BEAST - Bannerlord Early Access Skirmish Tournament

BEAST is the first Bannerlord Skirmish tournament in Europe.

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Bannerlord
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English (UK)
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[BEAST 5] Suggestions

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Teugata

Regular
I have no problem translating it I am simply baffled by the choice of mandating BST. It might as well be CST (China Standard Time*) in terms of how weird it is. Not to mention it also requires everyone to be aware of british summer time which makes even less sense. If summertime change is in the middle of a beast season, will you keep using BST or start using BT/GMT again all of a sudden?

*TIL Americans and Chinese like to add even more confusion by both using the CST abbreviating, at least for china it makes sense, America is very americanish I suppose for calling theirs "central standard time" as if they are the center of the world
 
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TheBard ✂

Salt Knight
Master Knight
I don't see this problem with BST at all. I just translate it to my time.
UTC+0 would be fine for me as well, but that is basicly GMT.
 

Teugata

Regular
@Bard So let's make it China Standard Time cause why not, just because you can translate it doesn't mean it makes sense to use it.

@Einar you seem to be missing my point entirely, please take some time to reread my post. There is no difference between BST and CEST from my point of view, both are equally ridiculous no matter what the majority uses. It's not about that. There's a perfectly nice standardized system already which exists specifically for this reason, and we are not using it why?
 
Any particular timezone is going to be easy for the people living in that timezone and less so for people living elsewhere.

The important thing really, is that we are consistent so all players know what to expect. A lack of consistency is what leads to misunderstanding about what time is agreed.

GMT/BST has been used as the default in most Warband tourneys for many years. It would seem perverse to change it now.

In most official timings we use a countdown from time&date (*link here* to make your own). It is really helpful as everyone can easily see what the set time is in their own timezone.

If summertime change is in the middle of a beast season, will you keep using BST or start using BT/GMT again all of a sudden?

That happens twice every year ^^ we change with the timezone change. Most of Europe make sthe same change (though increasingly some dont) so it maintains the time difference for the majority of players.

You can and should expect the admins to be alert enought o make a post reminding everyone though. Not least because Turkey stopped making teh summertime change a few years ago and America makes the change at a different date.
 
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Teugata

Regular
Any particular timezone is going to be easy for the people living in that timezone and less so for people living elsewhere.
Which is exactly why I don't propose to use any particular timezone but instead the standardized timezone format, either GMT with +- timezone notation or if you want a set time the GMT/UTC +0 also called Zulu timezone as default which disregards summertime and the like. These have been in use internationally for decades and have been designed and proven effective for exactly this kind of thing time and time again and for good reason.

The important thing really, is that we are consistent so all players know what to expect. A lack of consistency is what leads to misunderstanding about what time is agreed.

GMT/BST has been used as the default in most Warband tourneys for many years. It would seem perverse to change it now.
You appeal to tradition, something that as a non-warband player I have zero relation with. Just because something has been a certain way for a lot of time doesn't mean it is the best way. Refusing to change simply because it's been like that for X time is frankly ridiculous as it makes it impossible to improve and evolve any existing system.

Tradition only ever makes sense if the old way has been proven correct when introduced, assuming this proof still holds today. Or if past justifications of the tradition are still valid meaning circumstances haven't changed. Neither seems to hold true here. In your case this is not a reason, it is an absence of a reason.

In most official timings we use a countdown from time&date (*link here* to make your own). It is really helpful as everyone can easily see what the set time is in their own timezone.
Whether the used timezone is the standardized GMT/UTC+0, BST, Chinese Standard Time or whatever else you can still use this tool to do exactly as you describe.
 
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Which is exactly why I don't propose to use any particular timezone but instead the standardized timezone format, either GMT with +- timezone notation or if you want a set time the GMT/UTC +0 also called Zulu timezone as default which disregards summertime and the like. These have been in use internationally for decades and have been designed and proven effective for exactly this kind of thing time and time again and for good reason.

As I already said any system is going to be good for some people and a bit more confusing for others. Why we would we change a largely working system just so that it is better for you?

You appeal to tradition, something that as a non-warband player I have zero relation with. Just because something has been a certain way for a lot of time doesn't mean it is the best way. Refusing to change simply because it's been like that for X time is frankly ridiculous as it makes it impossible to improve and evolve any existing system.

No, you mistake. I am not saying we do it this way because we have always done it this way. I am saying we continue to do it this way because changing will cause confusion to those who are used to it.

You say you are new to M&B competitions and you want things changed so they are done the way you are used to as that would be most convenient for you.

Timezone differences cause misunderstandngs that sometimes mean matches are not played, we try to minimise this as much as possible and for the most part we are successful.

Tradition only ever makes sense if the old way has been proven correct when introduced, assuming this proof still holds today. Or if past justifications of the tradition are still valid meaning circumstances haven't changed. Neither seems to hold true here. In your case this is not a reason, it is an absence of a reason.

There is an absence osf a reason to change. Changing any system inevtably brings a certain amount of confusion, there would have to be a benefit that outwweighed the disadvantages. So far the benefit you name is that you would prefer a system you are used to.
I don't have numbers on how many players in BEAST are old Warbanders and how many are new players but even if the new players outweighed the old players (which I am not sure they do) why would your system be any better than the old system?



It is absolutely the case that sometimes a fresh look at how things are done is helpful and can result in a benefit for all.
However in order to make a change we must first fully understand the pros and cons of the change. In this case, there is not yet any convincing argument that the pros outweigh the cons.
 
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Teugata

Regular
So far the benefit you name is that you would prefer a system you are used to.
No I propose the standardized timezone format, either GMT with +- timezone notation or if you want a set time the GMT/UTC +0 also called Zulu timezone as default which disregards summertime and the like. These have been in use internationally for decades and have been designed and proven effective for exactly this kind of thing time and time again and for good reason.

Timezone differences cause misunderstandngs
Exactly because of this I propose the system with the least chance of misunderstanding.

If using BST or any of the other time zones like CEST or EEST would be better, how come the entire world uses GMT or UTC as soon as international communication about time comes into play? Because it's the best system made specifically for this problem, and also it is unbiassed. If I wanted my preference I would debate to use CST and CEST as its my local time but I don't do that cause that's as crazy as using BST.
 
Well I must agree, that all these CEST, BST etc is pain in the head. (especially with regular switching BST to GMT and vice versa).

Would be nice, if tourney rules requires to post time offers for match in one format, which doesn't change through year, for example UTC, yeah
 

Neyth

Grandmaster Knight
WBNW
Make a vote for it for the next Beast tournament about which timezone should be used and the problem will be decided by the community. So if they prefer staying with the BST or changing it to GMT.
 
Make a vote for it for the next Beast tournament about which timezone should be used and the problem will be decided by the community. So if they prefer staying with the BST or changing it to GMT.

As long as we have a volunteer to sort out any confusions and ensure all matches are played, it's fine by me
 

Teugata

Regular
Generally you are either +0, +1, +2 or +3, it's not rocket science. The thing is going from any local time (e.g. CEST or MSK to GMT/UTC +0 is so much more sensible to do then going from any of those to BST (only brits know BST to begin with and using summer time is exactly a thing that will add confusion)).

If anything people using this system properly instead of the current one will actually educate them to use a system that is widely used internationally and should they ever work, study or otherwise touch upon an international activity this knowledge will benefit them greatly.

Also if anyone doesn't understand GMT/UTC timezone notation I volunteer to explain it to them so feel free to sent them my way if you encounter any.


For reference I also found this neet map, blue (western Europe blue not Rusia) green and yellow also have Daylight Saving Time (DST) added in the summer which is an extra +1.
europe-time-zone-map.gif
 
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Also if anyone doesn't understand GMT/UTC timezone notation I volunteer to explain it to them so feel free to sent them my way if you encounter any.

Cool
BST will remain the official timezone for this tourney anyway so anyone who has a proble with posting their match times etc in GMT please go to @Teugata
 

Teugata

Regular
Well, we won't change the time during the running tournament.
Of course, I agree that wouldn't be smart. It's more of a longterm improvement suggestion.


BST will remain the official timezone for this tourney anyway
Why aren't you open to a suggestion to change the current system which is the best system for only old warband and british players/admins and meanwhile discriminates against anyone that is not either,
to a system that is the best most unbiased and least confusing system for all players in the entire known world?

With the added advantage that being familiar with using this standardized system can and probably will help people in RL as well since it is widely used whereas translating to BST is used nowhere except maybe the commonwealth.

What is the downside to this other then we are not used to it?

anyone who has a proble with posting their match times etc in GMT please go to @Teugata
Being able to use GMT/UTC time notation is a valuable skill that will be helpful for the rest of your life, so yea by all means anyone struggling with this contact me and I will be happy to teach you!
 
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WakaWaka

Sergeant at Arms
Can we ban, throwing on horseback plz. No throwing weapon on cavalry. That kill completly the cav duel, cav duel was just great before this trash meta
 

Ikea Knight

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Can we ban, throwing on horseback plz. No throwing weapon on cavalry. That kill completly the cav duel, cav duel was just great before this trash meta
Nope
Nothing we can't control and check.
The class restriction rule already is a stretch.

Edit - but I 100% agree wtih you the throwing meta is imho the least fun playstyle since the release of early access. But I honestly don't see how we can implement it as a rule in any way.

Let's just hope that with 1.5.10 the nerf to the nukes is big enough and that it hoepfully comes soon.
 
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WakaWaka

Sergeant at Arms
Nope
Nothing we can't control and check.
The class restriction rule already is a stretch.

Edit - but I 100% agree wtih you the throwing meta is imho the least fun playstyle since the release of early access. But I honestly don't see how we can implement it as a rule in any way.

Let's just hope that with 1.5.10 the nerf to the nukes is big enough and that it hoepfully comes soon.
Let's hope :grin:
 
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