Hence why I said limited ammo and a targe to make them different and keep them in line Battania's theme (ambush).
How would you limit ammo more than one quiver? That's how many most archers have.
Sure, you could give them a shield, but that's only a very minor difference compared to the large similarity of Battania now having mainline ranged infantry like every other faction in the game.
I want to see a Bannerlord where every faction feels very distinct. Where you have one faction with way more shock infantry than anyone else but no melee cavalry (Battania), way more pike infantry than anyone else but no shock infantry (Empire if menavlions were actually pikes like in real life and not weird glaives), way more shield infantry than anyone else but weak ranged infantry (Sturgia does this and could do it better), way more melee cavalry but no ranged cavalry (Vlandia does this well), way more ranged cavalry but weak shield infantry (Khuzaits could do this well if they didn't have shields/their wicker shields weren't so good), and way more javelin/bow ranged infantry but no pike infantry (Aserai).
So that every time you go to a new region, you can feel the cultural difference in the armies you're fighting. Instead of almost
everyone having shield infantry, shock infantry, archers, melee cavalry and ranged cavalry in roughly the same numbers with the only minor difference being equipment used.
Javelins aren't used very well by the AI
And this should certainly be fixed. Especially the pila not being thrown!!
Celt is a very broad term and won't really narrow down a precise fighting style. The Gauls were renowned for their cavalry for example. The Picts used bows in warfare (though weaker than South Wales) and those were still commoner archers in South Wales, not nobles.
And that's the thing, Bannerlord cultures are pastiches of an entire ethnicity's fighting styles and cultural traits all mushed into one.
If you were to mix all Celtic fighting styles into one, you would find a lot more javelins than bows, and a lot more infantry than cavalry. So by removing the melee cav and adding a second shock infantry, you represent all the different aspects of the Celts in their troop tree.
* Elite archers represent the South Welsh and Dal Raita, known for their bows. Being uncommon elite troops represents that most other Celts as a whole did
not use bows often or at all, especially compared to all other cultures Bannerlord represents.
* Pikemen represent the North Welsh, known for their use of pike tactics before most of the rest of Britain.
* Javelin cavalry represent the Ancient Gaul cavalry, and the Irish and Scottish light hobelars.
* Shield infantry represent a method of fighting common enough for the Irish, Picts/Scots, Welsh and Gauls.
* The first shock infantry, Falxmen, represent the Ancient Celts.
* The second shock infantry, Gallowglasses, represent the Irish and Scots.
And most infantry and cavalry use javelins in some way, which represents the enormous popularity of the javelin in Ireland as well as Wales, Scotland and ancient Celtic warfare.
The Battanians are more based on the Picts, Welsh and Scots than the Irish, IMO (I can only think of two names and then the Gallowglass 2H thing that they share with the Scottish).
The Fians (Fianna) are a very strong Irish reference. The devblogs outright say the Irish are part of the source material
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/261550/view/2882822940995502912
I agree that they need better shock infantry, given their tactics are frequently described as "ambush with arrows, rush screaming in with falxes". I'm concerned that adding another shock line would be redundant though, and that maybe axes should just be mixed into the rosters of the current line.
Having two lines of the same type is not redundant, but the best way to show a faction specialises in a certain type of warfare, because with two lines it means they end up with a lot more of that type of troop in their armies than other factions.
Look at Vlandia's two melee cavalry lines, Khuzaits' two ranged cavalry lines, and Sturgia's two shield infantry lines. All of these give the factions their strong identities, if Khuzaits only had one horse archer line and had infantry or something instead, they wouldn't feel like Khuzaits at all.
You can differentiate the Gallowglass and the Veteran Falxman by having the Falxman be lighter armoured, faster, with their much longer rhomphaia, carrying a backup shield and javelins, while the Gallowglass is much heavier armoured, slower, has a shorter but faster axe and uses throwing axes.
But if you still think that having two lines of the same troop type is redundant, then let me point out that's what having two lines of archers would be for Battania, too.
The T4 Falxmen is the only one that performs well in that line, and weirdly it branches off from the skirmishers rather than the mainline infantry. T3 Raider doesn't even have a 2 handed weapon and T5 vet falx has far too long a stick with no back up
I agree the whole Battanian troop tree needs a shakeup to be more logical. And long polearm users need better AI.
I hate the falxes anyway, feels out of place on pseudo-britons.
I'm not a huge fan either. But from the Ancient Celt influences they're trying to add it kind of works.
The troop trees are awful though, and I think the reason for that is they don't really lean into skill differences and such for that nice assymmetric balancing. I've redesigned Battania's troop tree a few times because I can never play the vanilla one through a playthrough, and it's really fun to make them quite fast but lightly-armoured (especially the wildling, no idea why they have such heavy armour, I give em the leather kilt now). Lets you attack and withdraw to whittle them down or lead into an archer ambush but the AI can't manage that (Taleworlds, different commander tactics for each faction pleaaaaase).
If Battania was to have two shocklines, I would actually prefer it to replace the Fian as a sort of hybrid shield and 2 hander line (I've just been playing around with some I made in custom battles, quite fun actually, and I really like the idea of having them as bodyguards). Then we could have some common archers. Fians are boring rn as you just place them on a hill to win, and they don't even fit the whole ambush thing (except for their high rate of fire) because with all their armour they're just as slow as regular archers, have plenty of ammo and can outrange everyone. I'd rather have fleet-footed common archers I can obtain more easily but are limited by ammo. Lack of common archers doesn't really make Battania play any different besides recruiting, as once you have them then it's the same tactic as other bowmen just better.
All of this sounds like a good alternative solution, but I don't think Taleworlds would ditch Fians outright now that they're probably the best known troop in the game.
I agree it is boring that you just sit Fians on a hill to win, which is why we should all campaign for arrow damage against armour to be fixed to something more sensible, e.g. 7-8 arrows to kill rather than 4-5 arrows to kill.
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