Beta e1.7.2 Troop & Equipment Changes

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It's called identity, there is nothing wrong if ex:
The lord from Sturgia goes to Khuzait side and "buys" the armor, the problem is having already from the start

Not to mention this is not even a lord with other faction armor style ... it's an actual unit. For you this makes sense? so why even have factions at that point... it would be way simpler to just have 1 uniform across the board... it's ridiculous, there is no logic behind that.

One thing is the MC doing that, it's based on your choice, the other thing is having different factions with each others gear.
I know this game isn't a historical correct, but some foundations need to be there. The same applies to all the people here talking about pila/pilum and the way it "should" work/visual. Just imagine turning Pilum into a bow... makes sense? easy as that.

There needs some consistency in how it's done. The three Imperial's make sense, but having Sturgia and Khuzait mix up or any other for that matter is ridiculous. I'm also in favor of the Lords trying to maintain that identity if possible and only break that rule if they change sides.
But sometimes... leather gloves are just leather gloves. Sometimes mail mittens are just mail mittens. You are asking for a bit much to give each and every faction their very own things, when you can just hand them around.

And I think its hardly fair for you to take my points to an extreme I never argued for lol.

Seriously, there are better things to worry about than just being grumpy that the Aserai happen to use a few Khuzait lamellar pieces too and etc.
 

bfmsc

Recruit
I think you should remake the palatine guard, like give them 32 ammo instead of 24, and give them a shield, which make them a unique archer and more fix to their name
 

five bucks

Knight
I think you should remake the palatine guard, like give them 32 ammo instead of 24, and give them a shield, which make them a unique archer and more fix to their name
I would change the whole Empire troop tree to have a bigger focus on pikemen, remove the Palatine Guard so that they don't have 2 ranged units, and give their name to the crossbowman so that the Empire and Vlandia don't both have a troop called Sergeant Crossbowman.
 

Radimov

Regular
But sometimes... leather gloves are just leather gloves. Sometimes mail mittens are just mail mittens. You are asking for a bit much to give each and every faction their very own things, when you can just hand them around.

And I think its hardly fair for you to take my points to an extreme I never argued for lol.

Seriously, there are better things to worry about than just being grumpy that the Aserai happen to use a few Khuzait lamellar pieces too and etc.
You are all the place again... it's actually amazing how you can do it :lol:.

1- Where do i say the leather gloves are the problem? the only thing i mentioned some close to it was this "- Khuzait Heavy Lancer using that poor excuse of gloves... a T5 unit with that..." because indeed a T5 shouldn't use a poor excuse like that when you have ALREADY in the game the Bronze Bracers.
2- IF you are comparing that the situation of the leather gloves is just leather gloves and the mail mittens is the same logic you already buried/failed yourself to see the point.
3- "You are asking for a bit much to give each and every faction their very own things, when you can just hand them around." THEY ARE ALREADY THERE what do you even mean ? seriously? loool
4- "And I think its hardly fair for you to take my points to an extreme I never argued for lol." Extreme? they were in the same line of thought that you have... it's kinda funny when confronted with the reality of your point you call it extreme, pretty funny not gonna lie.
5- "Seriously, there are better things to worry about than just being grumpy that the Aserai happen to use a few Khuzait lamellar pieces too and etc." I already answered in point 3 so... you are just sticking with your twisted view of the game and trying to find excuses where they don't exist simple as that.

The game already have the minimum assets to be consistent. Balancing values and what not is a different problem.

Btw this debate should end here because 1, there is no rabbit for you to pull out of the hat to defend this, 2 you missed the point since your first comment and you try to defend your point with conflicting arguments, there is no benefit for anyone for this to stretch more.
My point is already made and it's constructive criticism, just like many stuff in games or real life there is nothing that everybody will agree upon.

HalfMetalJacket you can reply or do whatever you want, but im not continue this for the reasons i already said.
 
You are all the place again... it's actually amazing how you can do it :lol:.

1- Where do i say the leather gloves are the problem? the only thing i mentioned some close to it was this "- Khuzait Heavy Lancer using that poor excuse of gloves... a T5 unit with that..." because indeed a T5 shouldn't use a poor excuse like that when you have ALREADY in the game the Bronze Bracers.
2- IF you are comparing that the situation of the leather gloves is just leather gloves and the mail mittens is the same logic you already buried/failed yourself to see the point.
3- "You are asking for a bit much to give each and every faction their very own things, when you can just hand them around." THEY ARE ALREADY THERE what do you even mean ? seriously? loool
4- "And I think its hardly fair for you to take my points to an extreme I never argued for lol." Extreme? they were in the same line of thought that you have... it's kinda funny when confronted with the reality of your point you call it extreme, pretty funny not gonna lie.
5- "Seriously, there are better things to worry about than just being grumpy that the Aserai happen to use a few Khuzait lamellar pieces too and etc." I already answered in point 3 so... you are just sticking with your twisted view of the game and trying to find excuses where they don't exist simple as that.

The game already have the minimum assets to be consistent. Balancing values and what not is a different problem.

Btw this debate should end here because 1, there is no rabbit for you to pull out of the hat to defend this, 2 you missed the point since your first comment and you try to defend your point with conflicting arguments, there is no benefit for anyone for this to stretch more.
My point is already made and it's constructive criticism, just like many stuff in games or real life there is nothing that everybody will agree upon.

HalfMetalJacket you can reply or do whatever you want, but im not continue this for the reasons i already said.
Sure, I mixed your thoughts up with random other people's thoughts, but to be fair I was not really replying to you. There were people before that expressed similar ideas. Arguing with you is pointless seeing as you aren't entirely wrong.

Still, I see absolutely zero issue with using assets on other places here and there, within reason.
 

Brano

Regular
troop trees and their equipment are easily editable with simple notepad app. I always do it with major updates.Takes few minutes if you know what you're doing.I have add Bannerkings mod to my new battanian playthrough and have fun editing troops with beautiful armors from armor mod that is necessary to run with it. Yesterday I played with javelin holster positions on my skirmisher line with target to eliminate them (I hate the look of javelin holsters in general) and place javelins into left hand. It was fun and result looks good.
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Can I just mention that Minor faction unit trees still desperately need a tier 5 unit. Spending time to collect and train these unique units should be a fun side-mission; but it feels meaningless when in the long-term any village recruit will attain a higher final level.
 

five bucks

Knight
Can I just mention that Minor faction unit trees still desperately need a tier 5 unit. Spending time to collect and train these unique units should be a fun side-mission; but it feels meaningless when in the long-term any village recruit will attain a higher final level.
Agreed, especially the minor factions who are described as elite warriors.

In the past, I've suggested how to give the minor "warrior" factions T5 units.

GHILMAN
Proposed change: Add a T5 unit called the Ghulam Kingmaker, with better equipment/skills than the Ghilman.

LAST LEGION
Proposed change: Move the Triarii to Tier 5 and improve its equipment/skills, move the Principes to Tier 4 and improve its equipment/skills, move the Hastati to Tier 3 and improve its equipment/skills. Add a new unit, the Velites, at Tier 2.

SKOLDERBRODA
Proposed change: Move the Skolder Veteran Broda to Tier 5 and improve its equipment/skills, move the Skolder Warrior Broda to Tier 4 and improve its equipment/skills, and add a new unit at Tier 3, the Skolder Shield Broda.
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Agreed, especially the minor factions who are described as elite warriors.

In the past, I've suggested how to give the minor "warrior" factions T5 units.

GHILMAN
Proposed change: Add a T5 unit called the Ghulam Kingmaker, with better equipment/skills than the Ghilman.

LAST LEGION
Proposed change: Move the Triarii to Tier 5 and improve its equipment/skills, move the Principes to Tier 4 and improve its equipment/skills, move the Hastati to Tier 3 and improve its equipment/skills. Add a new unit, the Velites, at Tier 2.

SKOLDERBRODA
Proposed change: Move the Skolder Veteran Broda to Tier 5 and improve its equipment/skills, move the Skolder Warrior Broda to Tier 4 and improve its equipment/skills, and add a new unit at Tier 3, the Skolder Shield Broda.
Also... how the hell does the Triarii not use the new Imperial plumed helmets?

nrZoZU5.png
bwe3n910h2a71.jpg


Look at these beautiful things - you took the time to make them TW; use them! I know it's a little fantastical given the period; but you can't deny it would be an awesome aesthetic on a shield line.
 

five bucks

Knight
Also... how the hell does the Triarii not use the new Imperial plumed helmets?

nrZoZU5.png
bwe3n910h2a71.jpg


Look at these beautiful things - you took the time to make them TW; use them! I know it's a little fantastical given the period; but you can't deny it would be an awesome aesthetic on a shield line.
They seem to be a little slow in adding new equipment to nobles and troops, though it has happened here and there (eg: Decorated Leather Harness with Padding was given to Menavliaton). Might be that they're waiting for all new gear to be added (e.g. Vlandia needs stuff) before they do a pass on every unit?

Some of the worst offenders for me are Empire lords and ladies. Many of them wear helmets that look rusty, ugly, tarnished, cheap, etc.

And none of the rulers seem to wear the fantastic royal crowns in their civilian outfits, while Garios, Lucon, Raganvad and Caladog don't even wear battle crowns in their combat outfits.
 
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Lundgren 333

Recruit
Why is the helmet for the imperial trained infantryman changed to a coif? It's Helmet rating is one of the worst among all the factions for its tier after this patch. Aserai Infantry has roughly 40 head armor while imperial trained infantryman has 16. Couldn't the imperials get a kettle helm instead if the iron nasal helm gives too much armor?
 
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Ba18070

Recruit
Maybe i'm confused but....did Aserai troops really need nerfs? Most of the changes I see are big drops in armor class.
I guess its a roundabout statement since armor in melee is basically worthless other than for aesthetic purposes, and for ranged it only matters if you're picking on much weaker archers, but still.

Suggested improvement:
Simple armor formula: For each part of the body 1 point of armor is 1% damage reduction. Since the chest head and legs are best protected and can take the most damage, it makes sense they get the biggest reductions. And then certain levels of upgrades offer some armor penetration, so like a armor class of 50 in chest being hit by an armor piercing arrow with a .25 armor modifier means the reduction is taken down to 37.5%. Blunt weapons can keep a .4 to .6 armor modifier based on weight and velocity of the hit, so a blunt hit to the chest of that same 50 armor guy only gets a 30% to 20% reduction.
Some areas remain instant kills in melee, namely the throat and back of the head since the frailty of the former and concussive impact of the latter mean they are valuable target areas, and would keep some "gamey" elements in it for people to aim for as they truly master the game, i.e. chamber block into sidestep head slam or straight shot to the throat.
 
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