Bannerlord was a grift

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Ser Jon

Squire
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
That's you and your own circle's enjoyment of the game, that doesn't really mean that was everyone's experience. I had a different experience from the game, that doesn't mean that you're wrong or that I'm wrong. Basing whether or not BL itself is a grift on personal experience doesn't really work, because that's your feeling on the game. You can feel scammed by something that wasn't a scam if it doesn't meet your expectations.

Did I say it was everyone's experience? I didn't. I simply stated my own experience and that of my friends, and agreed with the posters' based off that. Whether you agree with it or not doesn't really matter. The argument that we can't discuss our experiences with it or the like because someone else feels differently is irrelevant in the long run. Of course someone's going to feel differently. It'd be impossible for that not to be, but see, that's the point of talking about it and sharing our experiences and our thoughts on an official forum about the game. I value my time with the game and I have my own opinions that I would like to share in hopes it better shapes the game...as do you.
 

Phantom425

Sergeant
Did I say it was everyone's experience? I didn't. I simply stated my own experience and that of my friends, and agreed with the posters' based off that. Whether you agree with it or not doesn't really matter. The argument that we can't discuss our experiences with it or the like because someone else feels differently is irrelevant in the long run. Of course someone's going to feel differently. It'd be impossible for that not to be, but see, that's the point of talking about it and sharing our experiences and our thoughts on an official forum about the game. I value my time with the game and I have my own opinions that I would like to share in hopes it better shapes the game...as do you.
That's not my argument if there is any. I'm just saying that just based on what you and your friends think doesn't make it a grift. My point was never that you can't discuss your feelings, cause you can, very clearly, rather that it doesn't mean that the game itself is a grift. I'd prefer it if people spoke their minds on the forums, it is how a game gets better, but on issues like the game being a scam it doesn't really do much.

My argument was never that you can't discuss your feelings on a game, only that your feelings don't mean the game is a scam. Anyone can dislike a game, and there are reasons to dislike BL, but that doesn't make it a scam.
 

Ser Jon

Squire
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
That's not my argument if there is any. I'm just saying that just based on what you and your friends think doesn't make it a grift. My point was never that you can't discuss your feelings, cause you can, very clearly, rather that it doesn't mean that the game itself is a grift. I'd prefer it if people spoke their minds on the forums, it is how a game gets better, but on issues like the game being a scam it doesn't really do much.

My argument was never that you can't discuss your feelings on a game, only that your feelings don't mean the game is a scam. Anyone can dislike a game, and there are reasons to dislike BL, but that doesn't make it a scam.

Well, it was not needed for you to say that whatsoever though, since it was never even implied that because I feel that way everyone else must too. It was simply to show that I know no one within my circle that thinks the game isn't a scam/not good as is. You simply assumed it did because I had shared my opinions which you find disagreeable. I'm curious though, why do you need to remind people it's just their experience if not to present it as an argument to what is being said, or to say at the very least that their experiences are less valid because there are others that don't feel that way at all? If neither is your intent, I don't see the purpose of doing so.

And you think it doesn't do much to the discussion, because you don't think it's a scam. But a pretty big portion of people whom paid for a game that had x amount of promises and haven't yet gotten a bulk of it after a year or so more in development would typically find that a scam and wish to discuss that and point out why/how it is in fact a scam. Simply saying it isn't a scam just because people dislike a game is also very hyper-reducing to all of the points and issues they brought up, by chalking it down to a "well, you just say its x because you don't like it". It also doesn't disprove it isn't a scam.
 

Phantom425

Sergeant
Well, it was not needed for you to say that whatsoever though, since it was never even implied that because I feel that way everyone else must too.
While I do kinda regret posting that, I didn't say that was the issue. Using your own experience with a game to call it a scam was what I took issue with.
I'm curious though, why do you need to remind people it's just their experience if not to present it as an argument to what is being said, or to say at the very least that their experiences are less valid because there are others that don't feel that way at all? If neither is your intent, I don't see the purpose of doing so.
I'm kinda confused. I never said that your opinions weren't valid on the game sense, but I keep seeing the argument of "People who I talk to think the game is ****, therefore the game is ****". That's why I spoke up. Hindsight being 20/20, that's not what was really happening, and it was a stupid thing for me to post that.
But a pretty big portion of people whom paid for a game that had x amount of promises and haven't yet gotten a bulk of it after a year or so more in development would typically find that a scam and wish to discuss that and point out why/how it is in fact a scam. Simply saying it isn't a scam just because people dislike a game is also very hyper-reducing to all of the points and issues they brought up, by chalking it down to a "well, you just say its x because you don't like it". It also doesn't disprove it isn't a scam.
Simply saying that it's a scam because you dislike it isn't also a great point. If I buy a game, and I don't like it and don't feel as if I got my money's worth out of it, I wouldn't call that game a scam because of that experience. I'd call it a bad game due to my experience with it. There are better arguments for and against the game being a scam.
 

Roy1012

Duke
Yes but at the same time it somehow made sense to him to give that money to TW. So I guess he does not have any experience with Warband? It's all very confusing.
Was it “glaringly obvious” that multiplayer would tank? Well, some would say yes as we heard about the changes and nearly unanimously disapproved of them, but was it “glaringly obvious” that the servers would crash nonstop, or that they would absurdly refuse to release the private server files? In what dev blog pre-release they would continue to bomb multiplayer and refuse to allow it to be fixed?
 

Ser Jon

Squire
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
While I do kinda regret posting that, I didn't say that was the issue. Using your own experience with a game to call it a scam was what I took issue with.

If not being lied to about the product we are bought and continuously being given disappointing "content patches" that largely do not meet the promises before EA launch, what else could one use to determine if it is a scam or not, since that then becomes their "personal experience"? If we cannot use the definition of "scam" to show just how easily Bannerlord matches it, what do we take? Taleworld's word that it isn't a scam? Content and uninformed new players' opinions about how it's all grand? Positive reviews? That's not how it works. That's exactly how one begins defining something. If a man bought a TV that promised 4K features and got home to find out it doesn't have that at all, what do you call that? Does the man simply "not like it"?

I'm kinda confused. I never said that your opinions weren't valid on the game sense, but I keep seeing the argument of "People who I talk to think the game is ****, therefore the game is ****". That's why I spoke up. Hindsight being 20/20, that's not what was really happening, and it was a stupid thing for me to post that.

That's right. You never did. I'm asking what your point in doing that all of the time is if not to present some sort of disagreeing argument or whatnot, because it makes absolutely no sense for you to just pop in and present an opposing belief so vigorously if its not an argument or because you at least simply do not want to see these opinions which irate you. I also, for another repeat, never said nor implied that the game is a scam simply because I and my friends had so and so experience, but this will be the last time that I repeat it.

Simply saying that it's a scam because you dislike it isn't also a great point. If I buy a game, and I don't like it and don't feel as if I got my money's worth out of it, I wouldn't call that game a scam because of that experience. I'd call it a bad game due to my experience with it. There are better arguments for and against the game being a scam.

Now you know I'm not calling it a scam simply because "I don't like it" and if you honestly believe that's the only criteria I based it being a scam off of, then I guess this all makes sense. Have you read through this thread even a little? Or any other thread calling Bannerlord a scam? No one is calling it a scam just because we don't like it. That's just what you take from their arguments.

Yes but at the same time it somehow made sense to him to give that money to TW. So I guess he does not have any experience with Warband? It's all very confusing.

Hey, don't question him, he clearly has experience with Warband, unlike us scrubs. 😤
 

Phantom425

Sergeant
Now you know I'm not calling it a scam simply because "I don't like it" and if you honestly believe that's the only criteria I based it being a scam off of, then I guess this all makes sense. Have you read through this thread even a little?
Given that I said that I know that there are better arguments for calling the game a scam, that should give you insight into that. I went after that one argument, calling it out as that one argument, and nothing more.

If that was a misunderstanding on my part then I apologize for that. But I’m well aware of the points for BL being a scam, and I disagree with them.
 

Ser Jon

Squire
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Given that I said that I know that there are better arguments for calling the game a scam, that should give you insight into that. I went after that one argument, calling it out as that one argument, and nothing more.

If that was a misunderstanding on my part then I apologize for that. But I’m well aware of the points for BL being a scam, and I disagree with them.

It wasn't given as an argument, that's what I was trying to tell you. It's all good though.
 

mujadaddy

Regular
WB
I got ten times as many hours from Warband vs Bannerlord before I felt that I had enough of Bannerlord. You cannot tell me that I got my money's worth.
Bannerlord hasn't been released yet, but okay, how much vanilla warband vs mods, which includes VC
Most people don't expect a sequel to be exactly the same as the original game and make all the same mistakes.
What 'most people' do isn't really relevant here.
Is that so?
Yeah. What made you think otherwise? Something someone "promised" you?
mediocrity
I'm absolutely against mediocrity. Just because I think calling BL a grift is some baby cryin' bull shiz doesn't mean the game is perfection.

It's all very confusing.
Please try to keep up: giving TW money is like giving a stripper money. Sometimes, you just want to see what happens next, but you don't reallllly believe all your dreams are going to come true.
 
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Bannerlord hasn't been released yet, but okay, how much vanilla warband vs mods, which includes VC
I've probably played vanilla Warband about three times the length of Bannerlord, and I'm counting modded Bannerlord, which isn't even a fair comparison. Probably everyone's time playing both Bannerlord and Warband is 70-80% modded, if not more. Not sure why we would bring mods into the equation of comparison when nobody plays vanilla Bannerlord either. Yes the mods aren't as developed for Bannerlord but I'd still way, way rather play soft-modded Warband than any force that Bannerlord mods can bring at the moment.
 

mujadaddy

Regular
WB
I'd ... rather play soft-modded Warband than any force that Bannerlord mods can bring at the moment.
There's no doubt Warband was more developed (and moddable!) than Bannerlord is right now.

But comparing Warband to BL is .... generous! BL is more like the demo of M&B. Remember how not-ready that was?!

And that's all BL is right now: a demo. I had so much fun in WB, I figured I would see what they made 10 years later!

Ok, yeah, it's 15 years later. Ok, yeah, it's... not polished.

But it's a gfx/engine upgrade to something really fun, and I didn't feel grifted, even before I had 1 second in-game.


It's nice to attend a comedy show without having to pay for a ticket.

It's nice to think you having some kind of reputation or credentials or whatnot is a substitute for addressing what I said. Reminder: "glaringly obvious" TW would never deliver 50%
 
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MadVader

Duke
M&BWB
It's nice to think you having some kind of reputation or credentials or whatnot is a substitute for addressing what I said. Reminder: "glaringly obvious" TW would never deliver 50%
Source: trust me bro, I'm an edgy troll who started posting about BL barely 3 months ago.
That's just a dumb claim. No one knew what the real state of BL was before the EA, except Taleworlds staff. The consensus at the time was that it will be mildly disappointing to those who expected many new features, but a pretty good game anyway - based on the only evidence available, the dev blogs.
What's glaringly obvious is that you are full of it.
 

mujadaddy

Regular
WB
Source: trust me bro, I'm an edgy troll who started posting about BL barely 3 months ago.
That's just a dumb claim. No one knew what the real state of BL was before the EA, except Taleworlds staff. The consensus at the time was that it will be mildly disappointing to those who expected many new features, but a pretty good game anyway - based on the only evidence available, the dev blogs.
What's glaringly obvious is that you are full of it.
Oh no, I *started posting* at some time which upsets you

Good job on convincing people you're not whining

"Boo hoo, I trusted dev blogs" pfpfpfpf
 
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