SP Native Battle Morale (v1.5 for 0.960Native)

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When extracting the file, where should I send it? Should I just click on the Modules folder like I did when I downloaded EGII the other day, or something more? Should I change the "Update Mode" or "Overwrite Mode" at all?

Thanks.  :grin:
 
This is genius, something people have requested for M&B time and time again. I hope that this becomes a staple part of many mods in the future.
 
SteppeBandit said:
When extracting the file, where should I send it? Should I just click on the Modules folder like I did when I downloaded EGII the other day, or something more? Should I change the "Update Mode" or "Overwrite Mode" at all?

Thanks.  :grin:

You need to overwrite the contents of the patch archive (both the text files and Sounds folder) over the files in the 'Expanded Gameplay II v4.25' folder. You can extract them to any folder, and then from there copy them.
 
AvaRice said:
This is genius, something people have requested for M&B time and time again. I hope that this becomes a staple part of many mods in the future.

I hope it will be part of the core game. :smile:



I see it is a global battle morale, which is great.
But is it possible to make a local moral, i.e. : (one idea) you take the radius of an imaginary circle around the unit and if another unit enters the circle it affects the units moral. So if a friendly unit is in it’s radius it ads 2 points to moral, if it’s an enemy it has -2 points. If it’s a friendly horse it ads 5, if it’s the leader it ads 10; and the same thing the other way around; an enemy horse is -5, and the enemy leader gives -10. Once it leaves, it reverses/remove the modification. So the sum of this points plus other stuff is that unit moral :smile:.
So if a fleeing unit enters its moral circle, it gives -12 points for example..


Is this possible or you need the game source code to do it. Btw, how much can you mod the game. I know to program in python, C++ and other. Maybe I can help.
 
Awesome work Chel, though I'll reserve my final judgment until after I've played it.

I agree with Dain, that after the whole army routs a dialog window, or option window, should open giving you the choice to pursue the enemy or end the battle.
 
Will this work with something like the Zulu Mod ?

can the Morale system make the enemy not flee the battle but re group ?
 
peerLAN said:
AvaRice said:
This is genius, something people have requested for M&B time and time again. I hope that this becomes a staple part of many mods in the future.

I hope it will be part of the core game. :smile:



I see it is a global battle morale, which is great.
But is it possible to make a local moral, i.e. : (one idea) you take the radius of an imaginary circle around the unit and if another unit enters the circle it affects the units moral. So if a friendly unit is in it’s radius it ads 2 points to moral, if it’s an enemy it has -2 points. If it’s a friendly horse it ads 5, if it’s the leader it ads 10; and the same thing the other way around; an enemy horse is -5, and the enemy leader gives -10. Once it leaves, it reverses/remove the modification. So the sum of this points plus other stuff is that unit moral :smile:.
So if a fleeing unit enters its moral circle, it gives -12 points for example..


Is this possible or you need the game source code to do it. Btw, how much can you mod the game. I know to program in python, C++ and other. Maybe I can help.

Well I see where you're going with it, but I think that might be a bit too complex, hard to balance, and not necessarily better than a simpler approach. Plus there isn't a 'morale' value of a particular troop, there's cohesion of the whole army and there is troop's health which is the basic value used to make decisions about running or not. A morale value could, I think, be assigned to each troop and monitored, but I'm not convinced it would make a better system. An RTS game called 'American Conquest' had a very good morale system and I tried to model mine to work in a similar (but simpler) way.


With the current set up you can apply bonuses to health and cohesion and achieve enough flexibility. For example to add an effect of being near a Lord or King (or player) in the battle field making a troop less likely to flee or rout.

How much can you mod the game? I don't know :grin: But if you've got programming experience you can probably put together some great things. I'm learning as I go.

Taal said:
Awesome work Chel, though I'll reserve my final judgment until after I've played it.

I agree with Dain, that after the whole army routs a dialog window, or option window, should open giving you the choice to pursue the enemy or end the battle.

Yeah, maybe. I'll wait for some feedback and then see what to do.
I realise that its some extra trouble to get EGII and then apply the mod to it, but I did it that way because its easier to get some troops and get into a fight in that mod, the EGII combat overall I tried to make better tuned than Native, and I think its more fun in general :grin: I didn't want to bother with 0.903 Native especially when there's 0.951.

Jlgx50 said:
Will this work with something like the Zulu Mod ?

can the Morale system make the enemy not flee the battle but re group ?

it should fine work with pretty much any mod.
regroup - you mean all move closer together? yeah its possible, I actually thought about adding that 'tactic' to the AI just to make its behaviour more varied.
 
you're just the god of modders:grin:

i hope it will be included in the 951 after the module system will be released..
 
Right, I've played it fairly thoroughly and only have two criticisms.

Firstly, You were right about the heavy cavalry charge at the beginning of the battle causing a rout, and quite rightly so my Khergit scourge of DOoM!1! scare me sometimes. However, the 30 second cohesion check is to slow. I find it funny how it's only after my cavalry is halted and the enemies prospect of winning greatly increase that they decide to rout. It's almost like they're walking away in jest while commenting on how they thought we were serious before we started dropping like flies. Haail's suggestion of 5 seconds sounds about right.

Secondly, a battle usually ends, particularly with cavalry armies, with the routed horsemen packed in a tight little group on the edge of the map totally unaware of the ensuing gang bang of horse,man and blade thats about to ensue. The group also serves as a trap, luring the odd one or two horsemen away from actual combatants during the fight to be killed when they suddenly hit the side of the map surrounded by "retreating" men. Retreating men leaving the map when they hit the side of the map, and a option to pursue the enemy or end the battle when all the enemy rout would pretty much eliminate that problem.

Other then those, awesome work, but it's probably not a good idea making Armagan look bad :razz:
 
Taal said:
Right, I've played it fairly thoroughly and only have two criticisms.

Firstly, You were right about the heavy cavalry charge at the beginning of the battle causing a rout, and quite rightly so my Khergit scourge of DOoM!1! scare me sometimes. However, the 30 second cohesion check is to slow. I find it funny how it's only after my cavalry is halted and the enemies prospect of winning greatly increase that they decide to rout. It's almost like they're walking away in jest while commenting on how they thought we were serious before we started dropping like flies. Haail's suggestion of 5 seconds sounds about right.

Secondly, a battle usually ends, particularly with cavalry armies, with the routed horsemen packed in a tight little group on the edge of the map totally unaware of the ensuing gang bang of horse,man and blade thats about to ensue. The group also serves as a trap, luring the odd one or two horsemen away from actual combatants during the fight to be killed when they suddenly hit the side of the map surrounded by "retreating" men. Retreating men leaving the map when they hit the side of the map, and a option to pursue the enemy or end the battle when all the enemy rout would pretty much eliminate that problem.

Other then those, awesome work, but it's probably not a good idea making Armagan look bad :razz:

Thanks for the feedback!

the rout check is made every 5 seconds, not 30 (and cohesion is recalculated right then), so after inflicting large damage, the enemy should rout in 5 seconds at most. Is that the case, and is that still too much? Or is it taking up to 30 seconds for some reason?

about the second, yeah, I could either do that, or have you noticed how the AI will rally some of its routed troops every 70 seconds? so they will leave the corner of cowards and rejoing the fight? So if you wait a bit, they will come out of the corner (and you can rally your own out of yours), unless they are very heavily wounded.

plus, having a lone horseman killed by a group of battle deserters doenst sounds too bad, as well as the same group of deserters slaughtered in the end, if you have the manpower left. If not, end the battle.

one question, did you find the bravery bonus to cohesion too large? I'm thinking perhaps its better to make it equal 1/2 of player's kills instead of straight players kills? Or is it okay?
 
pentagathus said:
Wait this is out? Do I just re-download Expanded gameplay?

No, you just need to apply the Battle Morale patch to 4.25 version of the mod. Then on one of the start screens the version number will be 4.25bm instead of 4.25
 
Ok thanks.
Edit: What the hells happened to the sounds? Most of them are there but I can no longer hear hoof beats or the sound of my axe swinging. I wana hear swinging :grin:
 
pentagathus said:
Ok thanks.
Edit: What the hells happened to the sounds? Most of them are there but I can no longer hear hoof beats or the sound of my axe swinging. I wana hear swinging :grin:

did you load a previous save game? I added some new sounds, you have to start a new game.
 
Chel said:
pentagathus said:
Ok thanks.
Edit: What the hells happened to the sounds? Most of them are there but I can no longer hear hoof beats or the sound of my axe swinging. I wana hear swinging :grin:

did you load a previous save game? I added some new sounds, you have to start a new game.
This raven/crow sound is wonderful. It gave me creeps first time I've heard it during the battle.  :grin:

Okay my comments to the mod:
First of all the idea is great and it seems to work perfectly. I've just tested it with some minor battles. The game is getting more and more difficult thanks to your work Chel :wink:
One thing just needs to be done. Fled troops should disappear from battlefield (should exit). And there should be some way to finish the battle after all enemy is routing.
Someone has given the idea of removing fled troops from party as if they deserted. Maybe after-battle report should include killed, wounded and fled troops?

That's it for now. Going back to testing in siege :wink:
 
With regards to the troops getting stuck on the edge, I think they should hang about for say about 2 checks or something along those lines. This gives them time to watch the battle and perhaps decide to return and help. Or they could decide that all is indeed hopeless, and that they should continue to leg it and be removed from the field.. obviously being attacked would probably make them decide to go.
 
Radegast said:
Chel said:
pentagathus said:
Ok thanks.
Edit: What the hells happened to the sounds? Most of them are there but I can no longer hear hoof beats or the sound of my axe swinging. I wana hear swinging :grin:

did you load a previous save game? I added some new sounds, you have to start a new game.
This raven/crow sound is wonderful. It gave me creeps first time I've heard it during the battle.  :grin:

there are 20 new ambient sounds


yeah, I'll try to add the battle ending after one of the sides is routed completely. But you can tab out of the fight if you've routed the enemy and don't want to pursue them, right? And if the enemy routed your troops, I'm not sure its fair to end the battle and not give them the chance to pursue.. if you want to save the routed troops you should keep them safe from pursuers and try to tab out. Does anyone agree?

what about the bravery bonus, I'm wondering if its effect is too much. Anyone been able to rout the enemy too easily with it? Or is it fine?

the way it would work now, if you attacked a group of 40 by yourself, and killed 12 if them without getting a scratch, they would rout. Realistic? If some guy takes them on a group of 40, kills 12, and they can't even touch him, I think they should run. Of course if they wound you, you'll have to kill more than 12 before they run. Yeah :grin:

Dain Ironfoot said:
With regards to the troops getting stuck on the edge, I think they should hang about for say about 2 checks or something along those lines. This gives them time to watch the battle and perhaps decide to return and help. Or they could decide that all is indeed hopeless, and that they should continue to leg it and be removed from the field.. obviously being attacked would probably make them decide to go.

rout checks or rally checks? because rout checks do not make them come back into the fight, and rally checks (AI's version of Battle Cry) take place every 70 seconds.

I'm not sure there is a way to remove them from the field, the alternative is to end the battle when everyone is routed, but I'm not 100% sure its the right way to go. There is the option to end the battle already, tab out.
Another alternative is to make rally checks more frequent (20-30 seconds?), so that routed troops will not stand in the corner for a while, and instead be tempted to move back into the fray, but if their cohesion is still low, they will still be routed (rout checks are more frequent, 5 sec). I like that idea, I'll test it out.
 
Chel said:
pentagathus said:
Ok thanks.
Edit: What the hells happened to the sounds? Most of them are there but I can no longer hear hoof beats or the sound of my axe swinging. I wana hear swinging :grin:

did you load a previous save game? I added some new sounds, you have to start a new game.
No I made a new game :cry:
 
Chel - I checked through the thread and while I love this idea, I had a question... Cohesion seems to be described differently in different posts.  Some describe it as a pure average of health percentage, but the first post doesn't.

10 people x 100% health = 100% (each person's health is worth 10% of the cohesion)
10 - 2 people (dead) = 80%
10 - 2 (dead) - 4 people @ 50% health (wounded) = 4 x 100% (40) + 4 x 50% (20) = 60% total average

... not 40%.  Am I missing something?

Edit 1: (Also, I meant to give my feedback that the bravery bonus should definitely be at .5 per kill.  After all, it isn't the only thing helping morale, so a few points can make all the difference, and any but a hands-off general (difficult to play in EGII) is going to kill more than his/her proportional share.)

Edit 2: Testing seems fine.  I would like it if there was a way to finish the battle with the enemy routed, without the penalties of a retreat... though I suppose if you routed any significant enemy, the normal penalties wouldn't be there anyway due to casualties inflicted...  How complicated would it be to allow a "normal" exit with enemy troops still on screen?
 
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