Beta e1.7.2 Troop & Equipment Changes

Users who are viewing this thread

It's called identity, there is nothing wrong if ex:
The lord from Sturgia goes to Khuzait side and "buys" the armor, the problem is having already from the start

Not to mention this is not even a lord with other faction armor style ... it's an actual unit. For you this makes sense? so why even have factions at that point... it would be way simpler to just have 1 uniform across the board... it's ridiculous, there is no logic behind that.

One thing is the MC doing that, it's based on your choice, the other thing is having different factions with each others gear.
I know this game isn't a historical correct, but some foundations need to be there. The same applies to all the people here talking about pila/pilum and the way it "should" work/visual. Just imagine turning Pilum into a bow... makes sense? easy as that.

There needs some consistency in how it's done. The three Imperial's make sense, but having Sturgia and Khuzait mix up or any other for that matter is ridiculous. I'm also in favor of the Lords trying to maintain that identity if possible and only break that rule if they change sides.
But sometimes... leather gloves are just leather gloves. Sometimes mail mittens are just mail mittens. You are asking for a bit much to give each and every faction their very own things, when you can just hand them around.

And I think its hardly fair for you to take my points to an extreme I never argued for lol.

Seriously, there are better things to worry about than just being grumpy that the Aserai happen to use a few Khuzait lamellar pieces too and etc.
 

bfmsc

Recruit
I think you should remake the palatine guard, like give them 32 ammo instead of 24, and give them a shield, which make them a unique archer and more fix to their name
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
I think you should remake the palatine guard, like give them 32 ammo instead of 24, and give them a shield, which make them a unique archer and more fix to their name
I would change the whole Empire troop tree to have a bigger focus on pikemen, remove the Palatine Guard so that they don't have 2 ranged units, and give their name to the crossbowman so that the Empire and Vlandia don't both have a troop called Sergeant Crossbowman.
 

Radimov

Regular
But sometimes... leather gloves are just leather gloves. Sometimes mail mittens are just mail mittens. You are asking for a bit much to give each and every faction their very own things, when you can just hand them around.

And I think its hardly fair for you to take my points to an extreme I never argued for lol.

Seriously, there are better things to worry about than just being grumpy that the Aserai happen to use a few Khuzait lamellar pieces too and etc.
You are all the place again... it's actually amazing how you can do it :lol:.

1- Where do i say the leather gloves are the problem? the only thing i mentioned some close to it was this "- Khuzait Heavy Lancer using that poor excuse of gloves... a T5 unit with that..." because indeed a T5 shouldn't use a poor excuse like that when you have ALREADY in the game the Bronze Bracers.
2- IF you are comparing that the situation of the leather gloves is just leather gloves and the mail mittens is the same logic you already buried/failed yourself to see the point.
3- "You are asking for a bit much to give each and every faction their very own things, when you can just hand them around." THEY ARE ALREADY THERE what do you even mean ? seriously? loool
4- "And I think its hardly fair for you to take my points to an extreme I never argued for lol." Extreme? they were in the same line of thought that you have... it's kinda funny when confronted with the reality of your point you call it extreme, pretty funny not gonna lie.
5- "Seriously, there are better things to worry about than just being grumpy that the Aserai happen to use a few Khuzait lamellar pieces too and etc." I already answered in point 3 so... you are just sticking with your twisted view of the game and trying to find excuses where they don't exist simple as that.

The game already have the minimum assets to be consistent. Balancing values and what not is a different problem.

Btw this debate should end here because 1, there is no rabbit for you to pull out of the hat to defend this, 2 you missed the point since your first comment and you try to defend your point with conflicting arguments, there is no benefit for anyone for this to stretch more.
My point is already made and it's constructive criticism, just like many stuff in games or real life there is nothing that everybody will agree upon.

HalfMetalJacket you can reply or do whatever you want, but im not continue this for the reasons i already said.
 
You are all the place again... it's actually amazing how you can do it :lol:.

1- Where do i say the leather gloves are the problem? the only thing i mentioned some close to it was this "- Khuzait Heavy Lancer using that poor excuse of gloves... a T5 unit with that..." because indeed a T5 shouldn't use a poor excuse like that when you have ALREADY in the game the Bronze Bracers.
2- IF you are comparing that the situation of the leather gloves is just leather gloves and the mail mittens is the same logic you already buried/failed yourself to see the point.
3- "You are asking for a bit much to give each and every faction their very own things, when you can just hand them around." THEY ARE ALREADY THERE what do you even mean ? seriously? loool
4- "And I think its hardly fair for you to take my points to an extreme I never argued for lol." Extreme? they were in the same line of thought that you have... it's kinda funny when confronted with the reality of your point you call it extreme, pretty funny not gonna lie.
5- "Seriously, there are better things to worry about than just being grumpy that the Aserai happen to use a few Khuzait lamellar pieces too and etc." I already answered in point 3 so... you are just sticking with your twisted view of the game and trying to find excuses where they don't exist simple as that.

The game already have the minimum assets to be consistent. Balancing values and what not is a different problem.

Btw this debate should end here because 1, there is no rabbit for you to pull out of the hat to defend this, 2 you missed the point since your first comment and you try to defend your point with conflicting arguments, there is no benefit for anyone for this to stretch more.
My point is already made and it's constructive criticism, just like many stuff in games or real life there is nothing that everybody will agree upon.

HalfMetalJacket you can reply or do whatever you want, but im not continue this for the reasons i already said.
Sure, I mixed your thoughts up with random other people's thoughts, but to be fair I was not really replying to you. There were people before that expressed similar ideas. Arguing with you is pointless seeing as you aren't entirely wrong.

Still, I see absolutely zero issue with using assets on other places here and there, within reason.
 

Brano

Sergeant at Arms
troop trees and their equipment are easily editable with simple notepad app. I always do it with major updates.Takes few minutes if you know what you're doing.I have add Bannerkings mod to my new battanian playthrough and have fun editing troops with beautiful armors from armor mod that is necessary to run with it. Yesterday I played with javelin holster positions on my skirmisher line with target to eliminate them (I hate the look of javelin holsters in general) and place javelins into left hand. It was fun and result looks good.
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Can I just mention that Minor faction unit trees still desperately need a tier 5 unit. Spending time to collect and train these unique units should be a fun side-mission; but it feels meaningless when in the long-term any village recruit will attain a higher final level.
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
Can I just mention that Minor faction unit trees still desperately need a tier 5 unit. Spending time to collect and train these unique units should be a fun side-mission; but it feels meaningless when in the long-term any village recruit will attain a higher final level.
Agreed, especially the minor factions who are described as elite warriors.

In the past, I've suggested how to give the minor "warrior" factions T5 units.

GHILMAN
Proposed change: Add a T5 unit called the Ghulam Kingmaker, with better equipment/skills than the Ghilman.

LAST LEGION
Proposed change: Move the Triarii to Tier 5 and improve its equipment/skills, move the Principes to Tier 4 and improve its equipment/skills, move the Hastati to Tier 3 and improve its equipment/skills. Add a new unit, the Velites, at Tier 2.

SKOLDERBRODA
Proposed change: Move the Skolder Veteran Broda to Tier 5 and improve its equipment/skills, move the Skolder Warrior Broda to Tier 4 and improve its equipment/skills, and add a new unit at Tier 3, the Skolder Shield Broda.
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Agreed, especially the minor factions who are described as elite warriors.

In the past, I've suggested how to give the minor "warrior" factions T5 units.

GHILMAN
Proposed change: Add a T5 unit called the Ghulam Kingmaker, with better equipment/skills than the Ghilman.

LAST LEGION
Proposed change: Move the Triarii to Tier 5 and improve its equipment/skills, move the Principes to Tier 4 and improve its equipment/skills, move the Hastati to Tier 3 and improve its equipment/skills. Add a new unit, the Velites, at Tier 2.

SKOLDERBRODA
Proposed change: Move the Skolder Veteran Broda to Tier 5 and improve its equipment/skills, move the Skolder Warrior Broda to Tier 4 and improve its equipment/skills, and add a new unit at Tier 3, the Skolder Shield Broda.
Also... how the hell does the Triarii not use the new Imperial plumed helmets?

nrZoZU5.png
bwe3n910h2a71.jpg


Look at these beautiful things - you took the time to make them TW; use them! I know it's a little fantastical given the period; but you can't deny it would be an awesome aesthetic on a shield line.
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
Also... how the hell does the Triarii not use the new Imperial plumed helmets?

nrZoZU5.png
bwe3n910h2a71.jpg


Look at these beautiful things - you took the time to make them TW; use them! I know it's a little fantastical given the period; but you can't deny it would be an awesome aesthetic on a shield line.
They seem to be a little slow in adding new equipment to nobles and troops, though it has happened here and there (eg: Decorated Leather Harness with Padding was given to Menavliaton). Might be that they're waiting for all new gear to be added (e.g. Vlandia needs stuff) before they do a pass on every unit?

Some of the worst offenders for me are Empire lords and ladies. Many of them wear helmets that look rusty, ugly, tarnished, cheap, etc.

And none of the rulers seem to wear the fantastic royal crowns in their civilian outfits, while Garios, Lucon, Raganvad and Caladog don't even wear battle crowns in their combat outfits.
 
Last edited:

Lundgren 333

Recruit
Why is the helmet for the imperial trained infantryman changed to a coif? It's Helmet rating is one of the worst among all the factions for its tier after this patch. Aserai Infantry has roughly 40 head armor while imperial trained infantryman has 16. Couldn't the imperials get a kettle helm instead if the iron nasal helm gives too much armor?
 
Last edited:

Ba18070

Recruit
Maybe i'm confused but....did Aserai troops really need nerfs? Most of the changes I see are big drops in armor class.
I guess its a roundabout statement since armor in melee is basically worthless other than for aesthetic purposes, and for ranged it only matters if you're picking on much weaker archers, but still.

Suggested improvement:
Simple armor formula: For each part of the body 1 point of armor is 1% damage reduction. Since the chest head and legs are best protected and can take the most damage, it makes sense they get the biggest reductions. And then certain levels of upgrades offer some armor penetration, so like a armor class of 50 in chest being hit by an armor piercing arrow with a .25 armor modifier means the reduction is taken down to 37.5%. Blunt weapons can keep a .4 to .6 armor modifier based on weight and velocity of the hit, so a blunt hit to the chest of that same 50 armor guy only gets a 30% to 20% reduction.
Some areas remain instant kills in melee, namely the throat and back of the head since the frailty of the former and concussive impact of the latter mean they are valuable target areas, and would keep some "gamey" elements in it for people to aim for as they truly master the game, i.e. chamber block into sidestep head slam or straight shot to the throat.
 
It's called identity, there is nothing wrong if ex:
The lord from Sturgia goes to Khuzait side and "buys" the armor, the problem is having already from the start

Not to mention this is not even a lord with other faction armor style ... it's an actual unit. For you this makes sense? so why even have factions at that point... it would be way simpler to just have 1 uniform across the board... it's ridiculous, there is no logic behind that.

One thing is the MC doing that, it's based on your choice, the other thing is having different factions with each others gear.
I know this game isn't a historical correct, but some foundations need to be there. The same applies to all the people here talking about pila/pilum and the way it "should" work/visual. Just imagine turning Pilum into a bow... makes sense? easy as that.

There needs some consistency in how it's done. The three Imperial's make sense, but having Sturgia and Khuzait mix up or any other for that matter is ridiculous. I'm also in favor of the Lords trying to maintain that identity if possible and only break that rule if they change sides.
Sturgians are based off of the Rus, not Vikings...
 
I mean, I myself want commoner longbows in Battania... but I also love Fian Champions as a super soldier concept. I like historically inspired, but I don't give a damn about doing straight up copycats either. And seeing as I don't care to see much cavalry in Battania, I found it quite easy to just flip some slots around.
Yeah, the workaround of Battania's lack of common archer was making Fian Champions basically pour out of the Highlands in droves, which is boooooring and unbalanced.

I'd prefer to see Battania's lancer cavalry line be swapped out for the falxmen line in position (makes far more sense than coming from skirmishers IMO) and then the empty gap filled by skirmisher-flavoured archers. Targe and 1H, light armour (and maybe high athletics) with an ok longbow and single quiver - makes for a fast and adaptable unit suited for quick ambushes but not prolonged firefights. Scatter a few Fians amongst them for extra oomph, and voila: a ranged formation that can move into position quick, hit hard, and then charge in screaming to finish them off in true Battanian fashion. They'd be less fire-and-forget, unlike the current stacks of Fians, and also fill a niche by being slightly better in the melee than counterpart archers due to their shields.
 
Yeah, the workaround of Battania's lack of common archer was making Fian Champions basically pour out of the Highlands in droves, which is boooooring and unbalanced.

I'd prefer to see Battania's lancer cavalry line be swapped out for the falxmen line in position (makes far more sense than coming from skirmishers IMO) and then the empty gap filled by skirmisher-flavoured archers. Targe and 1H, light armour (and maybe high athletics) with an ok longbow and single quiver - makes for a fast and adaptable unit suited for quick ambushes but not prolonged firefights. Scatter a few Fians amongst them for extra oomph, and voila: a ranged formation that can move into position quick, hit hard, and then charge in screaming to finish them off in true Battanian fashion. They'd be less fire-and-forget, unlike the current stacks of Fians, and also fill a niche by being slightly better in the melee than counterpart archers due to their shields.
Fians are extremely effective in melee though. Good armour, skills and great two handed weapons makes them quite capable of winning battles against any other infantry force.

I personally don't mind too much, but if they're spammable that's a problem.
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
Yeah, the workaround of Battania's lack of common archer was making Fian Champions basically pour out of the Highlands in droves, which is boooooring and unbalanced.

I'd prefer to see Battania's lancer cavalry line be swapped out for the falxmen line in position (makes far more sense than coming from skirmishers IMO) and then the empty gap filled by skirmisher-flavoured archers. Targe and 1H, light armour (and maybe high athletics) with an ok longbow and single quiver - makes for a fast and adaptable unit suited for quick ambushes but not prolonged firefights. Scatter a few Fians amongst them for extra oomph, and voila: a ranged formation that can move into position quick, hit hard, and then charge in screaming to finish them off in true Battanian fashion. They'd be less fire-and-forget, unlike the current stacks of Fians, and also fill a niche by being slightly better in the melee than counterpart archers due to their shields.
If you give Battania common-line archers then you make them more similar to every other faction, which is a bad thing in a game where all faction troop trees are already so similar. It really isn't a problem to "lack" common archers because it makes the faction play more differently; javelins give the regular troops a ranged weapon to use in a different way. I don't see their lack of commoner bowmen as a bad thing, because they are based on the Celts who rarely used bows (the weapon was almost never used at all in Ireland) and preferred javelins, with the exception of the South Welsh who were experts with the longbow.

I agree that their lancer cavalry should be removed, but I would replace it with axe-wielding heavily armoured shock infantry, to match their culture description which says "they charge into battle with great swords and great axes". Battania would be the shock infantry specialists of Bannerlord.
 

geala

Squire
It is however hard to accept that a nation has great elite archers in the nobility without having the bow as a widespread weapon. How should the relatively few elite archers have any notable effect in battle if not backed up by a mass of normal archers? Never ever happened in history (maybe during the samurai mounted archer mini-battles of early medieval Japan?) while we have examples for the other way round, the bow as a standard weapon, with some nobility as archers too (ancient Egypt to a certain degree, or early medieval Nubia).

I agree that Battania should be weak in cavalry, so a good proposal to give them more shock infantry.


Maybe i'm confused but....did Aserai troops really need nerfs? Most of the changes I see are big drops in armor class.
I guess its a roundabout statement since armor in melee is basically worthless other than for aesthetic purposes, and for ranged it only matters if you're picking on much weaker archers, but still.

Suggested improvement:
Simple armor formula: For each part of the body 1 point of armor is 1% damage reduction. Since the chest head and legs are best protected and can take the most damage, it makes sense they get the biggest reductions. And then certain levels of upgrades offer some armor penetration, so like a armor class of 50 in chest being hit by an armor piercing arrow with a .25 armor modifier means the reduction is taken down to 37.5%. Blunt weapons can keep a .4 to .6 armor modifier based on weight and velocity of the hit, so a blunt hit to the chest of that same 50 armor guy only gets a 30% to 20% reduction.
Some areas remain instant kills in melee, namely the throat and back of the head since the frailty of the former and concussive impact of the latter mean they are valuable target areas, and would keep some "gamey" elements in it for people to aim for as they truly master the game, i.e. chamber block into sidestep head slam or straight shot to the throat.


Bannerlord has a certain armor formula and it is not very probable that it will be fundamentally changed. The armor theme is a bit exhausting, if the current 1.8.0 changes are not enough for you, you could try this simple mod https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/2758 which solves big parts of the armor problem easily (at least if you still use 1.7.x, there are great mods available for it), without the need to move to an overdone alternative like RBM combat module.
 
Last edited:

five bucks

Knight at Arms
It is however hard to accept that a nation has great elite archers in the nobility without having the bow as a widespread weapon.
The Empire has elite cataphracts in their noble line, yet horses are not widespread in their troop tree (their only other horse unit being the T5 Bucellarii).

Longbowmen require a lifetime of training to learn to use powerful, high-draw bows. In high medieval England, it was made law that all men had to train with the longbow on Sundays.

But Battania is a much more disorganized society than 1200s England was; in-lore the high king barely has any control over their people, so it makes sense that only the elite troops, with the time to spend practicing their craft over and over, are the ones who have mastered the use of the longbow while the rest of Battanian troops are rabble using simple weapons like javelins, spears, axes, falx and shields.
How should the relatively few elite archers have any notable effect in battle if not backed up by a mass of normal archers?
Because they are backed up by infantry instead, who throw waves of javelins and throwing axes, and charge the enemy archers to engage them in melee combat, preventing them from firing.
Never ever happened in history (maybe during the samurai mounted archer mini-battles of early medieval Japan?) while we have examples for the other way round, the bow as a standard weapon, with some nobility as archers too (ancient Egypt to a certain degree, or early medieval Nubia).
Longbows were not a standard weapon in Celtic society, they were uncommon with the exception of South Wales.
I agree that Battania should be weak in cavalry, so a good proposal to give them more shock infantry.
Glad we agree there (y)
Bannerlord has a certain armor formula and it is not very probable that it will be fundamentally changed. The armor theme is a bit exhausting, if the current 1.8.0 changes are not enough for you, you could try this simple mod https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/2758 which solves big parts of the armor problem easily (at least if you still use 1.7.x, there are great mods available for it), without the need to move to an overdone alternative like RBM combat module.
I appreciate the recommendation! However i do think it is probable and necessary that armor be changed in the base game.
 
If you give Battania common-line archers then you make them more similar to every other faction, which is a bad thing in a game where all faction troop trees are already so similar. It really isn't a problem to "lack" common archers because it makes the faction play more differently; javelins give the regular troops a ranged weapon to use in a different way
Hence why I said limited ammo and a targe to make them different and keep them in line Battania's theme (ambush). Javelins aren't used very well by the AI, especially if you don't use realistic battle AI mod like I do (I recommend it if you like skirmishers and don't already use it), which is why the pila was so good when it was throwable compared to true skirmishers.
I don't see their lack of commoner bowmen as a bad thing, because they are based on the Celts who rarely used bows (the weapon was almost never used at all in Ireland) and preferred javelins, with the exception of the South Welsh who were experts with the longbow.
Celt is a very broad term and won't really narrow down a precise fighting style. The Gauls were renowned for their cavalry for example. The Picts used bows in warfare (though weaker than South Wales) and those were still commoner archers in South Wales, not nobles. The Battanians are more based on the Picts, Welsh and Scots than the Irish, IMO (I can only think of two names and then the Gallowglass 2H thing that they share with the Scottish).
I agree that their lancer cavalry should be removed, but I would replace it with axe-wielding heavily armoured shock infantry, to match their culture description which says "they charge into battle with great swords and great axes". Battania would be the shock infantry specialists of Bannerlord.
I agree that they need better shock infantry, given their tactics are frequently described as "ambush with arrows, rush screaming in with falxes". I'm concerned that adding another shock line would be redundant though, and that maybe axes should just be mixed into the rosters of the current line. The T4 Falxmen is the only one that performs well in that line, and weirdly it branches off from the skirmishers rather than the mainline infantry. T3 Raider doesn't even have a 2 handed weapon and T5 vet falx has far too long a stick with no back up, so maybe give them some big swords and axes and we're golden... I hate the falxes anyway, feels out of place on pseudo-britons.

The troop trees are awful though, and I think the reason for that is they don't really lean into skill differences and such for that nice assymmetric balancing. I've redesigned Battania's troop tree a few times because I can never play the vanilla one through a playthrough, and it's really fun to make them quite fast but lightly-armoured (especially the wildling, no idea why they have such heavy armour, I give em the leather kilt now). Lets you attack and withdraw to whittle them down or lead into an archer ambush but the AI can't manage that (Taleworlds, different commander tactics for each faction pleaaaaase).

If Battania was to have two shocklines, I would actually prefer it to replace the Fian as a sort of hybrid shield and 2 hander line (I've just been playing around with some I made in custom battles, quite fun actually, and I really like the idea of having them as bodyguards). Then we could have some common archers. Fians are boring rn as you just place them on a hill to win, and they don't even fit the whole ambush thing (except for their high rate of fire) because with all their armour they're just as slow as regular archers, have plenty of ammo and can outrange everyone. I'd rather have fleet-footed common archers I can obtain more easily but are limited by ammo. Lack of common archers doesn't really make Battania play any different besides recruiting, as once you have them then it's the same tactic as other bowmen just better.
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
Hence why I said limited ammo and a targe to make them different and keep them in line Battania's theme (ambush).
How would you limit ammo more than one quiver? That's how many most archers have.

Sure, you could give them a shield, but that's only a very minor difference compared to the large similarity of Battania now having mainline ranged infantry like every other faction in the game.

I want to see a Bannerlord where every faction feels very distinct. Where you have one faction with way more shock infantry than anyone else but no melee cavalry (Battania), way more pike infantry than anyone else but no shock infantry (Empire if menavlions were actually pikes like in real life and not weird glaives), way more shield infantry than anyone else but weak ranged infantry (Sturgia does this and could do it better), way more melee cavalry but no ranged cavalry (Vlandia does this well), way more ranged cavalry but weak shield infantry (Khuzaits could do this well if they didn't have shields/their wicker shields weren't so good), and way more javelin/bow ranged infantry but no pike infantry (Aserai).

So that every time you go to a new region, you can feel the cultural difference in the armies you're fighting. Instead of almost everyone having shield infantry, shock infantry, archers, melee cavalry and ranged cavalry in roughly the same numbers with the only minor difference being equipment used.
Javelins aren't used very well by the AI
And this should certainly be fixed. Especially the pila not being thrown!!
Celt is a very broad term and won't really narrow down a precise fighting style. The Gauls were renowned for their cavalry for example. The Picts used bows in warfare (though weaker than South Wales) and those were still commoner archers in South Wales, not nobles.
And that's the thing, Bannerlord cultures are pastiches of an entire ethnicity's fighting styles and cultural traits all mushed into one.

If you were to mix all Celtic fighting styles into one, you would find a lot more javelins than bows, and a lot more infantry than cavalry. So by removing the melee cav and adding a second shock infantry, you represent all the different aspects of the Celts in their troop tree.

* Elite archers represent the South Welsh and Dal Raita, known for their bows. Being uncommon elite troops represents that most other Celts as a whole did not use bows often or at all, especially compared to all other cultures Bannerlord represents.
* Pikemen represent the North Welsh, known for their use of pike tactics before most of the rest of Britain.
* Javelin cavalry represent the Ancient Gaul cavalry, and the Irish and Scottish light hobelars.
* Shield infantry represent a method of fighting common enough for the Irish, Picts/Scots, Welsh and Gauls.
* The first shock infantry, Falxmen, represent the Ancient Celts.
* The second shock infantry, Gallowglasses, represent the Irish and Scots.

And most infantry and cavalry use javelins in some way, which represents the enormous popularity of the javelin in Ireland as well as Wales, Scotland and ancient Celtic warfare.
The Battanians are more based on the Picts, Welsh and Scots than the Irish, IMO (I can only think of two names and then the Gallowglass 2H thing that they share with the Scottish).
The Fians (Fianna) are a very strong Irish reference. The devblogs outright say the Irish are part of the source material https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/261550/view/2882822940995502912
I agree that they need better shock infantry, given their tactics are frequently described as "ambush with arrows, rush screaming in with falxes". I'm concerned that adding another shock line would be redundant though, and that maybe axes should just be mixed into the rosters of the current line.
Having two lines of the same type is not redundant, but the best way to show a faction specialises in a certain type of warfare, because with two lines it means they end up with a lot more of that type of troop in their armies than other factions.

Look at Vlandia's two melee cavalry lines, Khuzaits' two ranged cavalry lines, and Sturgia's two shield infantry lines. All of these give the factions their strong identities, if Khuzaits only had one horse archer line and had infantry or something instead, they wouldn't feel like Khuzaits at all.

You can differentiate the Gallowglass and the Veteran Falxman by having the Falxman be lighter armoured, faster, with their much longer rhomphaia, carrying a backup shield and javelins, while the Gallowglass is much heavier armoured, slower, has a shorter but faster axe and uses throwing axes.

But if you still think that having two lines of the same troop type is redundant, then let me point out that's what having two lines of archers would be for Battania, too.
The T4 Falxmen is the only one that performs well in that line, and weirdly it branches off from the skirmishers rather than the mainline infantry. T3 Raider doesn't even have a 2 handed weapon and T5 vet falx has far too long a stick with no back up
I agree the whole Battanian troop tree needs a shakeup to be more logical. And long polearm users need better AI.
I hate the falxes anyway, feels out of place on pseudo-britons.
I'm not a huge fan either. But from the Ancient Celt influences they're trying to add it kind of works.
The troop trees are awful though, and I think the reason for that is they don't really lean into skill differences and such for that nice assymmetric balancing. I've redesigned Battania's troop tree a few times because I can never play the vanilla one through a playthrough, and it's really fun to make them quite fast but lightly-armoured (especially the wildling, no idea why they have such heavy armour, I give em the leather kilt now). Lets you attack and withdraw to whittle them down or lead into an archer ambush but the AI can't manage that (Taleworlds, different commander tactics for each faction pleaaaaase).

If Battania was to have two shocklines, I would actually prefer it to replace the Fian as a sort of hybrid shield and 2 hander line (I've just been playing around with some I made in custom battles, quite fun actually, and I really like the idea of having them as bodyguards). Then we could have some common archers. Fians are boring rn as you just place them on a hill to win, and they don't even fit the whole ambush thing (except for their high rate of fire) because with all their armour they're just as slow as regular archers, have plenty of ammo and can outrange everyone. I'd rather have fleet-footed common archers I can obtain more easily but are limited by ammo. Lack of common archers doesn't really make Battania play any different besides recruiting, as once you have them then it's the same tactic as other bowmen just better.
All of this sounds like a good alternative solution, but I don't think Taleworlds would ditch Fians outright now that they're probably the best known troop in the game.

I agree it is boring that you just sit Fians on a hill to win, which is why we should all campaign for arrow damage against armour to be fixed to something more sensible, e.g. 7-8 arrows to kill rather than 4-5 arrows to kill.
 
Top Bottom