Battle at the Thermopylae

[Phalanx300]

So what changed to make them go form a estimated 250.000 to 30.000 Persians? How about Plataea after that, also 30.000?

 

[dinnerdog2zero]

I don't know where djogloc02 got 30 000 from. I think the most accurate estimate is around 70 000.

 

[Roach XI the Magnificent]

No matter what the total strength of the Persian army in Greece was, only 3 divisions (Medes, Persians and the Royal Guard) engaged at Thermopylae, which makes for 20-30 thousand men. Against around 5000 Greeks, in a very strong defensive position.

At Plataea, modern estimates range from 40 to 120 thousand, with varying reasoning behind them.

 

[Antonis]

Dat christmasified avatar.Heh!

 

[dion1195]

Am I seriouslt the only one that never heared the number 300.000 before..... with this battle.

I have heared thing ranging from 40.000 to 150.000,
never seen 300.000 tho....
and I never knew there were 7000 greeks either, I though less.

(No not basing anything on 300.....)

I though 4000-6000

 

[Roach XI the Magnificent]

Dat christmasified avatar.Heh!

It's not Christmasified. Well, it used to be, but when I forgot to take the hat off 3 years ago (on a different forum), so I just stuck with it.

 

[Antonis]

Nevermind, it's a good avatar.

 

[xenoargh]

You mean the scout who was unarmed, one-legged and 50 years old?

Yeah that's the one, old fart had almost managed to break through their lines before they stopped him. I also heard he was blind.

And had a serious case of Parkinson's, but he successfully implemented it in his fighting techniques.

And now try to picture this elder, disabled Persian fighting off valiantly Spartans, right out of Frank Miller's 300. That made my day officially! 

Well, here's what it looked like:

 

[Antonis]

I admit I haven't read the comic or seen the movie, but is this scene in either one of them? Or a f***ed up hoplite photoshopped in another pitcure?

 

[SupaNinjaMan]

That would be Master Splinter the old, crippled persian laying the beat down on a Spartan.

 

[Antonis]

That would be Master Splinter the old, crippled persian laying the beat down on a Spartan.

Oh, okay, I google it. It turns out I am not a TMNT fan either.

 

[xenoargh]

@SupaNinjaMan:  Aw, you were supposed to tell him that ancient Persians really looked like that

 

[SupaNinjaMan]

I thought it was common knowledge that the Persians, up until a few generations ago, were actually rat-people.

 

[TheLoneWolf1]

I really do not know where many people on this topic get information from (I don't count Wikipedia a reliable source). Based on true historic information which are widely varied the battle of Thermopylae was a responce from Xerxes (current at the time king of Persians since his father Darius has died on the meanwhile from the first invasion against the Greek city-states) for the defeat of the Persian army in the battle of Marathon  in 490 BC. The forces that Xerxes gathered had the purpose of occupying the whole of Greece and Athens and contained both a fleet and foot soldiers. By 484 BC Xerxes began to march and when he reached Hellespont he made a bridge of ships to cover the gap and let his troops pass. The talk about 30.000 Persians therefore is rubbish if you have read a few historical sources about the invasion. On the other hand the estimated number of the ancient greek historician Herodotus of 5.283.220 Persians is considered innacurate by most modern historicians but serious studied have led to numbers varrying from 150.000 to 1.700.000 men. Again this number describes the whole Pesian force that was gathered for the full invasion (both fleet and foot soldies) from which a large if not the whole, part has participated in the battle. On the greek side, a force of  7000 men lead by King Leonidas and his 300 Spartans, was sent to hold the Persian force so that the Greek city-states could prepare for a larger battle. The gap of Thermopylae at the time was 12-14 meters wide. By the time the Persians were informed about the existence of the mountain passage a 1000-1200 Greeks remained to furthermore hold the Persians so that an amount of around 3000 soldiers could leave to participate in another more important battle. The battle was planned to last some hours but lasted three days. I could add much more details but my post is already big and maybe tiring.

EDIT. Of course I do not personally believe that the Persians had 1.700.000 men but history isn't about personal estimations and opinions but recorded historic facts.

 

[dinnerdog2zero]

150.000 to 1.700.000 men.

Utter bull**** again.

 

[Patchouli Knowledge]

Can you actually prove those estimates are off, though? can anyone prove anything about the battle?

I would imagine modern estimates are based on things like what kind of manpower the Persians could realistically possess, but I don't see how you can flat out reject not entirely insane estimates. There's really not a great deal to go on. Over (or anywhere near) a million are obviously pretty crazy, but lower estimates would be hard or impossible to disprove.

 

[SupaNinjaMan]

EDIT. Of course I do not personally believe that the Persians had 1.700.000 men but history isn't about personal estimations and opinions but recorded historic facts.

If it's a recorded historical fact why is it open for debate?

 

[Patchouli Knowledge]

You'd be surprised how willing some people are to debate indisputable facts.

 

[SupaNinjaMan]

You'd be surprised how willing some people are to debate indisputable facts.

Actually, when you put it that way, I completely understand. Continue.

 

[Bluehawk]

Because the recorded figures are not indisputable and not necessarily facts. Herodotus puts the Persians at over two and a half million, for example. The facts are unobtainable.