Battle Joy perk is broken and needs to be removed.

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DeathBG

Sergeant at Arms
What's up gamers!
This topic is mainly addressing the skirmish community and how the Battle Joy perk is impacting and turning competitive Skirmish matchmaking into a two-hander spam fest.
The perk is giving the following benefits:
Mecy540.png


The classes that have the perk are:
Voulgier shock infantry on Vlandia
Savage shock infantry on Battania

I have played a couple of training matches vs other clans that have the same skill level and it's one-sided due to how broken that perk is and after patch 1.6.1 all I can say is that this perk is breaking the game(Mainly on Vlandia). The voulgier can get improved armor+ battle joy and get 90 swing speed voulge that hits for 127 damage. That means if you have 20 armor or less you can die in 1 hit from it. It's spammable and people figure out that it's broken and begin to abuse it.
I am not crying about the new perk system but passive perks that give swing speed as reward are really breaking the game and shouldn't exist. I am pretty sure in the beta when RM vs DM had a match TW staff saw how broken the 2h on Vlandia was but decided to let it be.
I am curious to see what other skirmish players think and I hope to get some responds from the staff on whether they plan to take some action to balance that perk.
 
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the whole perk system affecting underlying core combat mechanics is really bad,

this is the worst thing that has happened to bannerlord since the class system,

i doubt they will listen/change anything though,

sorry to say it but i think we just need to wait for custom servers and hope we can change these new features

i feel your pain man, it sucks

the great thing about the mount and blade series was that you could always pick up weapons from the battlefield and be just as competitive with an opponent given you have the same weapon/equipment,

with this perk system people will be able to outperform you, not due to personal skill, bc of a perk that allows them to swing faster and do more damage,

that isn't right,

this has been a complaint i have had with other weapons(bows)/mounts on the battlefield as well were your class allowed you to ride faster with a mount (as cav) or shoot better with a bow (as archer)

hopefully this example with the perk system, where an infantryman can swing faster or do more damage with melee weapons, shows why all combat should be equal (bow accuracy, mount speed, and melee swing speed/damage) and the only thing that should differentiate people is their individual skill
 

Aliaksandr

Regular
the whole perk system affecting underlying core combat mechanics is really bad,

this is the worst thing that has happened to bannerlord since the class system,

i doubt they will listen/change anything though,

sorry to say it but i think we just need to wait for custom servers and hope we can change these new features

i feel your pain man, it sucks

the great thing about the mount and blade series was that you could always pick up weapons from the battlefield and be just as competitive with an opponent given you have the same weapon/equipment,

with this perk system people will be able to outperform you, not due to personal skill, bc of a perk that allows them to swing faster and do more damage,

that isn't right,

this has been a complaint i have had with other weapons(bows)/mounts on the battlefield as well were your class allowed you to ride faster with a mount (as cav) or shoot better with a bow (as archer)

hopefully this example with the perk system, where an infantryman can swing faster or do more damage with melee weapons, shows why all combat should be equal (bow accuracy, mount speed, and melee swing speed/damage) and the only thing that should differentiate people is their individual skill
Here! This is what I am trying to convey to the developers in my posts regarding the changes in patch 1.6.1.
But instead of a constructive discussion or at least a signal to take my comments into consideration, I receive a warning from them (@Erminas) for SPAM!🤪 because i publicated my comments in several similar forum threads, which for some reason they do not consider spam🤓.
Yeah, unexpected feedback style:sneaky:.
PS: I do not know what requirements Mr. @Callum makes to the forum moderators, but it would not hurt him to introduce them to the definition of spam, and at the same time to understand what rationality, loyalty and courtesy to his clients are. Well @TaleWorlds it was insulting🥺. Continue to reject your fans in the same manner and the sad result will not be long in coming ...unfortunately😞.
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
the whole perk system affecting underlying core combat mechanics is really bad,

this is the worst thing that has happened to bannerlord since the class system,

i doubt they will listen/change anything though,

sorry to say it but i think we just need to wait for custom servers and hope we can change these new features

i feel your pain man, it sucks

the great thing about the mount and blade series was that you could always pick up weapons from the battlefield and be just as competitive with an opponent given you have the same weapon/equipment,

with this perk system people will be able to outperform you, not due to personal skill, bc of a perk that allows them to swing faster and do more damage,

that isn't right,

this has been a complaint i have had with other weapons(bows)/mounts on the battlefield as well were your class allowed you to ride faster with a mount (as cav) or shoot better with a bow (as archer)

hopefully this example with the perk system, where an infantryman can swing faster or do more damage with melee weapons, shows why all combat should be equal (bow accuracy, mount speed, and melee swing speed/damage) and the only thing that should differentiate people is their individual skill
Just... FYI. Warband had this. Melee classes hit harder, Archer classes shot more accurately and cavalry could ride higher tier horses etc.

Not sure if that changes your opinion - just something to bare in mind.

Having said that I agree this particular perk is very overturned.
 

Ikea Knight

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Just... FYI. Warband had this. Melee classes hit harder, Archer classes shot more accurately and cavalry could ride higher tier horses etc.

Not sure if that changes your opinion - just something to bare in mind.

Having said that I agree this particular perk is very overturned.

Yeah but all infantry units hit harder
All archers shot more accurately
All cavalry units could ride higher tier horses

The issue with the perks is not that they exist but that there are so many which you can't visually distinguish. Two same looking units could have vastly different passive perks that could really affect the gameplay. It just makes the gameplay more random.

Passive perks overall should be revisited. They need to have indicators and they need to be balanced.
 

Silvernj

Grandmaster Knight
The issue with the perks is not that they exist but that there are so many which you can't visually distinguish. Two same looking units could have vastly different passive perks that could really affect the gameplay. It just makes the gameplay more random.
How is this related to the problem in op? Battle joy on vlandia is a meta so u basically know what your opponent is going to pick. Just the fact that 2h break heavy inf shields with 4 swings and then destroy u with 2 hits with spam is just stupid
 
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Ikea Knight

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
How is this related to the problem in op? Battle joy on vlandia is a meta so u basically know what your opponent is going to pick. Just the fact that 2h break heavy inf shields with 4 swings and then destroy with 2 hits while voulges just spam you using this perk is stupid.
True. I guess I was just trying to say how stupid passive perks overall are. Or rather how they were implemented.
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Yeah but all infantry units hit harder
All archers shot more accurately
All cavalry units could ride higher tier horses

The issue with the perks is not that they exist but that there are so many which you can't visually distinguish. Two same looking units could have vastly different passive perks that could really affect the gameplay. It just makes the gameplay more random.

Passive perks overall should be revisited. They need to have indicators and they need to be balanced.
Ah - but they hit different amounts harder.
They shot different amounts more accurately.
Some cavalry had better riding stats then others.

Here's a few other interesting inconsistencies;

Sarranid archers had tonnes of health but no melee damage.
Crossbowmen can't use bows and bowmen can't use crossbows effectively.
Nord huscarls had the best melee stats in the game.
Nord scouts were just terrible in every way.
Rhodok Sergeants were terrible with thrown weapons.
Khergit infantry had melee stats closer to archers then warrior classes. (But are also weirdly one of the better Crossbow classes).

The only thing that is consistent about warbands class stats is how inconsistent they are sometimes.
 
I thought the game perk system and classes were kinda bad before the update but holy damn if they proved me wrong, they made it worse than it was, I would have never guess they would take this approach to fix some of the problems... meanwhile they created several more
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
It's a bit early to say if it's broken, but it is very strong and we need to think if that's what we want the game to be (people running around spamming 3 life 2h prioritising damage over survival). This is the logical endpoint of a game mode with respawns.

Increasing the cost of 2h, decreasing their speed, decreasing the weight of shields are all options. Stopping Menavlion being a side-swing weapon is also basically necessary.
 

DeathBG

Sergeant at Arms
It's a bit early to say if it's broken, but it is very strong and we need to think if that's what we want the game to be (people running around spamming 3 life 2h prioritising damage over survival). This is the logical endpoint of a game mode with respawns.

Increasing the cost of 2h, decreasing their speed, decreasing the weight of shields are all options. Stopping Menavlion being a side-swing weapon is also basically necessary.
It is broken because you can't counter it exactly due to how fast the unit is. You move around really quick and don't give the enemy archer time to shoot. But still I don't think speed is the main issue for me swing speed is the biggest issue as it's giving an enormous advantage when fighting other factions.
 

Ruthven

Baron
WBM&BVC
If only there was some other way to make it so some classes had access to faster weapons, or some kind of item or device that would both reduce damage and also be visually recognizable. Sadly I cannot imagine any such system, oh well.
 

Zarthas

Knight
If only there was some other way to make it so some classes had access to faster weapons, or some kind of item or device that would both reduce damage and also be visually recognizable. Sadly I cannot imagine any such system, oh well.
this is really what I don't understand lol. Its solving a problem that doesn't exist. Just a completely unnecessary use of development time.
 

KSHMR

Sergeant at Arms
@AVRC To summarize people's opinion about the perks: they should be easier to visually distinguish from one another. Also, some perks are just too OP at the moment..I hope you're looking into this
 

Namakan

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Ah - but they hit different amounts harder.
They shot different amounts more accurately.
Some cavalry had better riding stats then others.

Here's a few other interesting inconsistencies;

Sarranid archers had tonnes of health but no melee damage.
Crossbowmen can't use bows and bowmen can't use crossbows effectively.
Nord huscarls had the best melee stats in the game.
Nord scouts were just terrible in every way.
Rhodok Sergeants were terrible with thrown weapons.
Khergit infantry had melee stats closer to archers then warrior classes. (But are also weirdly one of the better Crossbow classes).

The only thing that is consistent about warbands class stats is how inconsistent they are sometimes.
the same warband class always acts the same way with the same weapon. this can not be said for bannerlord. I don't like that.
 

DeathBG

Sergeant at Arms
To be honest guys all that TaleWorlds had to do is increase the lenght of the one-handed axe on the Vlandian Sergeant to the same lenght as the imperial axe on the Empire legionary and all the balance problems are complete with the faction and I said it in the past that this vlandian axe is too short and nobody uses it and nobody even decided to fix the axe so we would have a competitive spam weapon that's not as OP as the Voulge.
 

flashn00b

Veteran
At this point, i think it's pretty clear that certain things are supposed to be overpowered while other things are supposed to suck harder than Postal 3. TaleWorlds has no interest in balancing an asymmetrical multiplayer game but rather the exact opposite.
 

Ikea Knight

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
tbh
I am not all aposed passive perks.
Some of the money perks for example can be interesting when they are high risk and high reward.
But overall I am not happy with how they were implemented.
If you add 3 new perks to add variety in gameplay but one of them is so good that you just need to have it that's just bad gamedesign.
Also as I said before perks are indistinguishable which is my personal biggest gripe with the last patch.
 
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