BEAST - Bannerlord Early Access Skirmish Tournament

[TheBard]

So, what is going to happen with the promotion, @Aeronwen @Ikea Knight ? Same format like last season?

 

[Ikea Knight]

nope

I think it's best explaned with an example. Let's take Division A-C.


The winner of each division get's the chance to fast promote / fast progress. That's where the promotion matches take place.

For example the winner of division C gets to play the 2nd last / penultimate team of division A for a spot in A division.
The winner goes to div A, the loser goes to div B.

So the winner of each division always moves up to the next higher division and the loser of a division is always demoted.


Here is an awesome graphic to confuse you even more.

Basically: The winner of a division always moves up.
The last place always moves down.
The 2nd last place plays for it's spot in the division against the winner of the the division two divisions below.

Obviously the winners of div A and B can't get into fast progression.

 

[KnightZz]

So the 2nd of div B / C / D / E does not play a promotion match for the upper division?

Instead of auto move down the 6th of a div, that team could play a match against the second of the lower div

 

[Ikea Knight]

So the 2nd of div B / C / D / E does not play a promotion match for the upper division?

Instead of auto move down the 6th of a div, that team could play a match against the second of the lower div

Since there is an auto move up there also needs to be an auto move down So that slot needs to be free.

Also I think in divisions of 8 having the top two teams potentially progress is okay. In teams of six having two teams progressing means 1/3 of the division could potentially move up.

 

[Dark ?]

In a division of 6 teams, the winner of a division should take the place of the last team of the higher division. The match between the winner of division C and the penultimate team of division A is nonsense.

 

[Ikea Knight]

In a division of 6 teams, the winner of a division should take the place of the last team of the higher division. The match between the winner of division C and the penultimate team of division A is nonsense.

it's not nonsens

tbh I doubt there is any chance the the winner of Div C can beat a div A team.

but what about div E vs div C?
it's just something to potentially speed up the ladder.
Last season AE had to be placed into the lowest division where they just overpowered everyone. They probably would have been able to easily skip a division.

It's obvious that it gets harder the higher your division is. But I think it's a good things for lower divisions where it's harder to estimate the players.

 

[KnightZz]

I dont see it as a problem to have in a 6 teams div potentially 2 teams moving up / 2 teams movings down.

Its more challenging for everyone and give each seasons more worth and competitiveness
Plus each seasons "new" teams (I mean in BEAST) tend to overpower the others, in the lowers divs. It was AE in BEAST 4, its PV in BEAST 5, it might be the Runaway Scorpions in BEAST 6. It gives really few room for manoeuvre to more average teams like us that post decent results and might get stuck to lower div for consecutives seasons.
Pls consider it

EDIT! : One more point: If you allow 2 teams to move up / 2 teams to move down (potentially), each match is highly valuable, because their are only the 2 middle spots who are "safe"
If you dont, teams could quickly be in the situation of: I lost one match, I probably cant be promoted this season, so I just lose interest in the competition untill the following season.

 

[Llaakkee]

I It was AE in BEAST 4, its PV in BEAST 5, it might be the Runaway Scorpions in BEAST 6. It gives really few room for manoeuvre to more average teams like us that post decent results and might get stuck to lower div for consecutives seasons.

I would like to point out that we haven't been doing miles better than yourselves, with the only match you have lost being against us, and many of your victories have been more convincing than ours. Even taking our two teams comparatively high performance into account, I think that across all divisons this season (with 6 team divisions) has had some of the closest scores across the whole tournament, and if four teams in each division could be switched up, two thirds of each division could potentionally be in jeopardy each season, which in my opinion it removes some of the competitive elements and rivalries between teams.

The lowest division has always had the biggest disparity amongst the teams because it's the entry division; when it was Div D with 12 or so teams, the highest two teams (still 1/6) only had a chance at promotion, and the third, or fourth teams could have been only one match away from promotion just the same as you are now. Unfortunately, the line has to be drawn somewhere and this does seem to be a better system than we had previously.

 

[TheBard]

I dont see it as a problem to have in a 6 teams div potentially 2 teams moving up / 2 teams movings down.

Its more challenging for everyone and give each seasons more worth and competitiveness
Plus each seasons "new" teams (I mean in BEAST) tend to overpower the others, in the lowers divs. It was AE in BEAST 4, its PV in BEAST 5, it might be the Runaway Scorpions in BEAST 6. It gives really few room for manoeuvre to more average teams like us that post decent results and might get stuck to lower div for consecutives seasons.
Pls consider it

EDIT! : One more point: If you allow 2 teams to move up / 2 teams to move down (potentially), each match is highly valuable, because their are only the 2 middle spots who are "safe"
If you dont, teams could quickly be in the situation of: I lost one match, I probably cant be promoted this season, so I just lose interest in the competition untill the following season.

I don't think the community is big enough for a killer stack to develop for each division each season every time, it's rather the case that the current teams across the divisions are in their spot for some time, some very comfortable where they are.
If this balance is shifted up partially, then one team can start to stomp through, observable in not only one division, but multiple ones (Div E: PV, Div D: Wolfpack, Div C: Memento Mori)

I like the idea about the fast promotion, since it might send these "Stompers" quicker into a division where they belong and it will long term improve the balance in the divisions.

 

[Kunshiro]

I mean its quite stupid to always have new teams start from the bottom. Just have them play a match with a div c/d and see how it goes

 

[IceNoVa]

Thing is, unless someone is dropping out, those spots are occupied. And nobody wants to have their promotion taken by some other squad, or be relegated even though they weren't last, just because one match with a new squad is lost.
It'd be possible to throw new teams into the play-offs of each season, however there's a lot to doubt there regarding how sensible such a decision would be.
My prefered solution would be sibling divisions, but that would require a larger number of teams than what we have right now.
It could also be an option to have an additional play-off match for the lowest divisions to account for new teams finding their place.

 

[TheBard]

Since TaleWorlds decided to **** over the game again by giving any javelin the option to instacrush all shields in the game, I suggest we put the tournament on hold until this is fixed @Aeronwen @Ikea Knight

Whoever thinks you can play this game properly with all shielding breaking in an instant is not a sane person.

Also many people can't even launch the game properly, so teams will have probably half their roster not available.

 

[Teugata]

nope

I think it's best explaned with an example. Let's take Division A-C.


The winner of each division get's the chance to fast promote / fast progress. That's where the promotion matches take place.

For example the winner of division C gets to play the 2nd last / penultimate team of division A for a spot in A division.
The winner goes to div A, the loser goes to div B.

So the winner of each division always moves up to the next higher division and the loser of a division is always demoted.


Here is an awesome graphic to confuse you even more.

Basically: The winner of a division always moves up.
The last place always moves down.
The 2nd last place plays for it's spot in the division against the winner of the the division two divisions below.

Obviously the winners of div A and B can't get into fast progression.

After much consideration and discussions with a whole lot of people listening to all the various points of views I also belief this system should not be used.

It actually breaks the promotion track more then it presumably fixes it by only allowing 1 team to promote/relegate each season which is too slow it should be 2 teams up 2 teams down or it will take forever to go higher once you are already in a higher div. On top of this it is entirely unfair to allow e.g. the nr1 div C team to bypass the entire div B and play in div A instead of the 2nd place of B who worked hard to win against other div B teams to be 2nd and has already worked hard to be in this division in the first place whereas whatever team is in div C is both unlikely to be good enough and hasn't proven itself at all even if it steamrolled its division, its too easy, too cheaty, and unfair to the people that actually deserve it.

Next thing you know people will purposefully relegate themselves so they can become 1st in the easy div just for a free promotion match against only the worst of the higher div which might be bad for any number of reasons.

 

[TheBard]

After much consideration and discussions with a whole lot of people listening to all the various points of views I also belief this system should not be used.

It actually breaks the promotion track more then it presumably fixes it by only allowing 1 team to promote/relegate each season which is too slow it should be 2 teams up 2 teams down or it will take forever to go higher once you are already in a higher div. On top of this it is entirely unfair to allow e.g. the nr1 div C team to bypass the entire div B and play in div A instead of the 2nd place of B who worked hard to win against other div B teams to be 2nd and has already worked hard to be in this division in the first place whereas whatever team is in div C is both unlikely to be good enough and hasn't proven itself at all even if it steamrolled its division, its too easy, too cheaty, and unfair to the people that actually deserve it.

Next thing you know people will purposefully relegate themselves so they can become 1st in the easy div just for a free promotion match against only the worst of the higher div which might be bad for any number of reasons.

Let a Div C team win against a Division A team. It's a considerably harder task than to get into Div B from Div D.

 

[Aeronwen]

After much consideration and discussions with a whole lot of people listening to all the various points of views I also belief this system should not be used.

It actually breaks the promotion track more then it presumably fixes it by only allowing 1 team to promote/relegate each season which is too slow it should be 2 teams up 2 teams down or it will take forever to go higher once you are already in a higher div. On top of this it is entirely unfair to allow e.g. the nr1 div C team to bypass the entire div B and play in div A instead of the 2nd place of B who worked hard to win against other div B teams to be 2nd and has already worked hard to be in this division in the first place whereas whatever team is in div C is both unlikely to be good enough and hasn't proven itself at all even if it steamrolled its division, its too easy, too cheaty, and unfair to the people that actually deserve it.

Next thing you know people will purposefully relegate themselves so they can become 1st in the easy div just for a free promotion match against only the worst of the higher div which might be bad for any number of reasons.

I don't think you have understood the system...

taking your example
the div C 1st team would still have to win their promotion match against the 5th place div A team in order to go to div A. If they won that match then clearly B would not be the right division for them anyway and if they lose that match they will be placed in div B.

The 2nd place div B team has already had a chance to show that they were best of the div B and didnt win overall so they really have no claim. If they cant win in Div B how will it help them to go down to div C for a season? They would still have to spend a season winning teh div (if they can) and they would have to play against a div A team to get the div A place, since they cant win in div B this seems unlikely so they will end back in div B.

If any team does think that deliberately engineering a relegation so they will have an easier path to promotion it will at least provide a lot of amusement for the rest of us ^^

 

[Teugata]

I understood the system in its entirety.
It makes no sense to allow the div C winner to skip an entire division (sure I forgot to add only if they win from 5th div A) in favor of the 2nd place in div B who not only already had to have won div C once to be there at all, they are also denied any opportunity to proof that they are either better then the 5th of divA or better then the winner of div C.

Btw. I never said I think 2nd place should at all have any risk of relegating, I don't understand why you even mention this.

 

[KnightZz]

Div A #5 Vs Div B #2
Div A #6 Vs Div B #1

Div B #5 Vs Div C #2
Div B #6 Vs Div C #1

and so on is so much more competitive imo than the "fast promote" system you're adopting but its your tournament, your rules after all.

 

[Aeronwen]

Div A #5 Vs Div B #2
Div A #6 Vs Div B #1

Div B #5 Vs Div C #2
Div B #6 Vs Div C #1

and so on is so much more competitive imo than the "fast promote" system you're adopting but its your tournament, your rules after all.

Ye that was a possibility ofc
Remembering that the main aim of the BEAST series is to have teams playing, as far as possible, against teams of a similar skill level: the problem we saw with moving to a smaller div size (6) was that with more divisions a new but very skilled team starting in a lower div would take a long time to get to their correct skill level.

This system would make that a shorter time (only if the team has the skill to win against higher div teams).

There is obviously a place for other sorts of tournaments (in particular I would like to see a straight KO tourney) as well as BEAST. But BEAST is about teams finding their level and playing within that level.

 

[Teugata]

With this thing only one team from divB will ever be able to promote to A. And likewise only one team will ever be able to promote from div C to div B (or A in your new thing) etc. If anything you made promoting a hell of a lot slower in general by allowing only one team to promote which was my earlier point.

If you want to fast track don't do it at the expense of the number twos. Promote them or let them battle it out, THEN do your fast track against the winner of whoever is gonna be the new 6th.
To simplify;
If divB 2nd beats div C 1st they should promote instead

 

[Zdzichu]

(sorry for my tone of speech and my English skills. im rly angry)
Why you didn't say about it at the beggining? We (div chao) collected new members most of them never played clan matches. We lost 1st and 2nd match but we are improving week by week. We were motivated. We won 3rd and 4th. We played rly well on training match against BROs from div B. If we will win 5th with a 5-point advantage we have a chance for 2nd placeand now even if we will achieve this it's all for nothing!!!!!! If we know about it we wouldn't care about winning the remaining matches. We could even focus on the sixth place get demoted to division E and smurfing there to advance by two divisions because the risk of losing in division E is much lower than in division D (unless AE would come back).