Bannerlord's Gameplay Has Gone Backwards In Multiple Areas From Warband

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five bucks

Knight at Arms
Hi all. If we compare Bannerlord to Warband, which was made 10 years ago, we see Taleworlds has definitely improved the visual presentation, the battle size, and added a lot of depth to some game mechanics, which is great.

However, some people call Bannerlord "shallow" and "soulless", because it is missing quite a few fun, immersive gameplay features from Warband, so it's actually gone backwards in those areas. These missing features include:

Claimants/Civil Wars.
In Warband, the player could support an AI "claimant", who claimed they were the true ruler of an existing kingdom, and could recruit you and other lords into a Civil War against that kingdom's ruler. Bannerlord has small rebellions, but only for one town, rather than the whole kingdom. Edit: This has been confirmed by Taleworlds for their long-term development plans.
Feasts.
Feasts had multiple benefits for gameplay. You could host a feast yourself to gain relation with lords, which was good for roleplaying. Feasts brought lords/ladies together in one location, making it much less annoying to try and find them when you wanted to talk; and it was more immersive to see lords do something in their lives other than fighting all the time.
There was one problem with feasts- kings could hold feasts while losing a war. This could be solved by not letting the AI declare a feast while already at war.
Kingdom Court and Minister.
In Bannerlord, if you want to find lords to join your kingdom you must chase them all around the map personally to talk to them, which is unrealistic and very frustrating for many players. In Warband, you had a "Court", where your Minister could be talked to about political matters to receive political quests or send out diplomats to other kingdoms, and where Lords would travel to if they were interested in defecting to you. (This could be balanced in Bannerlord by them only waiting there for a while, and still requiring you to make a deal first).
Reactive Unique Companions.
Warband's companions would react more often to the player's actions based on their personality, and argue with each other and ask you to take sides, which made them feel more like people. Also, unique characters like Jeremus and Rolf had the same personality, stats, appearance and backstory in every playthrough, so people got more attached to them as characters than Bannerlord's randomly generated wanderers. Keeping the random wanderer system, but also adding a handful of non-random companions with more backstory, reaction dialogue and decisions to make, would give players stronger characters to identify with.
Strategic command dialogue.
You could suggest to allied lords that they should travel to and attack/defend a location while you went somewhere else, which allowed you to strategize over AI's stupid moments and made you feel more like a ruler. Edit: A similar feature, telling vassals and clan parties to act defensively or offensively, was added in 1.5.10.
Promoting Companions into Lords.
Warband let you make your companions into Lords and Ladies, which was good for roleplaying and starting a new kingdom from scratch. Edit: This has been added to Bannerlord in 1.6.4!
Deserters.
In Warband they were roaming enemies on the map, providing more opponent variety than just looters or bandits, and being more challenging to fight due to their superior equipment. In Bannerlord they are only present in one quest.
Manhunters.
When there were too many bandits in an area, these bounty hunters would start appearing to chase them down. This helped fix excessive bandit spawns and added to the feeling of an alive world, and they also had a unique troop tree you could hire to your army.
Objective: Escape.
When you failed to sneak into an enemy town, you had to fight your way out wearing only a civilian outfit, which was exciting and made sneaking feel risky, and was much fairer than the current situation where you just instantly get thrown in jail if you fail the sneak check.
Assassins and Belligerent Drunks.
Lords who hate you would hire Bandit Traps and Assassins to attack you when you entered town. Belligerent Drunks would attack you in taverns. This made lord relations more relevant, added more immersion to the game, provided variety to combat, made town scenes more useful, and would also help make civilian outfits a more useful feature in Bannerlord.
Prison Break quests.
One of the coolest quests in the game, breaking a lord out of the center of an enemy stronghold by yourself and escaping before the guards killed you. Edit: Taleworlds has re-added this feature to Bannerlord in 1.5.9!
Political quests.
There were two political quests in Warband. Denounce Lord, where a noble would give you a quest to publicly insult a noble they dislike to reduce their influence, which required you to fight a duel and gained relation with the noble who gave the quest; and Resolve Dispute, where you could improve relations between two arguing nobles using Persuasion skills or giving gifts. These gave the player more roleplaying options, and something interesting to do during the vassal/ruler phase, which Bannerlord lacks.
In-depth Courtship.
In Bannerlord, getting married is just three quick conversations, which lacks immersion. In Warband you could learn about a potential spouse's personality and visit them repeatedly to build up relations and improve your chances of marriage, or even fight a duel to defend their honor, making the process more immersive and fun.
Collect Taxes Quest.
A lord would ask you to collect taxes in their fief. Halfway, the peasants would say they couldn't pay any more. You could choose to force them to pay the rest, which would trigger a battle. Edit: Taleworlds has re-added this feature to Bannerlord in 1.6.1!
Lord Duels.
A fun one-on-one fight with another lord from the same faction, which occurred if you insulted a lord in the Denounce Lord quest, decided to defend a lady's honor from an insult, or were insulted for being female by a sexist lord and you chose to duel them.
Skill Books.
These could be purchased and read over time to gain levels in a specific skill. This would be a good option for players to choose to spend money to get a boost in a particular skill, especially if it's a skill they don't get to use often, like Engineering.
Multi-stage sieges.
When they lost the walls, defenders of a castle/town in Warband would try to defend the streets or the lord's hall, creating an intense close-quarters battle in interesting environments. In Bannerlord, the lord's hall is not used, and troops can retreat through the streets but do not attempt to fight you there. Edit: Taleworlds has re-added keep battles to Bannerlord in 1.6.1! However, troops defending the streets are still not mentioned.

Some of these seem small on their own, but all together, they create a major improvement in variety and immersion. Without (most of) these features, or similar features to replace their benefits, Bannerlord will not be a good sequel to Warband.

Taleworlds has said it is committed to making Bannerlord to the community's expectations. Based on various threads and polls on the forum and elsewhere, a large part of the community wants Bannerlord to have all the good features of Warband. So, can we please get an official statement from Taleworlds on this?

 
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Mizza

Veteran
I think content will come later. and even when game is full release they wont be done. I dont have to be just like warband. some yes. right now crashes and stuff like that is first. its still a good game. having fun and no mods. only thing I can complain about is I cant find a spice vendor to save my soul.
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
I think content will come later. and even when game is full release they wont be done
But that's just a guess-- you don't actually know that.

TW hasn't told us their plans. Nobody has any real idea what they will work on in future. All we have is worrying silence. That's why I'm requesting they give us a real reason to believe they have a plan.
 

zMasterofPie

Recruit
WBWF&SNWVC
Hopefully Taleworlds does something about this, I knew Bannerlord had devolved from Warband, but not even have BREAD in the game?! What is this?! Along with all the other foods of course and spices.

But for real, food aside there are serious problems that Taleworlds doesn't seem intent on fixing. I dearly hope we will not have to rely on the modding community to make this game good. As you said, Taleworlds is silent about their plans, that is NOT good when their game is in early access and they rely on communication to make the game good.
 

Mizza

Veteran
Hopefully Taleworlds does something about this, I knew Bannerlord had devolved from Warband, but not even have BREAD in the game?! What is this?! Along with all the other foods of course and spices.

But for real, food aside there are serious problems that Taleworlds doesn't seem intent on fixing. I dearly hope we will not have to rely on the modding community to make this game good. As you said, Taleworlds is silent about their plans, that is NOT good when their game is in early access and they rely on communication to make the game good.
I beg to differ. go to You tube and watch "Stan Games and tutorials" he goes threw each update and remarks Made by the devs.. your so wrong.
 
Most of the features listed in this thread seem extremely simple to implement. So I would guess that the devs are more focused on game engine and performance matters than content at the momment.

Siege AI, both defensive and offensive is completely broken and that is by far, in my opinion, the priority for fixing. Second is an overhaul of the Campaign Map Siege, which is the most boring and annoying feature I ever seen in a long time in a game.
 

Mizza

Veteran
But that's just a guess-- you don't actually know that.

TW hasn't told us their plans. Nobody has any real idea what they will work on in future. All we have is worrying silence. That's why I'm requesting they give us a real reason to believe they have a plan.
No a guess. I worded that wrong is was said by a dev. go watch Stans games and tutorials. he goes threw the updates
 

HugoTheFrenchMan

Master Knight
Honestly i agree with most of the things here but **** feasts i actually ****ing hate feasts oh your marshal finally decided to call a campaign well **** you now your stuck in ahmerrad with no reinforcements coming and sultan hakims army closing in just because king graveth wanted to ****ing eat
 

Lord Irontoe

Master Knight
Great suggestions. I'm not expecting them any time soon since they seem to be so bogged down just in getting the basic game systems balanced that they can't work on anything else.

Honestly i agree with most of the things here but **** feasts i actually ****ing hate feasts oh your marshal finally decided to call a campaign well **** you now your stuck in ahmerrad with no reinforcements coming and sultan hakims army closing in just because king graveth wanted to ****ing eat
Very true, but I think most would like to see improved versions of the old Warband features.
 

HugoTheFrenchMan

Master Knight
Great suggestions. I'm not expecting them any time soon since they seem to be so bogged down just in getting the basic game systems balanced that they can't work on anything else.


Very true, but I think most would like to see improved versions of the old Warband features.
Hopefully if readded it actually adds to gameplay instead of just being the **** show it was in warband but luckily i was able to finally release my feelings so i feel better i just hope if you are enlisted into an army you cant just go for a feast since i already spent influence but in warband it was a bit annoying
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
Dedicating tournament victories has been added in a quest with 1.5.3, it's technically not a feature of courtship but it's close enough just having it in the game, so I removed it as a missing feature from the OP.
 

Dr-Shinobi

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Dedicating tournament victories has been added in a quest with 1.5.3, it's technically not a feature of courtship but it's close enough just having it in the game, so I removed it as a missing feature from the OP.
But its one step in the right direction towards the old school world of M&B of which they have in mind from the start i have no doubt i think but not implemented yet. But yeah i agree if its in a quest and not courtship then its not right i think but havnt checked it out yet to have an opinion.
Could be other surprises on the way to of which cuts of from warband instead and makes something new who kn...*no not again quite*

 
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five bucks

Knight at Arms
No a guess. I worded that wrong is was said by a dev. go watch Stans games and tutorials. he goes threw the updates
I just went through them. My word, this man is the most disgusting clickbaiter I've ever seen. His videos have MOD TOOLS RELEASED and CURRENT ROADMAP in allcaps, and neither of those things are in the actual video.

There is no information in his channel saying whether any of the list in the OP is confirmed or denied.
 
Honestly i agree with most of the things here but **** feasts i actually ****ing hate feasts oh your marshal finally decided to call a campaign well **** you now your stuck in ahmerrad with no reinforcements coming and sultan hakims army closing in just because king graveth wanted to ****ing eat

giphy.gif

I loved feasts... They're timing however... I think feasts should happen during peace time...

Or take place within an army during a campaign. The lords are already gathered together, why not have an outdoor feast during a long and boring siege? The lords can feast and schmooze while the trebuchets do their thing. Heck, why not teleport non combatant lords and ladies there to schmooze with as well? Feasting in the siege camp in and around the tents - have some bards with music and dancing, drinking and eating, hunts and quests unique to feasts... Oh the possibilities!!!

I think it's high time to make feasts awesome. We have the tools... Literally :wink:
 

HugoTheFrenchMan

Master Knight
giphy.gif

I loved feasts... They're timing however... I think feasts should happen during peace time...

Or take place within an army during a campaign. The lords are already gathered together, why not have an outdoor feast during a long and boring siege? The lords can feast and schmooze while the trebuchets do their thing. Heck, why not teleport non combatant lords and ladies there to schmooze with as well? Feasting in the siege camp in and around the tents - have some bards with music and dancing, drinking and eating, hunts and quests unique to feasts... Oh the possibilities!!!

I think it's high time to make feasts awesome. We have the tools... Literally :wink:
Hopefully they make them awesome since that annoyed me way too much and also knowing that no reinforcements were going to come and the risk of leaving the army and being caught alone or mabye escaping

Also PTSD since that happened way too many times
 

Zorion_no

Veteran
I agree with alot of the points.

My biggest issue is too be blunt the lack of communication its to erratic.
Sometimes they are really on the ball and are doing great job, then at other times there is nothing for weeks.

Dont get me wrong I know its too hard for us as ppl to see all the comments they make on every posts here.
But a weekly round up or some weekly info on "this is our current goal" - based on the roadmap etc.
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
I agree with alot of the points.

My biggest issue is too be blunt the lack of communication its to erratic.
Sometimes they are really on the ball and are doing great job, then at other times there is nothing for weeks.

Dont get me wrong I know its too hard for us as ppl to see all the comments they make on every posts here.
But a weekly round up or some weekly info on "this is our current goal" - based on the roadmap etc.
Yeah, I feel for them because it wouldn't be easy to communicate with everything on such a wide scale project, but considering some of this stuff is literally basic stuff that was from the first game made 10 years ago it's weird that they can't just say "yes".
 
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