best neutral army without mercs?

[reallybigjohnson]

im sick of all the *****ing and whining that my troops do when i switch sides.  i play mostly merc and work for whichever group is hurting the most at the time.  mercs are hellah expensive so i dont want to use those.  so far i like the sword sisters and my faves are the new and improved slave chiefs.  i havent found any good archer units though that arent assigned to a kingdom.  ive been using sarranids mostly since they are never in trouble and im usually not fighting with them but it would be nice if there was a neutral option.

 

[Charlie Brooker]

Just have more food in your inventory and use whoever the hell you want?

 

[iffy]

Are any of the factions gone?  The Swadians disappeared early in my game and it was an easy choice.

 

[reallybigjohnson]

no i have this thing with not liking changes to my map.  i havent had a game yet where one kingdom fell cause i simply went and helped them out. 

 

[Wheem]

Mercenaries, Manhunters, Sword Sisters, and the various bandits are the only neutral military units around (not counting companions). Now that faction troops cost money to promote, the higher tier mercenary hiring price is actually not too bad - their upkeep is still pretty hefty, though.

 

[gabriot]

Actually I'm pretty sure aside from Sea Raiders all the bandits technically belong to a faction, at least for instance my forest bandits in my party I swear were treated as swadians, and steppe treated as Khergits...  can anyone confirm this?

 

[Wheem]

As far as I know, bandits are not tied to any faction, though the various types can be "promoted" into recruits of different kingdoms. Sea Raiders become Nord Recruits, Forest Bandits become Swadian Recruits, etc...The standard "Bandit" troop type (the ones you'll fight for a few different quests, like rescuing the kidnapped girl) will - like farmers - promote into the mercenary troop line.

Bandit morale shouldn't be tied to any kingdom, though.

 

[Assassinator1097]

As far as I know, bandits are not tied to any faction, though the various types can be "promoted" into recruits of different kingdoms. Sea Raiders become Nord Recruits, Forest Bandits become Swadian Recruits, etc...The standard "Bandit" troop type (the ones you'll fight for a few different quests, like rescuing the kidnapped girl) will - like farmers - promote into the mercenary troop line.

Bandit morale shouldn't be tied to any kingdom, though.

If that's true, then you have found a way too get faction troops without decrease in morale, although probably not a very easy way to gain them, lol.

 

[Wheem]

As far as I know, bandits are not tied to any faction, though the various types can be "promoted" into recruits of different kingdoms. Sea Raiders become Nord Recruits, Forest Bandits become Swadian Recruits, etc...The standard "Bandit" troop type (the ones you'll fight for a few different quests, like rescuing the kidnapped girl) will - like farmers - promote into the mercenary troop line.

Bandit morale shouldn't be tied to any kingdom, though.

If that's true, then you have found a way too get faction troops without decrease in morale, although probably not a very easy way to gain them, lol.

Well, once the bandits are promoted to faction troops, they'll be treated just like any other soldier that originates in that kingdom. While still in their bandit form though, they shouldn't get any bonus or penalty due to faction morale modifiers.

 

[reallybigjohnson]

yeah the upkeep on mercenary soldiers is pricey not to mention you cant get them in as great of numbers as you can just going from village to village. 

i really dont want to lower their cost cause thats kind of cheating.  it would be nice to have my own faction though and a simple fort to run my operations from.  i really dont want to be king and i cant stand the kings ingame, although the pearl one chick is kinda hot. 

 

[Falcon Critical]

Both Mercenary Crossbowmen and Camp Defenders (one rank below Sword Sister) are competant enough as archers, plus they cost next to nothing in wages. 

 

[Wheem]

Mercenary Crossbowmen have pretty weak armor, and don't seem to fare very well in melee, but are otherwise solid units. Honestly, when I've used some in field battles they seem to perform comparably to Rhodok/Swadian Sharpshooters in ranged combat.

 

[CryoNomad]

16 companions

 

[Falcon Critical]

Mercenary Crossbowmen have pretty weak armor, and don't seem to fare very well in melee, but are otherwise solid units. Honestly, when I've used some in field battles they seem to perform comparably to Rhodok/Swadian Sharpshooters in ranged combat.

What are merc crossbowmen doing in melee?  Even in sieges I line my archers up outside the walls to provide suppressing fire.

 

[SPD_Phoenix]

Companions as mentioned.

Manhunter troop tree (slave chiefs as heavy cav), sword sisters (light cav), sea raiders (main infantry), steppe bandits (as archer/horse archers). Plus other bandit types if you like. The problem is finding enough of them. I usually go for the bandit groups that hold manhunters and peasant women prisoner. Rescue the prisoners and capture the bandits. Recruit the bandits if they are the type I want.

 

[Rephikul]

If you count the kidnapped girl, she is also neutral, can never be killed, need no wage and does level up.
You cannot upgrade her gear or assign her points tho.

If you dont mind being the cheating bastard like I am you can have bandits spawn every 8h. Then there's no shortage of them among your own lords. Throw feast every now and then and they'd dump a bunches of them in your prison. Every town also have like 300 looters and bandits in their prison, ready for you to replenish after a siege also.

 

[Polar777]

I smack Sea raiders and turn them into my loyal slaves
they are guarding my main cities


they are cheap and powerful, its a nice view seeing axes and javelins being thrown to the poor fellas climbing the ladder

and my archery skill is 513 ;p

i have to admit that they are hard to get though, took me few trips to get like 80 of them

 

[Puritan]

Mercenaries, Manhunters, Sword Sisters, and the various bandits are the only neutral military units around (not counting companions). Now that faction troops cost money to promote, the higher tier mercenary hiring price is actually not too bad - their upkeep is still pretty hefty, though.

Eh? So far as I know, from 1.113 on they've always cost money to promote.

IMHO it isn't that mercs cost too much, but that you don't get what you pay for. Merc cavalry costs about as much to maintain as Swadian Knights (!) but are no where near as effective, or rugged.

16 companions

I think he wants to fight.

10 is the max.


Sword Sisters are pretty (in more ways than one) good Medium Cavalry. The problem is (aside from them dying like flies against top tier cav) finding enough peasant women, and then keeping them alive long enough to upgrade.

Every town also have like 300 looters and bandits in their prison, ready for you to replenish after a siege also.

Holy Soviet Penal Battalions Batman~! "The one with the crossbow shoots. When he dies, the one with the 2 bolts picks it up..."

 

[Wheem]

[quote author=Falcon Critical]What are merc crossbowmen doing in melee?  Even in sieges I line my archers up outside the walls to provide suppressing fire.[/quote]
It's not possible to keep archers completely out of melee in all battles. They can be attacked by both cavalry and infantry at various times. In these cases, they're weaker than T4-5 Swadian and Rhodok Crossbowmen; but their ranged abilities actually seem pretty comparable.

[quote author=Puritan]Eh? So far as I know, from 1.113 on they've always cost money to promote.[/quote]
They've cost money to promote since Warband was in beta. I was making a comparison to the original M&B, when the only advantage to mercs was that they were available immediately, and didn't need to be trained up. Even then, that advantage only belonged to the upper tiers.

Now that faction troops cost money to promote, the price difference (barring upkeep cost) is pretty small, especially when you account for the fact that some of your recruits may not survive to become top tier units. If you want 10 Vaegir Marksmen, you may need to hire a lot more than 10 men. Mercs also don't need to deal with the faction morale penalties, which didn't exist in the original M&B.

[quote author=Puritan]IMHO it isn't that mercs cost too much, but that you don't get what you pay for. Merc cavalry costs about as much to maintain as Swadian Knights (!) but are no where near as effective, or rugged.[/quote]
I think the cavalry either needs a cost reduction, or armored horses. Coursers might be decent for smaller battles, but they're a liability in larger ones. The guys that ride hunters fare a bit better, but I'd like to see at least some of them riding warhorses. Maybe a 50/50 or 25/75 split between hunters/warhorses would be good.

[quote author=Puritan]10 is the max.[/quote]
Depends on how you define "max" really. Eight companions is the most you can have without infighting, in the native game. I've seen claims of people having around 12 without tweaks or cheats, managed by having lots of food, combat morale, etc...And with a game tweak, you can have all sixteen with no morale/happiness penalties.

 

[Falcon Critical]

[quote author=Falcon Critical]What are merc crossbowmen doing in melee?  Even in sieges I line my archers up outside the walls to provide suppressing fire.

It's not possible to keep archers completely out of melee in all battles. They can be attacked by both cavalry and infantry at various times. In these cases, they're weaker than T4-5 Swadian and Rhodok Crossbowmen; but their ranged abilities actually seem pretty comparable.[/quote]

Of course, no soldier is ever safe - it is always a key battle strategy for me to keep my archers untroubled, and failing that, the other benefit of merc crossbowmen is that farmers are easy to come by and upgrade to merc xbows in a matter of days even if you don't fight at all. 

Camp Defenders are even cheaper to maintain and are similar in terms of ranged effectiveness, however not every CD will have a crossbow.  If there were a way to choose which you allowed to level to Sword Sister they'd be more effective but as it stands I end up with some axe/shield CDs standing in my archer line.