Beta e1.7.2 Troop & Equipment Changes

[ImperialDane]

Palatine Guards do indeed feel fairly underwhelming even before this nerf, especially compared to the Sergeant Crossbowmen who can also double as fairly decent infantry.

In Comparison the Palatine Guards .. well lack that Palatine Guards element to them. They're just glorified archers at this point. Might as well just give the title to the Sergeant Crossbowmen at this point.

 

[five bucks]

Hey @Dejan any news on changes about hired mercenaries? Like it was discussed in the another thread, all these mercenaries are underperforming quite drastically and mostly because of their equipment.

Any possibilities that they'll also undergo equipment changes considering other units are?

+1, generic mercenary troops are slaughtered very very easily by regular faction troops of the same tier.

Also while we're talking changes that can be made in XML, the Legion of the Betrayed, Skolderbroda and Ghilman should have a T5 troop, considering they're meant to be elite warriors.

 

[Slithy]

Finally bolts do something!

 

[Bzhydack]

This was done intentionally in a balancing effort and forces the player to use Palatine Guards strategically.

To use Palatine Guard strategically, they need to be in something better than other archers. But they are not. Heck, better is to recruit Bucellari, and dismount them before fight. Sure, Palatine Guard is best armored from all archers, but armor is not really important for ranged units.
But you dont want to give them second stack of arrows (due fact they have best bow) so I have another suggestion.
Give them shield.
With shield they really will gain ability to be used "strategically" because player would decide if he want to deploy them early with bows, and strike, or wait utill enemy shoot all arrows. It would allow player to many advanced tactics, like dividing Guards into two groups, one guarding another. It would also make them much stronger than other archers in meele, giving them unique advantage over other archers, and also reinforce their theme as "Highly durable shoters"

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

Palatine Guards used to be the most heavily armoured archers around that weren't noble, which fit the Empire dealio. They aren't really anymore though, so now they don't really compete with everyone else. Especially Master Archers who are just better than them.

 

[Dejan]

Hey @Dejan any news on changes about hired mercenaries? Like it was discussed in the another thread, all these mercenaries are underperforming quite drastically and mostly because of their equipment.

Any possibilities that they'll also undergo equipment changes considering other units are?

+1, generic mercenary troops are slaughtered very very easily by regular faction troops of the same tier.

Nothing I can share at the moment but will follow up once I can.

Palatine Guards do indeed feel fairly underwhelming even before this nerf, especially compared to the Sergeant Crossbowmen who can also double as fairly decent infantry.

In Comparison the Palatine Guards .. well lack that Palatine Guards element to them. They're just glorified archers at this point. Might as well just give the title to the Sergeant Crossbowmen at this point.

To use Palatine Guard strategically, they need to be in something better than other archers. But they are not. Heck, better is to recruit Bucellari, and dismount them before fight. Sure, Palatine Guard is best armored from all archers, but armor is not really important for ranged units.
But you dont want to give them second stack of arrows (due fact they have best bow) so I have another suggestion.
Give them shield.
With shield they really will gain ability to be used "strategically" because player would decide if he want to deploy them early with bows, and strike, or wait utill enemy shoot all arrows. It would allow player to many advanced tactics, like dividing Guards into two groups, one guarding another. It would also make them much stronger than other archers in meele, giving them unique advantage over other archers, and also reinforce their theme as "Highly durable shoters"

Palatine Guards used to be the most heavily armoured archers around that weren't noble, which fit the Empire dealio. They aren't really anymore though, so now they don't really compete with everyone else. Especially Master Archers who are just better than them.

Forwarded the feedback, thank you. We'll do some more testing with them.

 

[Penn]

I would agree that mercenaries and minor factions should be more dangerous. Why pay a bunch of money to a company of mercenaries if they dont perform? ?

 

[Signalize]

I would agree that mercenaries and minor factions should be more dangerous. Why pay a bunch of money to a company of mercenaries if they dont perform? ?

Mercenaries and troop balance issues are two things we are actively looking into. I can't promise changes right away but we are actively doing tests and trying different combinations to come up with changes the community would like.

 

[nereid]

Mercenaries and troop balance issues are two things we are actively looking into. I can't promise changes right away but we are actively doing tests and trying different combinations to come up with changes the community would like.

Does this only pertain to mercenary troop balance or troop balance in general between the factions?

 

[Signalize]

Does this only pertain to mercenary troop balance or troop balance in general between the factions?

Both. We evaluate how much damage different troops do, how distinctive they are visually, and how they interact with each other.

 

[nereid]

Both. We evaluate how much damage different troops do, how distinctive they are visually, and how they interact with each other.

Great to hear that. I'm looking forward to the results

 

[Ask]

Nothing I can share at the moment but will follow up once I can.

Thanks!

Mercenaries and troop balance issues are two things we are actively looking into. I can't promise changes right away but we are actively doing tests and trying different combinations to come up with changes the community would like.

Glad to hear that! I've always been fond of the look of Hired Blades/Crossbows/Mercenary Cavalry since they retain a very similar one to those from Warband and they really stand out as being non-cultural, but their performance is lackluster. I know this is a very small, not extremely rigorous test, but as seen on this thread, in particular this post, Hired Blades are in need of some serious balance changes.

Still though, very happy to see they're being worked on.

 

[KingEroc1st]

I don't understand why both Aserai and Khuzait have only 4 types of Tier 5 troops while the other factions all have 5

also why does Battania, the supposed best archers faction not have normal archers or horse archers...(this means their ranged unit numbers are always below their opponents...) yet have 2 types of cavalry, both being the weakest and second weakest of all? (feeding horse meat burgers to their enemies en mass for a mountains/forest dwelling people seems illogical...where are they getting all the horses?)

I feel like Aserai could use a regular cavalry line. and another tier 4 lance weapon with around 200 range

Khuzait could use a 2h shock unit like a glaive man or something.

Battania scout/horsemen could become a horse archer line so they have some none noble ranged troops. or have this line erased and the battanian raider line split to have a foot archer line

 

[LuciusDomitiusAurelianus]

@Dejan going to pile on here regarding Palatine Guard feedback, without getting to much into the psuedoscience and history - with the bow nerf and missing an extra quiver - there is not much of a reason to use them. Adding another stack OR giving them a shield would be the preferred outcome.

I've said it before too, and not the only one, but the Crossbows feel totally out of place in the empire and should instead be replaced with either more horse archer variations or light cav. The only cav troop in all of the non-noble tree is the T5 HA, which is out of place IMHO.

@Signalize good to hear attention is being paid to minor factions & mercenaries too. Does that extend to bandits? Some more variety would be welcomed there too, especially for those of us who actively recruit from them and want to remain competitive on higher difficulty settings

 

[five bucks]

I've said it before too, and not the only one, but the Crossbows feel totally out of place in the empire and should instead be replaced with either more horse archer variations or light cav.

If Empire lost their crossbows, then the only faction in the game to field any crossbows would be Vlandia.

Also why does Battania, the supposed best archers faction

When did TW say they were meant to be the best archer faction?

Their culture description when you start the game says that they specialise in shock infantry charges with great swords and great axes. It also says they send showers of arrows out of the woods, which refers to the Fians which they already have.

So if anything, the problem with Battania isn't that they don't have regular archers. It's that they don't have a unit with a great axe.

Aserai or Khuzait are better candidates for being the archery specialty faction. They are based on cultures who highly idolized skill at archery.

Why do they not have normal archers or horse archers...(this means their ranged unit numbers are always below their opponents...)

Because Celts, which are Battania's inspiration, barely used bows in war at all, with the exception of the South Welsh who were really good at it (and are represented by the Fians). All other Celts used javelins in war.

Also because it makes Battania more unique from other factions not to have a horse archer and regular archer, which literally EVERY faction (other than Vlandia) has. Why bother having different troop trees at all if they're all going to have the same troop types with just minor equipment differences? Better to have each faction have something they do well and something they can't do- strengths and weaknesses.

yet have 2 types of cavalry, both being the weakest and second weakest of all? (feeding horse meat burgers to their enemies en mass for a mountains/forest dwelling people seems illogical...where are they getting all the horses?)

I do agree that Battania should have less horse units (as Celts did not use heavy cavalry much in history and used their cavalry for skirmishing; also because removing their melee cavalry would make them more unique from other factions).

I would support getting rid of their regular melee cavalry line entirely, replacing it with a great axe unit, and only keeping the javelin cavalry.

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

Since this thread seems to get the most replies...

@Dejan Are throwing spears supposed to be unthrowable now? Imperial Legionaries no longer throw their pilas even with fire at will. Is this deliberate, or an oversight you will look to fix?

 

[nereid]

Since this thread seems to get the most replies...

@Dejan Are throwing spears supposed to be unthrowable now? Imperial Legionaries no longer throw their pilas even with fire at will. Is this deliberate, or an oversight you will look to fix?

That is a bug since at least 1.7.0 or so. And I thought that it was fixed, but it seems it is not.

Currently this hampers the legionaries a lot, as they will only use their secondary weapon and it gimps them against cavalry.

 

[MostBlunted]

That is a bug since at least 1.7.0 or so. And I thought that it was fixed, but it seems it is not.

As far as I know TW never said it was a bug and that it will be fixed? Do you have any source?

I understood that it was their intended design, of course it doesn´t make sense in any way but hey..it´s TW.

 

[nereid]

As far as I know TW never said it was a bug and that it will be fixed? Do you have any source?

I understood that it was their intended design, of course it doesn´t make sense in any way but hey..it´s TW.

AFAIK the weapon has still the throwable tag and you can throw them yourself.

 

[MostBlunted]

AFAIK the weapon has still the throwable tag and you can throw them yourself.

I know, but I want my 50+ Legionaries to throw them at the charging enemy...like they did before TW thought it was good idea for whatever reason to change it...