SP - Player, NPCs & Troops Battania still needs regular archers

[Keaton Kitsune]

I know I know I know, the Fians are amazing. But I think that hardly matters when it takes so long to acquire any notable force of them. Battania, the culture known for their archers only has the elite archers. I think they should put in a simple common line archer tree that maybe only uses short bows? Keep the longbows for the Fians. But I want to like Battania but they just get slaughtered because of ranged troops, in particular Vlandia. They can field so many crossbowmen that their slow speed doesn't matter as my mostly infantry Battanian army has no good counter, and they always suffer heavy losses in an advance. I noticed that I had a terribly hard time keeping my army's manpower up, while a vassal for Battania... Until I finally managed to get a pipeline of Vlandian crossbowmen. At that point my army started to swell because I had an answer to the ranged unit problem. But yes, I know I could hunt bandits and recruit them and even create a little factory that churns out Fians that way. But that isn't a fast route to having an answer to this problem. The Battanians just need simple mountain hunters as a regular conscript line.

 

[AndrewArt]

Hmm, you can recruit nobles in villages connected to castles especially... and you can also use the Leadership perk and turn forest bandits into battanian nobles. I know you know this.

Other than that, I just played as vassal for Battania and I found defeating vlandians pretty easy... Battanian infantry is pretty beast, and seeing as I played almost full party of infantry it was really easy to win battles by just rushing in with a shield wall. Of course if you're trying to have a long range warfare nothing will beat the beast crossbows.

The only reason I might agree with the fact that the wildling tree could be turned into archer units instead is because the oathsworn and wildling are such similar units atm. They both have same equipment, including the same shield. Ever since the oathsworn's shield has been changed to the exact same one as the wildling's I feel like the lack of distinction between the 2 units just makes one or the other useless to have in the game.

 

[Keaton Kitsune]

Hmm, you can recruit nobles in villages connected to castles especially... and you can also use the Leadership perk and turn forest bandits into battanian nobles. I know you know this.

Other than that, I just played as vassal for Battania and I found defeating vlandians pretty easy... Battanian infantry is pretty beast, and seeing as I played almost full party of infantry it was really easy to win battles by just rushing in with a shield wall. Of course if you're trying to have a long range warfare nothing will beat the beast crossbows.

The only reason I might agree with the fact that the wildling tree could be turned into archer units instead is because the oathsworn and wildling are such similar units atm. They both have same equipment, including the same shield. Ever since the oathsworn's shield has been changed to the exact same one as the wildling's I feel like the lack of distinction between the 2 units just makes one or the other useless to have in the game.

I've had the exact opposite problem, in that my infantry was just getting cut down before I could do anything about it. It forced me to adopt a new role though, in that I became a hunter killer on the battlefield. Light crossbow with the sheriff perk, not much could survive the head shot so I went about hunting high value targets on the field. But still, my units were just getting done in by the combined might of Vlandian shock cav and the crossbowmen.

I know to use cover and all but there have been plenty of times where the enemy won't march forward because they are on the defense and I have to move my units up under a hail of bolts. Just having a basic archer class I think would be more lore consistent and beneficial to the Battanians.

Also I wasn't around for the old Oathsworn or anything. I picked up Warband like two months ago, and jumped into Bannerlord not too long ago.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Yes. Everyone should have the basics and then something special. Maybe a good cultural bonus would be they can recruit forest bandits? They're good archers too. But really just adding a archer line would be good. It doesn't matter much to AI x AI, but in live battle Battania is a push over without enough ranged. Their Cav is good in auto calc AI battles, but like all Cav it can't do enough in live battle.

 

[AndrewArt]

I've had the exact opposite problem, in that my infantry was just getting cut down before I could do anything about it. It forced me to adopt a new role though, in that I became a hunter killer on the battlefield. Light crossbow with the sheriff perk, not much could survive the head shot so I went about hunting high value targets on the field. But still, my units were just getting done in by the combined might of Vlandian shock cav and the crossbowmen.

I know to use cover and all but there have been plenty of times where the enemy won't march forward because they are on the defense and I have to move my units up under a hail of bolts. Just having a basic archer class I think would be more lore consistent and beneficial to the Battanians.

Also I wasn't around for the old Oathsworn or anything. I picked up Warband like two months ago, and jumped into Bannerlord not too long ago.

yes crossbow is a great weapon, but to support your charging infantry it would be best if you would also be in melee with them so that you can damage the enemy while they're focusing on your units. It's way more efficient and you can take down more units than with a crossbow, which you might even miss the shots with and it's very slow to shoot. I would only use a ranged weapon if I have a considerable amount of ranged units myself, and we're going for long-distance warfare.

Oathsworns used to have a very big shield in comparison to what it has now, so the units were very strong in the shield wall. The two units were similar in equipment even before, but now they're basically the same unit (I have no idea why they changed the oathsworn like this). So I wouldn't mind seeing an archer line for battania instead like you suggest at this point, unless some other significant change to the wildling tree occurs in some other direction, which I'd be fine with as well.

 

[ArturMorhghain]

I play Battania most often. I’d be glad if Battania could just recruit militia archers. But then they’d be the only faction able to recruit from amongst the militia.

Still, the recruitment level from villages for Fians is very much improved as of 1.5.10, and let me run with about a third of my troops as Fians just recruiting from villages. Which I think is close to ideal for what I wanted my party to be.

It is hard to counter Vlandia’s crossbows in an archer duel, but not impossible. I wish there was a way for skirmishers/Wildings to play more of a role against them, but I’m not sure if this just needs more micro by myself, a yet-larger shield, or a “skirmish” command that would ease some of the micro.

Agree with others that Oathsworn and Wildings feel pretty similar right now.

 

[Apocal]

I know I know I know, the Fians are amazing. But I think that hardly matters when it takes so long to acquire any notable force of them.

It shouldn't anymore, as of 1.5.10 and 1.6. Noble troops coming out of your earholes.

 

[Keaton Kitsune]

It shouldn't anymore, as of 1.5.10 and 1.6. Noble troops coming out of your earholes.

Maybe I just had bad RNG then? It was quite awhile after being a vassal and in constant wars with Vlandia that I started being able to accrue Fians. I was even doing village quests and the like.

 

[Antaeus]

Playing as part of a Battanian faction is OP now that nobles can be recruited easily. I steamroll other armies now - often with my own party. I can line up my 100 Fians and stand there while 6 or 700 enemies die. I used to make multiple archer groups and create fields of fire. Since 1.5.10 I just line them up and wait. It's ludicrous.

There is enough supply to give every Battanian party dozens or hundreds of them. Thankfully AI parties are still favouring cavalry over noble troops or we'd be talking about Battanian snowballing.

I think it's culturally odd that their nobles would be great archers without a standard line. But even 10 Fians in a party can overwhelm 30 or 40 Imperial archers so perhaps it's fair?

I don't see any AI faction running over Battannia even without archers, and I don't see Battania conquering anyone as an AI faction right now, so I think the faction balance is good - I don't see the need to add an archer line just because.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

This has been discussed ad nauseam and there are quite a few threads and comments scattered around the forum that attest to this. I gave my opinion here in this thread where I commented this issue of not having pure archers/slingers/skirmishers in the Battanian regular troop tree.

To bring up some other threads (quick search) commenting about it:

• Will the Battanians get Commoner Archers
• battana needs a non-noble archer
• Which Faction Needs the Most Love and Work?
• etc...

Maybe it's a low priority, however I think the troop trees need a facelift / finishing touch not without a thorough overhaul of the damage/protection formula (and eventually the prices) of panoply items. In my eyes that's a priority.

 

[five bucks]

This has been discussed before. I'll say now what I've said in previous threads on the topic.

* A problem with Bannerlord is that all factions' troop trees are too similar already, and so your tactics barely change when fighting as or against different factions, since every faction can do the same thing. Giving Battania a regular archer will make them more similar to every other faction, and make that problem worse. Therefore I would really not like to see this happen.

* The only reasoning people have for regular archers is that Battania are "known for their archers", based on Pendraic (where their infantry charge recieved equal mention), and a single line from a dev blog (where their infantry charge recieved equal mention). The Empire are known for their cataphracts too, but that doesn't mean they have cataphracts in the regular troop tree. Perhaps Battania is just known for their Fians, and not regular archers.

* The historical inspiration of the Battanians were the Celts. Overall, Celts did not use bows very much, they used javelins. The one exception was the South Welsh, who had small numbers of elite longbow archers. All other Celts hardly used bows at all (the weapon was almost never used in Celtic Ireland, for example). So I think that the Battanians having a single elite archer unit but no other archers represents this well.

* Battania's culture description when starting the game doesn't mention archers at all, and says they go to battle with "great swords and great axes", but they don't have a great axe unit. I'd much prefer to see Battania get a two-handed axe unit that replaces their melee cavalry unit, as it would make them more distinct from other factions.

Therefore I think it would be a bad move for TW to give Battania a regular archer. It would make the game less interesting and varied, for a reason that makes no sense. However, if they do it, we can always personally edit xml files ourselves, so whatever.

 

[Bjorn The Dead]

Did not play 1.6.0 yet. I play Khuzait all the time so I fight Empire all the time and they don't have regular cavs so their cav number always minimal. At least, I have some minimal struggle when fighting against Aserai because they have okayish amount of cav. I did not know Battania having this kind of problem. I think all factions should have regular troops.

 

[vota dc]

This has been discussed before. I'll say now what I've said in previous threads on the topic.

* A problem with Bannerlord is that all factions' troop trees are too similar already, and so your tactics barely change when fighting as or against different factions, since every faction can do the same thing. Giving Battania a regular archer will make them more similar to every other faction, and make that problem worse. Therefore I would really not like to see this happen.

* The only reasoning people have for regular archers is that Battania are "known for their archers", based on Pendraic (where their infantry charge recieved equal mention), and a single line from a dev blog (where their infantry charge recieved equal mention). The Empire and Vlandians are known for their cataphracts and knights too, but that doesn't mean they have cataphracts in the regular troop tree. Perhaps Battania is just known for their Fians, and not regular archers.

* The historical inspiration of the Battanians were the Celts. Overall, Celts did not use bows very much, they used javelins. The one exception was the South Welsh, who had small numbers of elite longbow archers. All other Celts hardly used bows at all (the weapon was almost never used in Celtic Ireland, for example). So I think that the Battanians having a single elite archer unit but no other archers represents this well.

* Battania's culture description when starting the game doesn't mention archers at all, and says they go to battle with "great swords and great axes", but they don't have a great axe unit. I'd much prefer to see Battania get a two-handed axe unit that replaces their melee cavalry unit, as it would make them more distinct from other factions.

Therefore I think it would be a bad move for TW to give Battania a regular archer. It would make the game less interesting and varied, for a reason that makes no sense. However, if they do it, we can always personally edit xml files ourselves, so whatever.

Battania had that axeman that cut two cataphracts with a single swing in an ancient bannerlord video.
What bannerlord miss Is troops with non guaranteed equipment. A wildling has wild in name but despite this you exactly know what equipment has.

 

[Sidhwen_Khorest]

There are a few specific villages that seem to have noble recruits on a regular basis, once I found them I am having a lot easier of a time raising a significant amount of Fians in my armies. You still need to protect your deathball though. Since they are archers its luckily pretty easy to do so.

The villages I am finding them in are the ones close to the west empire and sturgia on the lowlands. Sorry don't have specific names, but its been consistently true in 3 games over 1.5.10 and 1.6

 

[Yertyl]

It is pretty ironic/insane that the faction that specializes in fighting in forest, the terrain that is worst for cavalry and thus best for archers, has two cavalry units and zero archers in their regular unit line.

 

[Ingloom]

no, fians can be easily obtained just by remembering in which villages recruits will spawn and regularly visit there. also, fians are easily made of forest bandits who can be very easily persuaded to themselves by pumping two perks. I have a whole army of these fians my friend

 

[five bucks]

It is pretty ironic/insane that the faction that specializes in fighting in forest, the terrain that is worst for cavalry and thus best for archers, has two cavalry units and zero archers in their regular unit line.

I agree Battania shouldn't have two cavalry units, but forest is just as good a terrain for infantry as it is for archers. Battania should be the game's shock infantry specialists, for multiple good reasons posted further up in the thread.

 

[Maelstrom8]

Almost a month old response, but yeah you should just look up some faction overhaul mods, and or get into xml editing so you can add exactly what you want, because realistically it'll take less time than if TW tried.

 

[ClickForFreeBeer]

This has been discussed before. I'll say now what I've said in previous threads on the topic.

* A problem with Bannerlord is that all factions' troop trees are too similar already, and so your tactics barely change when fighting as or against different factions, since every faction can do the same thing. Giving Battania a regular archer will make them more similar to every other faction, and make that problem worse. Therefore I would really not like to see this happen.

* The only reasoning people have for regular archers is that Battania are "known for their archers", based on Pendraic (where their infantry charge recieved equal mention), and a single line from a dev blog (where their infantry charge recieved equal mention). The Empire and Vlandians are known for their cataphracts and knights too, but that doesn't mean they have cataphracts in the regular troop tree. Perhaps Battania is just known for their Fians, and not regular archers.

* The historical inspiration of the Battanians were the Celts. Overall, Celts did not use bows very much, they used javelins. The one exception was the South Welsh, who had small numbers of elite longbow archers. All other Celts hardly used bows at all (the weapon was almost never used in Celtic Ireland, for example). So I think that the Battanians having a single elite archer unit but no other archers represents this well.

* Battania's culture description when starting the game doesn't mention archers at all, and says they go to battle with "great swords and great axes", but they don't have a great axe unit. I'd much prefer to see Battania get a two-handed axe unit that replaces their melee cavalry unit, as it would make them more distinct from other factions.

Therefore I think it would be a bad move for TW to give Battania a regular archer. It would make the game less interesting and varied, for a reason that makes no sense. However, if they do it, we can always personally edit xml files ourselves, so whatever.

Agree that the troop trees are all too similar, I typically have to edit the troop trees in my playthroughs to nudge them away from each other.

Battania appears based on primarily on the Welsh, Irish and Scottish celts, with some Gallic flair. The description of their on-foot ambush style of warfare, and the politic dynamic, reminds me primarily of descriptions of the Welsh circa the Norman invasions.

I'm playing a Battanian playthrough with a commoner longbowmen line and honestly it's fine as long as you balance it. I designed mine as squishy, lightly-armoured, 1 quiver, but with high athletics to run away from tougher opponents.

On the other hand, I've also edited the battanian infantry to buff their athletics, completely dedicate the wildling as an agile skirmisher unit (javs only), and the oathsworn as a solid spear-dedicated infantry, as well as give the volunteers short spears (to better represent the spearman of North wales). Changing the infantry into the fast skirmishers they're meant to be, with a decent spear line to counter cav charging the fians, and I'd be happy with the commoner Battanian tree, sans archers.

Either way, the Battanian troop tree needs some TLC to turn them into the woodland ambushers they're meant to be, rather than being carried by massed fians and AI autoresolve favouring cav units.

 

[Tryvenyal]

* A problem with Bannerlord is that all factions' troop trees are too similar already, and so your tactics barely change when fighting as or against different factions, since every faction can do the same thing. Giving Battania a regular archer will make them more similar to every other faction, and make that problem worse. Therefore I would really not like to see this happen.

And why are they simelar? Well.. Different cultures were not that different in the 8-10 century.. They had archers, infantry and cavs along with different types of skirmishers as regular troops topped with cultural elites. Their regulars should be simelar with only small variations. Mixing them should make little difference.

Their elites though should play on small small small differences to "optimice" the strategies. The regular troops should perform the same but together with their unique nobles, they should excell. Ie Fians should make battania regulars excell and vice versa. Fians should not make regular Imperials excell or excell with them.

The differens should be the regular top-unit. They should have only 1 T5 I think. That would make tactical difference.

This is hard to implement though. Too many factors. Too complicated(tm)