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Bannerlord was a grift
- 主题发起人 Roy1012
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Not much chance of that.
The accusation that Bannerlord is a grift is deliberately offensive and intellectually dishonest. Whatever legitimate gripes we have can't justify hurling that insult at the TW devs who are labouring on our behalf to complete the game.
we will talk about the freedom of modding again when the developers put the skins and probably a paid system on which steam players will throw themselves on them like animals, and that Taleworlds will have to reduce the freedoms of modding to make profitable all this mess
maybe there you will open your eyes
Fine by me. Let them do it. They will further lose what's left of the modders and dedicated community. Why do you even care? Did you make some kind of vows to Bannerlord? So many good games around. You don't like it play something el.... (wait what am I doing..?)
You can also start a new thread and call it "Freedom of Modding" and state your business there. I just say this tapeworm of a thread no longer serves its purpose. But unfortunately, the new one will not do much good either. TW has just recently thrown off the shackles of the "we care about your feedback" attitude and sailed on the high seas of the possibilities (the same way as other AAA game dev wannabes do).
Like, is there anyone who still trusts their game finalization time "estimates"?
Why do i even care ? Because Mount and Blade may be the only game that looks like itself, but seeing a studio like Taleworlds mess it up is insufferable for me and for a lot of people.Fine by me. Let them do it. They will further lose what's left of the modders and dedicated community. Why do you even care? Did you make some kind of vows to Bannerlord? So many good games around. You don't like it play something el.... (wait what am I doing..?)
You can also start a new thread and call it "Freedom of Modding" and state your business there. I just say this tapeworm of a thread no longer serves its purpose. But unfortunately, the new one will not do much good either. TW has just recently thrown off the shackles of the "we care about your feedback" attitude and sailed on the high seas of the possibilities (the same way as other AAA game dev wannabes do).
Like, is there anyone who still trusts their game finalization time "estimates"?
Now if you don't have much to do with mount and blade and other games can replace it so well for you why come and lecture others ?
Does it matter?
They've said, repeatedly, that they intend to continue patching and refining aspects of the game post-release, for years. There is no reason to disbelieve them on this, since they did just that for Warband, including a patch in 2016 that broke more than a few mods.
Really, didn't get the irony?
It no longer matters to me. I made my peace with how they work and deliver a product. But still find it lame and unproffesional.
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You say that like they are doing this out of the kindness of their heart and completely free, and we should be groveling at their feet for the "kindness". We paid for a product that had promises attached to it—promises which have continuously been lied about, abandoned or so entirely broken they don't work right. They owe us, not the other way around. They were paid to provide a certain product and so far, they have failed to do so, and can't even bother to properly communicate these things with us, their customers.
While I do not endorse insulting TW devs or whatnot, telling people who are calling Bannerlord in its current deceptive state a grift they are being "dishonest and offensive" or that stating the game is a grift is "insulting the TW devs directly" is absolutely ridiculous.
Some fans can be fine with the lack of progress and the broken lies all they want but the fact is, this is exactly the kind of thing that constitutes a game among those distasteful terms (gift, bait-and-switch, deceptive etc). This kind of behavior would not be tolerated from any other developer. It simply wouldn't, and yet some fans of Bannerlord are willing to bend over backwards to defend it. It's bizarre.
A bit old of a post to reply to, but that's not the only thing that since launch isn't working right or not completely implemented, either. It's both sad and hilarious.
I believe that was irony too.
Uh-huh.
Reften
Recruit
I am thoroughly enjoying the game, like the first....with massive improvements. Some of the best gaming $$$ I've ever spent. Now I admit I picked it up just about a month ago/early August, so maybe a lot of changes since then and the time of this post, but geez, you don't like a game, give it a negative review and move on. By the way, no surprise, they're in the business of making money....and you proved they made a ton of money. So, success in their book regardless of what you or anyone else, myself included, thinks. Guess what companies do with all that money? They reinvest, and make more products....which I bet you will buy. gawd, I haven't been on any type of gaming forum in a while, they haven't changed in 25yrs.This is a thread going into more detail on a post I made last month here.
I will avoid the usage of the word "scam" as that could be seen as disingenuous and possibly libelous, even though as I will outline below, the figures are roughly correct, and it isn't libel if its true. Nevertheless, I'm going to lay forth a claim that Bannerlord, at least in its current state (And, as far as we know, the past few years) was simply a grift. Here's why:
Part 1. The Financial Breakdown
There will be bold in statements which are amendments to my previous post, or things needed to be added.
The average game developer in Istanbul (similar to Ankara) makes about 60 Turkish Lira an hour, which equates to about 7.05 USD, with an average pay of 125,000 Lira per year (about 14,500 USD). There are 131 employees at Taleworlds as of 2020. Therefore, the employee pay would be roughly 1,899,500 USD, probably a little less or more based on currency exchanges. I am not sure about Turkish tax law, but assuming their payroll taxes are roughly the same as the US, lets say 10%, rounding up lets say 2,200,000 for payroll and payroll taxes per year. Overhead is somewhat difficult to calculate, but I would put their facility costs (With electricity, which is cheap in Turkey) is probably around 5,000 a month, that is just a rough estimate based on how many employees they have and how much square footage they would need. So, overhead would be roughly 60,000 USD a year. To be conservative and account for accidents/miscellaneous expenses, lets put their expenses aside from marketing at roughly 2.5 million USD.
Bannerlord has sold between 3-5 million copies, according to steamdb and steamspy. At an average price of $45 (it depends on region, some places sell for less, some like pound and euro sell for more), after Steam's 30% cut, this leaves Taleworlds with roughly $31.50 for each sale. To be conservative, let's put it down to $30. With roughly 4 million sales, Taleworlds has made roughly $120 million in revenue from Bannerlord. Bannerlord has been in development since 2012 as far as we know, lets give them 2 years pre-announcement of development, which equals 11 years. Assuming 100% of their time at Taleworlds was devoted to Bannerlord (which it wasn't, warband was still in development well during this time period), this means that 27.5 million dollars was spent in expenses, lets double that for marketing. This expense of 55 million yielded them 120,000,000, which, with much wiggle room, cushions and conservative estimates, 65 million dollars (likely more because I doubt taleworlds spent that much in marketing, and salaries are probably less than I calculated, could be as much as 100 million USD). I may have gotten some calculations wrong along the way, and I may have estimated poorly, but no matter what, that is a lot of profit for the garbage can/excuse for a game that we got.
Part 2. Gameplay Features, or lack thereof
The gameplay of this "game" is, to put it lightly, lacking. There are more than enough threads to complain about the bare-bones, hollowness of the game. I am not a singleplayer player, I like multiplayer. The lack of multiplayer support for this game is at this point astounding and legendary. The fact that modders for various projects are simply waiting on Taleworlds to just let them get their hands on it so they can improve the game for everyone's enjoyment is beyond me. It is so snail-brained and what few "Explanations" taleworlds has given are vague and meaningless. They use a lot of words to say nothing.
The recent patches to the game have improved almost nothing, and the dev diaries show us no hope. With feature after feature being cancelled or postponed, it seems like Taleworlds is just doing nothing while goading us to trust them, holding a carrot in front of our eyes. Not even heraldry can be fixed.
Part 3. Bannerlord Online
The lack of support for the Bannerlord Online mod, made by one random Russian guy in a basement, an absolutely gorgeous mod with so much ambition and potential, but most importantly what the fans wanted. The ambivalence towards it by Taleworlds shows, after years of people begging for co-op campaign somewhat proves that Taleworlds doesn't give a damn what their fans want or think. This is the most egregious example, but there are more. Gone are the days of improving upon mods like Mount and Musket, in with the days of "WE KNOW BEST **** OFF MODDERS!"
Part 4. Time
Bannerlord took forever to release and it is still in early access. You would think that a game with more time being tacked on to development would be better, not worse. But here we are, 11 years later, with nothing to show for it. What were they doing all that time? Twiddling their thumbs?
Conclusion: Bannerlord was a Grift
With all this being said, I think it is safe to include that, while perhaps Taleworlds intentions when they first developed Bannerlord wanted to make a better game, the idea of grandeur and money probably got the best of them. It's hard to exactly pinpoint when Taleworlds decided that money was more important than keeping fans happy, but I would wager around 2015-2016 was when the idea of an excellent game was thrown out the window in favor of cash. Do you agree?
Ted Striker
Veteran
Yeah a lot of changes. I started last year in the early days of the lockdown and it was a frustrating experience overall, compared to Warband. Perks not working, economy all screwed up, warfare and AI lords on the campaign map all screwed up, bandits, bandits everywhere (still), smithing stupid OP (still), loading screens for all dialogue, no choice in who to bring with you at bandit hideouts, leveling a skill got slower and slower as you raised it (learning rate decreased)...it was a different time.
Why is that the only option?
It's an early access game people want to see succeed. They may not like it overall now, but that doesn't mean they should just shrug off the time and money they invested into the game. Some of us want to see it get better, and to do that, one has to be brutally honest to get a point across.
sorry no i didn't see the irony
excuse me but I saw much more distressing things on this Forum and Steam without it being sarcasm
No worries mate. M&B is one of its kind and I am far from lecturing.. BTW. Limiting mods implementation is what's 'quite the opposite' of the M&B idea so I fully support 'freedom fighters'.
Reften
Recruit
Fair point, there is no such thing as early access, or beta though. Once a game is released, it's mostly done save for tweaks here and there.
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