable.

1.4.2 is way better if you're looking to create a kingdom although it's still far from perfect.
 
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