BEAST - Bannerlord Early Access Skirmish Tournament

[Greedalicious]

Since TaleWorlds decided to **** over the game again by giving any javelin the option to instacrush all shields in the game, I suggest we put the tournament on hold until this is fixed @Aeronwen @Ikea Knight

Whoever thinks you can play this game properly with all shielding breaking in an instant is not a sane person.

Also many people can't even launch the game properly, so teams will have probably half their roster not available.

Wouldnt mind that either, the insta break is really unfun to play with.
With regards, every single infantry player thats ever lived.

 

[Mexicano the Mountain]

skipping two divisions from winning 1 set sounds like madness to me

 

[KnightZz]

(sorry for my tone of speech and my English skills. im rly angry)
Why you didn't say about it at the beggining? We (div chao) collected new members most of them never played clan matches. We lost 1st and 2nd match but we are improving week by week. We were motivated. We won 3rd and 4th. We played rly well on training match against BROs from div B. If we will win 5th with a 5-point advantage we have a chance for 2nd placeand now even if we will achieve this it's all for nothing!!!!!! If we know about it we wouldn't care about winning the remaining matches. We could even focus on the sixth place get demoted to division E and smurfing there to advance by two divisions because the risk of losing in division E is much lower than in division D (unless AE would come back).

This is exactly what I pointed out here but with a concrete exemple

EDIT! : One more point: If you allow 2 teams to move up / 2 teams to move down (potentially), each match is highly valuable, because their are only the 2 middle spots who are "safe"
If you dont, teams could quickly be in the situation of: I lost one match, I probably cant be promoted this season, so I just lose interest in the competition untill the following season.

I join your pov Zdzichu as we're in the same situation in div E

 

[KnightZz]

Following a constructive discussion with @Llaakkee where I had the chance to explain how I would deal with the promotion part of the BEAST, he motivated me to share it here.

So imagine if you adopt what I call the 2 - 2 - 2 rule (2 teams could be promoted - 2 teams remain in their current div - 2 teams could be demoted). It implies that every week of competition is vital for pretty much everyone; and you can re-evaluate your season's goal in the middle of the competition. Am I fighting to be promoted? To stay in the div?
If you have only one team moving forward and one team being dropped; the situation is really less-likely to balance from one situation to another.

Now, how to be sure that the #2 team deserve to be promoted?

Lets just host a play-off between the #5 #6 #1 #2

It could be a GSL format, split on 3 (smallers?) matchweeks.

-> #6 Vs #1
-> #5 Vs #2

Imagine #1 and #5 win; round 2 would be

-> #1 Vs #5 -> Winner is qualified / remain in the upper division
-> #6 Vs #2 -> Loser is demoted / remain in the lower division

Then you have one last match between the two remaining teams, winner go to upper div, loser go to lower div.


Why would it be an intersting thing to have such play off?
Well imo it will add variety to the tournament and allow everyone to taste the playoffs atmosphere elsewhere than on the top of Div A

thanks for reading mates (yes I'm try harding to change the rules)

​

 

[Dark ?]

There are only 6 teams per division so only 5 matches to play. I think it's fast enough to allow only one team to go up.

 

[TheBard]

Following a constructive discussion with @Llaakkee where I had the chance to explain how I would deal with the promotion part of the BEAST, he motivated me to share it here.

So imagine if you adopt what I call the 2 - 2 - 2 rule (2 teams could be promoted - 2 teams remain in their current div - 2 teams could be demoted). It implies that every week of competition is vital for pretty much everyone; and you can re-evaluate your season's goal in the middle of the competition. Am I fighting to be promoted? To stay in the div?
If you have only one team moving forward and one team being dropped; the situation is really less-likely to balance from one situation to another.

Now, how to be sure that the #2 team deserve to be promoted?

Lets just host a play-off between the #5 #6 #1 #2

It could be a GSL format, split on 3 (smallers?) matchweeks.

-> #6 Vs #1
-> #5 Vs #2

Imagine #1 and #5 win; round 2 would be

-> #1 Vs #5 -> Winner is qualified / remain in the upper division
-> #6 Vs #2 -> Loser is demoted / remain in the lower division

Then you have one last match between the two remaining teams, winner go to upper div, loser go to lower div.


Why would it be an intersting thing to have such play off?
Well imo it will add variety to the tournament and allow everyone to taste the playoffs atmosphere elsewhere than on the top of Div A

thanks for reading mates (yes I'm try harding to change the rules)

​

I have a suggestion for you: Instead of tryharding to change the rules, tryhard the 5 weeks in the tournament - like everyone else - and stomp your division as top tog and go to promotion. This discussion here is starting to get stupid, since we had the top 2 promote in an 8 week tournament with 8 teams per division. Now the tournament is literally cut short by three weeks (so the next tournament might come sooner than you think).

This rule is literally put in place to prevent the aforementioned stomping and speed up the sorting of the divisions. Instead destabilizing everything but the two in the middle will just be not good for the teams when the game is in such a sorry state.

 

[Teugata]

Why not vote on it, see how popular this idea really is?

1. The system as it is proposed including fast track
2. The system as it is proposed but where 2nd place is included in the fast track battle (with 1st of lower and 5th of higher in a three-way)
3. Two promotions, 2 demotions, no fast track, possibly with matches only between 2nd of lower vs 5th of higher

 

[Dextrus]

I think the system right now is fine.

The divisions are very small right and enable fast promotion for everyone. You just have to get first place.

In case of Div C-A it is even fairer because it might actually protect Div B teams from a whole season of stomping and the next season the second place from Div B has an even better shot, because the better teams are now in Div A.

Let us just play through one of the current scenarios.

Tonight DR plays Div. If DR wins, they will be third place, while either Div or SGM will be 5th place.
Mori will then play one of those teams for a fast promotion. I think that the chances of Mori winning are rather low, but we will see.
First place from Div B gets to play in Div A...yeay They obv deserved it.
Now I can see the argument from the second in Div B, that they might be better than that Div C team. But they had the chance to get the first place the last season.

 

[Aeronwen]

Why not vote on it, see how popular this idea really is?

1. The system as it is proposed including fast track
2. The system as it is proposed but where 2nd place is included in the fast track battle (with 1st of lower and 5th of higher in a three-way)
3. Two promotions, 2 demotions, no fast track, possibly with matches only between 2nd of lower vs 5th of higher

If you want a different tournament then run a different tournament. The BEAST admins are always happy to discuss tournament schedules with other admins and help make sure there is time for all.

However this tournament is predicated on teams playing in divisions against teams of similar skill.
The progression is designed to facilitate teams being in the division most suited to their skill level.

The changes you propose will mix up the divisions and end with teams in unsuitable divisions. There is no reason to do this and it will not enhance the experience of the teams in BEAST.

 

[Teugata]

The changes you propose will mix up the divisions and end with teams in unsuitable divisions.

What? Please explain how exactly this would happen with what I proposed?

 

[Waljaaa]

For example when it comes to division A - B, if you have 2 teams going down from A one of those will be either SGM or Div, as one of them will have the 5th place.
No matter who in division B gets 2nd place, both SGM and Div are far better than any of those teams.
SGM or Div would next season end up smashing division B completely because they both don't belong there and literally any team from B that would become 2nd this season doesn't belong in A either next season.

It's the admin's tournament and while they spend alot of time listening to the community and changing reasonable things for the community, it's still their tournament and not a tournament from the community.

 

[Einarcf]

Its way harder to get 2nd in B than 1st in C. Probably even 3rd tbh

 

[TheBard]

Tonight DR plays Div. If DR wins, they will be third place, while either Div or SGM will be 5th place.
Mori will then play one of those teams for a fast promotion. I think that the chances of Mori winning are rather low, but we will see.

Since my team is now concerned: We will accept the chance offered to us, it's an honor to be able to play an official against either of those Division A stacks.

But yeah, the gap as big as the jaws of oblivion between A and B, so imagine yourself how the match might go. Regardless, we are ready for it and we will play and try our best.

Its way harder to get 2nd in B than 1st in C. Probably even 3rd tbh

To be honest, I don't think DoF is particularly happy about their prize for winning Div B.

 

[Einarcf]

To be honest, I don't think DoF is particularly happy about their prize for winning Div B.

I'd much rather there be a playoff between 1st B and 6th A than auto-promotion.

I guess it adds tension during the regular season to not end 6th, but if you can't beat the lowest team in division, you should not be there.

*Edit* Also, they could presumably swap with a division B team for next season if they don't want to be in A.

 

[Aeronwen]

I'd much rather there be a playoff between 1st B and 6th A than auto-promotion.

I guess it adds tension during the regular season to not end 6th, but if you can't beat the lowest team in division, you should not be there.

*Edit* Also, they could presumably swap with a division B team for next season if they don't want to be in A.

That actually would be more consistant with our approach to this tournament. I can't remember offhand why we didn't just do that. It might be somethign we should look at, if its what the teams prefer.

 

[Erminas]

I am really not sure where did you get the idea we do not want to be in A division...

Even weakened for this edition of Beast, with Krex and Berta being out/loaned for the duration of the season, we started with a humble goal of surviving the division B, but as time passed ambitions grew.
Still our goal was to try and win every match and this roster kept on improving and growing as months have been passing by. Initial delaying of the Beast may actually prove to be main factor in our successful run, cuz we had more than enough time for team to get used to our new cav addition Kawaii and for some players to adopt to their new roles (Strider as cav, Kohath as main archer for example). Also all of us had to get used to new scrim leader Tom. So extra time definitely did us good, even tho we were initially disappointed by the delay (cuz of NC):p
It was almost as we had a training camp similar to what sport teams do before the season starts:p

So, ye division A will be hard, but with few player returning we want to give it a shot and ppl are looking forward to it.

 

[Dextrus]

Its way harder to get 2nd in B than 1st in C. Probably even 3rd tbh

That might be true, but the point of the fast promotion path is, that the first team in Dic C might actually be better than the rest of Div B.

If that proves to be wrong by losing to the 5th place of Div A, that Div C team will play in Div B anyway. I think it is a good compromise.

 

[Aeronwen]

well that seems settled then.

 

[Einarcf]

That might be true, but the point of the fast promotion path is, that the first team in Dic C might actually be better than the rest of Div B.

If that proves to be wrong by losing to the 5th place of Div A, that Div C team will play in Div B anyway. I think it is a good compromise.

Except for 2nd team in "X" division. I think everyone else is pretty happy.
*Edited for clarity*

 

[Ondine la Badine]

Announcing this rule 1 week before the end of the season is a big mistake.

Then, having only 1 team up and 1 team down per division gives nearly no fluidity to the league, and I thought I understood the admins wanted fluidity.
Or maybe I was wrong, they wanted fluidity for a few very specific teams that can bypass the climbing, and even at the cost of fluidity for the others.

Then there is the perfect example of Mor. They topped div C easily and get a promotion match to div A.
In div B, DoF is in a good place to get first spot, but there are at least 3 other teams (MoB, KW and us) that beat Mor all the time (and I'm not exagerating), and those 3 teams don't get a promotion match.
Mor should at least have a match against the second div B team, to see if they deserve this div A promotion match, because this rule spoils the best teams of a division that don't finish first.

Would we have known this rule before the beginning of the season, we could have asked to be demoted into div C. This way, we would have had an easy season and even got an easy shot to a promotion match to div A. Now we are stuck and see guys with lesser results have the shot those 3 teams of div B I mentionned can't have.

I really see favoritism in this ruling, which doesn't fit a true competitive scene.

Kwen.