no one deserves to be insulted. You can, of course, criticize my opinion but in an appropriate way. "if you like this game then you are an idiot" is not a criticism.
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Bannerlord was a grift
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I wholeheartedly disagree. Again with the poop analogy (this guy and his poop memes, maybe he's got some scat fetish or something?? @DovahkiinNA), if you like poop, it is a fair criticism to call you an idiot. Now, is Bannerlord on the same level as liking to eat poop? No, not really, they aren't in the same ball park, but the logic still stands. Those who disagree with me are welcome to disagree, but it is a fair criticism to call them stupid when you have laid the obvious and apparent facts down and they still refuse to acknowledge why exactly they are wrong. All that being said, I do realize that I have violated your HIPAA rights, and do apologize for such.
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I feel that calling someone stupid stops being a valid discussion technique once you get out of elementary school. I am also pretty sure that it goes against forum rules but hey, if you want to finally get this thread locked randomly insulting everyone posting in it is probably a good way to go about it.
It actually becomes a valid technique once again if you choose to become a politician, don’t forget that part.
See, here’s the thing. When you don’t have anything to argue against, it’s difficult to argue. So, for example, someone may say “well, the earth is flat.” When you ask for proof, they come up with some gobbledegook and mellarky that makes no sense. There’s really no way to get around the fact that the person you are talking to just doesn’t know what they are talking about and, if they are convinced in their position, wont change. At some point we just have to attribute it to a mental failure, brainwashing or just a low intelligence. I’m not insulting him or the people who enjoy the game over warband per se, only that again, they don’t know what they’re talking about. Like someone who thinks the covid vaccines will magnetize you. It’s just unfortunate that there are people out there like that. And yes, I do believe preferring bannerlord to warband is roughly equivalent to the legitimacy of the flat earth arguments. They hold roughly the same weight.
We are no talking about a fact. we are talking about a subjective matter which is like it or not. You can come up with lots of facts about how terrible a game is, but if I like it then it is done for me. I agree that this game is bad, but I like it. Why ı cannot love a game if it is still a bad game? @Roy1012
I know the fact that this game is currently in really bad shape, but I like it and YOU cannot call me IDIOT for that.
I know the fact that this game is currently in really bad shape, but I like it and YOU cannot call me IDIOT for that.
NO. what you refer is a fact. on the other hand, preferring is a choice that is subjective. it is just a toy. ı can choose whatever ı want. ı can choose to play with lego or a simple stick. this is my enjoyment. (toy=game=video games = enjoy = fun) You can have fun with nearly everything.
At this point I think we are argueing for the arguements sake...
First of all, advertisement isn't the only thing which matters obviously. Word of mouth is important too. And if a game does not do so well in reviews, people who come a bit later to buy it won't do so. If Bannerlord didn't release in EA people would have had less hope of the game getting better and much more would have refunded or given the game a bad review early. This would have breaked sales significantly.
Secondly a complex game is harder to programm than a simple one. Regurgitating a tried and tested formula is easier than creating a new one.
The game will be cheaper in developement and less bug / balancing intensive if you make it simpler.
If you can make a simple game cheaper and it sells better because it is liked more by the majority. Doing so is a no-brainer.
There was an article about Victoria 2 on its steam page (before they make them look horrible) about mass production vs complicated games, and that they aren't mutually exclusive. I can't find it, but it went into good detail about why this doesn't have to be true. The key, they argued, is to put the complicated parts as extensions/non necessary parts. What I mean by that is that, the game should be simple to learn, but the nitty-gritty details can be mastered by those who understand the game well. I think a good example of this is division templates in Hearts of Iron IV. It's pretty simple to make a 7 infantry / 2 artillery unit with a recon company, and for most purposes, that'll get the job done for the standard infantry unit. However, mixing in various types of specific anti-tank, SP artillery, tank destroyers, etc. and understanding exactly the differences between soft/hard attack, org regain, morale etc. can give you that extra boost to top the other players/AI. It's that kind of thing that Taleworlds should be focusing on to keep its veterans happy, while allowing the game to be easily accessible to all.At this point I think we are argueing for the arguements sake...
First of all, advertisement isn't the only thing which matters obviously. Word of mouth is important too. And if a game does not do so well in reviews, people who come a bit later to buy it won't do so. If Bannerlord didn't release in EA people would have had less hope of the game getting better and much more would have refunded or given the game a bad review early. This would have breaked sales significantly.
Secondly a complex game is harder to programm than a simple one. Regurgitating a tried and tested formula is easier than creating a new one.
The game will be cheaper in developement and less bug / balancing intensive if you make it simpler.
If you can make a simple game cheaper and it sells better because it is liked more by the majority. Doing so is a no-brainer.
@Roy1012
It's kind of sad you think you can make this post spouting off all your bad opinions with everything that TaleWorlds has given you. They made The OG m&B and Warband two games that you doubtlessly spent thousands of hours on buying multiple accounts because you're a degenerate that gets banned from servers for hate speech. Yet you think you have any right to complain, let me guess, are you American? I don't even know you but you seem like a no life that has no love for Taleworlds and the thousands of hours they've given you.
To address you're first point on their "profit". You can do all this napkin math writing down your best guesses but all I see is that you don't have any concrete numbers taken from unbiased sources. And so what maybe they've made a few million, that doesn't mean they ought to spend that money on developing the game. Have you ever heard of the is/ought problem? your probebly haven't because you don't read philosophy LOL. Talewords is a private company and you kinda sound like a socialist with your "Durr they need to spend their profits on the game."
Everything else you right is a straw man complaining about how you dont like the game despite you being a privaleged white male living in AMERICA of all places. In the eastern bloc countries in east europe I dont ever hear them cry about "muh video games". Sure they have some other issues but all in all your main point is a logical fallacy because you don't realize your privalege.
It's kind of sad you think you can make this post spouting off all your bad opinions with everything that TaleWorlds has given you. They made The OG m&B and Warband two games that you doubtlessly spent thousands of hours on buying multiple accounts because you're a degenerate that gets banned from servers for hate speech. Yet you think you have any right to complain, let me guess, are you American? I don't even know you but you seem like a no life that has no love for Taleworlds and the thousands of hours they've given you.
To address you're first point on their "profit". You can do all this napkin math writing down your best guesses but all I see is that you don't have any concrete numbers taken from unbiased sources. And so what maybe they've made a few million, that doesn't mean they ought to spend that money on developing the game. Have you ever heard of the is/ought problem? your probebly haven't because you don't read philosophy LOL. Talewords is a private company and you kinda sound like a socialist with your "Durr they need to spend their profits on the game."
Everything else you right is a straw man complaining about how you dont like the game despite you being a privaleged white male living in AMERICA of all places. In the eastern bloc countries in east europe I dont ever hear them cry about "muh video games". Sure they have some other issues but all in all your main point is a logical fallacy because you don't realize your privalege.
Learn to spell.
Nice strawman and obfuscation and deflection. Maybe you should learn to talk like a normal human being. Cringe.
You're the one talking. Seriously kid, where did you even come from?
Cool story, bro. Flaming breaks the ToS.
Yes, you do, lol.
That may be, but it is also bog standard in gaming. Everyone has been lying (by commission or omission) about the content in their games since the nineties. I don't consider it fraud because if I did, I wouldn't be buying very many games.
You realize that list below is what TW considers the main staples of the M&B experience, right?
I completely agree with this. But making it so that the game fits both groups of playerbase isn't exactly easier / less work intensive than just fitting it to the casual one.
Programming it like that would be the ideal, if done well though. However I think that balancing such a game would be harder than normal since you need to balance it for both types of players so it doesn't get to hard for the players who don't micromanage and too easy for those who do.
I'd say you balance it for the power player, and set the "normal" difficulty to go easy on the casual player. The real "normal" difficulty (for non-casuals) is "normal+1".
Now that a war has started between fan-boys and the disenchanted, let me stupidly stick my nose in ..
To start, i have no problem what so ever for a company to organise their business for maximum profits ...if that means dragging out a profitable product to maximise profits, ok. There's huge difference between Indie developers, who do it for love and the craft, and businesses who do it for $$$$ . If i was TW, I'd be a indie developer .. but I love the art, I'm not a businessman.
The basic QUALITY of BL is miles ahead of the competition, have you seen CA Troy ?? CLUNK CLUNK when 2 units get close for melee combat. BL on the other hand is .. smooooooth and clean, yes, far less troops in the battle .but very pleasing to watch and command. I bet early BL had similar problems to Troy but they realised it wasn't good enough so .. START AGAIN! This where the time went. GREAT they weren't going to release ... poop where other companies wouldn't give a .... (locked into a tight release date). We all should thank TW for demanding quality.
As to lack of content,, yes, we all see that compared to M&B but this is a fresh start so.. it will come. BL looks a great base to add content / mods etc. TW said BL was only going to be a simple strategy game so we shouldn't expect depth. We'll need to add that with mods.
So .. Stupid Waits for this fan-boy to be attacked, Spearmen are braced .. oops ,poor choice of words, Horsemen protect the flanks, Looter skirmishers are ready to unleash nuke rocks .. another ooops
To start, i have no problem what so ever for a company to organise their business for maximum profits ...if that means dragging out a profitable product to maximise profits, ok. There's huge difference between Indie developers, who do it for love and the craft, and businesses who do it for $$$$ . If i was TW, I'd be a indie developer .. but I love the art, I'm not a businessman.
The basic QUALITY of BL is miles ahead of the competition, have you seen CA Troy ?? CLUNK CLUNK when 2 units get close for melee combat. BL on the other hand is .. smooooooth and clean, yes, far less troops in the battle .but very pleasing to watch and command. I bet early BL had similar problems to Troy but they realised it wasn't good enough so .. START AGAIN! This where the time went. GREAT they weren't going to release ... poop where other companies wouldn't give a .... (locked into a tight release date). We all should thank TW for demanding quality.
As to lack of content,, yes, we all see that compared to M&B but this is a fresh start so.. it will come. BL looks a great base to add content / mods etc. TW said BL was only going to be a simple strategy game so we shouldn't expect depth. We'll need to add that with mods.
So .. Stupid Waits for this fan-boy to be attacked, Spearmen are braced .. oops ,poor choice of words, Horsemen protect the flanks, Looter skirmishers are ready to unleash nuke rocks .. another ooops
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This has been discussed a lot: It's not about the game having problems. It's about the promises TW made vs their intentions now. If they released it not in EA at least; well then tough luck: don't like it don't buy it. But they didn't. Most people defending the game think that there will be "the one patch to change the game". There won't be such a patch. Sieges are going to be fixed eventually. At TW's pace that may take another year. But what won't happen is that they'll make the promises true that they made before EA. TW's statements on what will be implemented and what not speak this very clearly. They have a different vision from what the game will be after EA then they had before it.Now that a war has started between fan-boys and the disenchanted, let me stupidly stick my nose in ..
To start, i have no problem what so ever for a company to organise their business for maximum profits ...if that means dragging out a profitable product to maximise profits, ok. There's huge difference between Indie developers, who do it for love and the craft, and businesses who do it for $$$$ . If i was TW, I'd be a indie developer .. but I love the art, I'm not a businessman.
The basic QUALITY of BL is miles ahead of the competition, have you seen CA Troy ?? CLUNK CLUNK when 2 units get close for melee combat. BL on the other hand is .. smooooooth and clean, yes, far less troops in the battle .but very pleasing to watch and command. I bet early BL had similar problems to Troy but they realised it wasn't good enough so .. START AGAIN! This where the time went. GREAT they weren't going to release ... poop where other companies wouldn't give a .... (locked into a tight release date). We all should thank TW for demanding quality.
As to lack of content,, yes, we all see that compared to M&B but this is a fresh start so.. it will come. BL looks a great base to add content / mods etc. TW said BL was only going to be a simple strategy game so we shouldn't expect depth. We'll need to add that with mods.
So .. Stupid Waits for this fan-boy to be attacked, Spearmen are braced .. oops ,poor choice of words, Horsemen protect the flanks, Looter skirmishers are ready to unleash nuke rocks .. another ooops
The problem is; most of the playerbase aren't on the forum and don't read TW's statements so they don't know. They still think the game is subject to change which (for the most part) it isnt.
I've always believed modders will need to do final bug fixes and added depth once released.
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Well at least one modder decided to quit modding BL because s.he felt like TW was counting on them to flesh out the game...
If you ask me I don't really understand that kind of feeling, because basically modding is all about sharing... without expecting any reckognition or whatever reward...
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