Bannerlord was a grift

[Phantom425]

Do you? Every now and then, some new guys are popping up in the singleplayer section or this section of the forum without needing your defence of "don't be toxic guys, it will scare the new guys". They are giving their feedback, their experience with the game. Regulars and those toxic people here already did this and continue doing this. What did you do exactly if you want best for this game and for TW to improve. A big f nothing. All you did is "take it easy guys, TW will deliver what you want eventually". What you are doing is a clown act either consciously or unconsciously.

Yeah, my point was literally take it easy in the modding thread and wait for the patch. Following the patch, after everyone thought that nothing would be done, progress was made. From the modders who I've seen comment on the patch and one that I asked personally, the changes are positive.

I also have no delusions of being some sort of righteous crusader battling for the future of TW. Most likely what I do here will have no effect on the outcome of TW and BL. The critiques have been made, and they are still being made, which is good. People who are more prominent in the community are making them, and I am glad for that. In terms of what I can do, well, I want to attack the weaker points, such as BL being a grift and try to stop people from acting like this is the worst thing to ever happen. People who freak out and bash devs and call the game trash and a grift aren't going to get anything done either, only making this forum look worse.

Because your actions as explained above clearly indicates this.

They don't, they really don't. Disagreeing with you on multiple points does not mean I do not understand your headspace.

You're not balanced in your views. You're clearly biased towards defending the game, the company, and their practices, and biased against seemingly all forms of criticism. I have not seen much criticism from you at all. Just apologetics, which is strange. Calling this game a grift not in the literal sense, but in the allegorical and symbolic sense, is not far out there. The game was deceptively marketed and promises were made and not kept.

I'm biased towards attacking the weakest points brought against TW and BL. I've never gone "Hey guys, the game is great, you all just can't understand how great it is". If me trying to give you pushback on your points means that I am a shill for TW, then you're in a cult that can't fathom someone not totally going with every point that you make.

Also, I still disagree with this game being a grift. It would be a grift if they released the EA and then did nothing else with it for eight years, however they have continued to work on the game. They haven't even silenced the backlash on the forums which, while small, does mean that they have people who are listening to it. And, as shown earlier in the thread, the dev team isn't as large as people earlier though, meaning that development will be slower. Is it slower because of a console port? Yeah. Should they postpone the console port? Yeah. However, management currently isn't doing that, so the game's development time will be slower.

The game is in its final stages, this is it. Sure, the game can be very fun, and it isn't "terrible" in the grand scheme of things, but compared to the previous games and considering the tools, manpower, and budget compared to before, this is one sorry prequel. The game is incredibly frustrating in many other ways, and it's a massive, slugging grind fest, in a lot of ways worse than the previous games. This is not what the game was hyped up to be. Sieges not being fixed for this long isn't embarrassing to you? It's hard to take you seriously when you don't find this ridiculous..

Yeah, in terms of being a proper sequel, this game does fall flat in many aspects. From features such as feasts and sieges, the game is worse off then WB in those aspects, I've never denied that. And yeah, it is a grind fest, which is something that does annoy me as I don't always have the time to grind out everything that I need in order to really succeed. However, I don't think that this is embarrassing. They are still working on the game, and haven't stopped. Embarrassing would be giving up and saying "**** it, this is what you get assholes", but no, development is still going. Yeah, it isn't in a good state right now, but, again, the game is in EA, it makes sense that it is in this state. If the game had been released fully and was in this state still then yes, that would be an embarrassment.

I have never labeled anyone "newfag" or the like.

Thanks, I was being oppressed a bit by the Man.
I'm afraid there's a never-ending supply of "it's early access, stop complaining" new***s and nothing would change that except the cold, hard reality of a release.

Also, the reason why you probably hear such statements as "you don't understand our pain", is because you don't come across as very sympathetic or understanding of the other side's frustration and feeling of betrayal. It just doesn't seem like you do understand. If you've followed this game's development over those many years closely, this is a total letdown. And it's not a letdown that's been improving significantly, or seemingly will.

I've always said that I understand your outrage, however I disagree with a lot that has been said. Just because I disagree doesn't mean that I don't understand, and I shouldn't have to agree in order to understand. And yeah, in its current state, it is a letdown to the major fans of the series. However, I do think that it will begin to start to improve with time.

Overall, I am quite frankly annoyed with the whole "You're a shill" argument. I disagree with a lot of you, but I don't disagree with how annoyed you are. While I do think calming down would be nice, I do get why people aren't calm in the first place. I don't want TW to just sit idly by and do nothing, I want them to continue to work on their game until it is a proper sequel. Also, if I'm being quite frank, a few people on this forum are just immature. I attacked the points made in this thread and now it has just devolved into attacks on character instead of attacks on the actual points being made. Not once did I insult the intelligence of those arguing, of course if I did I apologize, however, that has just boiled down to me just not being a real fan. If there is nothing more to say on the topic of this game being a grift, which some of us will just forever disagree on, then I see no real purpose in continuing this, as this conversation will just endlessly go in circles with people each attacking how dedicated they are to this game.

 

[ShakenSpeare]

However, I don't think that this is embarrassing. They are still working on the game, and haven't stopped. Embarrassing would be giving up and saying "**** it, this is what you get assholes", but no, development is still going. Yeah, it isn't in a good state right now, but, again, the game is in EA, it makes sense that it is in this state. If the game had been released fully and was in this state still then yes, that would be an embarrassment.

And yeah, in its current state, it is a letdown to the major fans of the series.

"This is what you get assholes" is basically how I see it. They're still "developing" the game, but the word "developing" applies so loosely. They've fixed some bugs and made some minor tweaks. This has not been different throughout EA nor is there the slightest evidence to suggest that it is going to change in the future. They haven't been developing the game, developing the game to me would be adding content, features, and significantly expanding upon the game. This has largely not been the case. The game is really not very different from its EA release, nor will it be in the future. That's what frustrates me. What you describe as what would be embarrassing, is already the case for me, and for the other grinches, I reckon. The current state does not really seem to be poised to change in any meaningful way, so by your given definition, the game is a letdown to me, and by my informed expectations will not change.

Also, if I'm being quite frank, a few people on this forum are just immature.

You're not wrong on this.

 

[Bjorn The Dead]

They don't, they really don't. Disagreeing with you on multiple points does not mean I do not understand your headspace.

This is not what I said. You are using all of your time in this forum to defend TW rather than critiquing what is good about the game or what is bad about the game. You know BL a product you paid. But no, rather than giving feed back about it, you using all of your time to defend it.Your actions speaks for you, not your fancy words. You did literally nothing to understand me or any of the people here.

 

[Phantom425]

You're not wrong on this.

Ahaha, I see what you did there.

"This is what you get assholes" is basically how I see it. They're still "developing" the game, but the word "developing" applies so loosely. They've fixed some bugs and made some minor tweaks. This has not been different throughout EA nor is there the slightest evidence to suggest that it is going to change in the future. They haven't been developing the game, developing the game to me would be adding content, features, and significantly expanding upon the game. This has largely not been the case. The game is really not very different from its EA release, nor will it be in the future. That's what frustrates me. What you describe as what would be embarrassing, is already the case for me, and for the other grinches, I reckon. The current state does not really seem to be poised to change in any meaningful way, so by your given definition, the game is a letdown to me, and by my informed expectations will not change.

Yeah, they are currently working on features to add to the game. The battle terrain system being the biggest system they are currently working on, but with the elephants leak they are going to be expanding on the game in other ways. I also heard that they will be adding the ability to turn your companions in vassals, which has been asked. The extra content is coming, the game just has to have a stable base first to build upon. If the game stayed in this state for the next year and a half, yeah, I'd probably start to get frustrated, but I don't see that as happening. Stuff is going to be added to the game.

Also, your opinion of the game being a let down is valid. For me, it isn't, but for you and many others it is. That's just because our own opinions on games tend to be subjective.

This is not what I said. You are using all of your time in this forum to defend TW rather than critiquing what is good about the game or what is bad about the game. You know BL a product you paid. But no, rather than giving feed back about it, you using all of your time to defend it.Your actions speaks for you, not your fancy words. You did literally nothing to understand me or any of the people here.

Once again, there is a reason why I don't tend to post on serious threads detailing what is wrong about the game. Everything that I could say has already said before and by multiple people, my voice won't help in getting the point across. And, if you want the forums to be an echo-chamber, just say so. People giving pushback isn't nothing, it makes sure that your ideas hold up. When I believe that I am proven wrong, I will admit it, I'm not just a brick wall.

 

[Bjorn The Dead]

my voice won't help in getting the point across.

And yet, people are trying to do something about it for 2 years and there are things added in the game because of them. So there are things can be done with every each of one additional guy to voice their opinions about the game itself. Their voice turn into something concrete. What way do you expect your voice here help the game itself? It will be nothing.

 

[Phantom425]

And yet, people are trying to do something about it for 2 years and there are things added in the game because of them. So there are things can be done with every each of one additional guy to voice their opinions about the game itself. Their voice turn into something concrete. What way do you expect your voice here help the game itself? It will be nothing.

You cherry picked that one quote, where I said that everything that I could have said has been said before by more people. The way that I expect to help here is to give pushback on the arguments that are the weakest, so that the strongest ones keep being made. Arguing about whether or not BL is a grift isn't really going to get anything done, making a list of points that should be made and working on that.

Also, is progress being made or is it not. If progress is being made and changes are happening because of what the community is saying, like I've seen happen, then why is there an uproar about nothing being done when we can see that stuff is being done, however slow. My intention with posting here isn't to dissuade those who are actually making points to make the game better, it is to dissuade those who are making bad points. That has always been what I have done.

So, I'll ask you. By consistently arguing on how successful BL could have been and by calling the game a grift, how do you plan on helping? What suggestions put forward in this thread have I been against? What actual critique have I shot down as being nothing more then the ravings of a disgruntled fan?

 

[Bjorn The Dead]

By consistently arguing on how successful BL could have been and by calling the game a grift, how do you plan on helping?

First, I did not call the game a grift. Second, I don't see Bannerlord numbers as success while 6500 players still playing Warband.

How do I plan on helping? I have been here for 4 years consistently giving feedback about the game. After release, I have been giving feedback about the game mechanics. They are not well established feedbacks like well known forum people here but I have been doing that and continue to do so. So I am not just active here about debating how successful the game could have been. But you on the other hand?

You cherry picked that one quote, where I said that everything that I could have said has been said before by more people.

And that is why I said:

So there are things can be done with every each of one additional guy to voice their opinions about the game itself.

 

[Roy1012]

Roy, stop REEEEEEEEEEEEEEING bud.

Ok so once I point out how you are an illiterate clown you just say stop reeeing nice argument ?

 

[EasternEmpire2021]

I completely agree with you, I've been figuring the same here for the last few months. No leadership, not communication of overall design goals and timeline of releases with features, etc. Early access this is not. Early access implies the developer communicates and respects the community, the feedback it receives, etc. Early access is not intended for the developer to completely rewrite the code because the initial release was in such poor state. Early access is polishing the game and stomping the final bugs while flushing out the features. Not what we've been seeing here. Seiges anyone? I bet if we checked out what the owners were spending on personal items over the past two years the answer to where are the features would be crystal clear. These guys have no integrity. I feel bad for the actual developers and I do not want my anger be directed at them; they are the heroes and worker bees. This is directed right at leadership. A **** company that stumbled on something good but will end up screwing it all up. I've logged somewhere in the neighborhood of 1500 hours on this game but I haven't played in weeks and the joke of a patch that was 1.6.0 only confirms everything you have pointed out. I'll keep an eye on this game to see where it ends up but I'm not buying another taleworlds game. Fool me once...

 

[Phantom425]

How do I plan on helping? I have been here for 4 years consistently giving feedback about the game. After release, I have been giving feedback about the game mechanics. They are not well established feedbacks like well known forum people here but I have been doing that and continue to do so. So I am not just active here about debating how successful the game could have been. But you on the other hand?

Yeah, that's good. That I support, that I'm totally fine with and I want to see more of. That's why I don't argue for TW in those threads, because that's where stuff gets done. I post in here because a claim is made and I see that claim as being entirely false, so I go against it. Stopping bad arguments from taking hold and being spread around. When I come across a bug that is bad, I'll report it, when I feel as if I have an issue with the game that needs looking at specifically, I'll start that thread. However, I have not yet been in that situation.

 

[Lord Grindelvald]

And yet, people are trying to do something about it for 2 years and there are things added in the game because of them. So there are things can be done with every each of one additional guy to voice their opinions about the game itself. Their voice turn into something concrete. What way do you expect your voice here help the game itself? It will be nothing.

Interesting! I've had this discussion in a different thread a while back, never came to a resolution though.

The whole bitter, resentful tone in these threads might look or come across as pointless at first glance, but it serves a purpose and has proven, time and time again, to work.

Complaining leads to movement. Movement leads to improvement.

If people never complained, where would we be?

 

[VicbossOG]

????????? "NOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST NOT RELEASE YOUR EARLY ACCESS GAME ON THE DAY YOU PROMISED EVEN THOUGH AAA TITLES PUSH BACK THEIR RELEASE DATES ALL THE TIME NOOOOO"
- The people in this thread (ESPECIALLY ROY)

 

[Lord Grindelvald]

????????? "NOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST NOT RELEASE YOUR EARLY ACCESS GAME ON THE DAY YOU PROMISED EVEN THOUGH AAA TITLES PUSH BACK THEIR RELEASE DATES ALL THE TIME NOOOOO"
- The people in this thread (ESPECIALLY ROY)

Thank you for your contribution!

 

[Phantom425]

????????? "NOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST NOT RELEASE YOUR EARLY ACCESS GAME ON THE DAY YOU PROMISED EVEN THOUGH AAA TITLES PUSH BACK THEIR RELEASE DATES ALL THE TIME NOOOOO"
- The people in this thread (ESPECIALLY ROY)

Calm down a little. Don't think that's helping anyone.

Interesting! I've had this discussion in a different thread a while back, never came to a resolution though.

The whole bitter, resentful tone in these threads might look or come across as pointless at first glance, but it serves a purpose and has proven, time and time again, to work.

Complaining leads to movement. Movement leads to improvement.

If people never complained, where would we be?

And yeah, I don't disagree with that whatsoever. Without complaining, the recent modding changes in 1.6.0 would never have happened. Complaining is important when making a game, as it shows what people like and don't.

 

[VicbossOG]

Lol if you think anything productive coming out of these conversations (other than the potential fiery death of this abominable thread) is going to happen I've got a bridge to sell you too!

????????? "NOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST NOT RELEASE YOUR EARLY ACCESS GAME ON THE DAY YOU PROMISED EVEN THOUGH AAA TITLES PUSH BACK THEIR RELEASE DATES ALL THE TIME NOOOOO"
- The people in this thread

Stop whining children. Go play something else and wait for your turns like big boys ok?

 

[Lord Grindelvald]

And yeah, I don't disagree with that whatsoever. Without complaining, the recent modding changes in 1.6.0 would never have happened. Complaining is important when making a game, as it shows what people like and don't.

Sorry about that, I've made the wrong assumption by just skimming your posts, but after thoroughly reading them I think we see eye to eye on most matters.

 

[Maelstrom8]

Calm down a little. Don't think that's helping anyone.

I don't know, guy. All the drabble in the last 10 pages of this thread.. I don't think that's doing much of a better job.

 

[ShakenSpeare]

Lol if you think anything productive coming out of these conversations (other than the potential fiery death of this abominable thread) is going to happen I've got a bridge to sell you too!

????????? "NOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST NOT RELEASE YOUR EARLY ACCESS GAME ON THE DAY YOU PROMISED EVEN THOUGH AAA TITLES PUSH BACK THEIR RELEASE DATES ALL THE TIME NOOOOO"
- The people in this thread

Stop whining children. Go play something else and wait for your turns like big boys ok?

I swear fools like you always show up yet there are those that insist that the ones with criticism are the only toxic ones around here. Often they are dummies like you.

 

[Lord Grindelvald]

I swear fools like you always show up yet there are those that insist that the ones with criticism are the only toxic ones around here. Often they are dummies like you.

Just dont feed him, he’ll wear himself out, get bored and bug someone else.

 

[mrtats]

When I see people praising the Bannerlord Online Mod for all the wrong reasons, I just cringe. Bannerlord Online is not a co-op campaign. In fact, most of the campaign behaviours are removed from it for it to work and that is what I can tell from all the obfuscated code that it has. A playable co-op campaign would with all the features of a single-player campaign indeed be hard to develop as the devs claim.