Bannerlord was a grift

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Buddy, all of these issues come from the game still being in EA. No mods? The game came out a year ago. Bannerlord being incomplete? No ****, the game still has yet to be released.
I don't know how you can't understand why the game should not be in EA. It should have been released in 2012-2013. It should not be in EA after a decade and there is no excuse for it. We have told you like 50 times, why can't you understand that?
The MP is about the only actual point that makes sense.
I'm not the most experienced in SP, but there are genuine concerns with it being devoid of many important features.
Even still, it literally doesn't matter when it comes to whether or not someone likes a game.
How? If they don't enjoy the empty MP, wouldn't they not like the game?
If they like a game, there is nothing you can do to change that. You flailing around going "Oh hurr durr Warband better you just haven't played it so you don't really know enough about M&B to actually like the game" is really foolish.
Well, I can lay out my arguments, as I have, and explain why warband is superior to bannerlord. If they don't agree, then they are either dumb or don't understand the language I'm speaking. Unlike you, I actually explain why Bannerlord is trash.
Only issue with that is they're not. There is no dire situation for TW. BL has been well recieved.
As I pointed out, if they don't have a strong fanbase, they won't hype up the next game. The only reason Bannerlord sold so well is because the fanbase hyped it up, and because it took so long. The sheer amount of waiting kept people in so much suspense. Without that again, TW's next game will be a flop. As I've explained, 10 times on this thread.
The next game that they release will most likely be successful.
Without a strong fanbase to hype it up, it won't.
I love the backtracking.
There's a big difference between someone who has played 100 hours and someone who has played 300. Likely, the 300 hour person will play more and more, whereas someone with 100 at this point unless they just got it are likely not to come back, unless in 6 months they're like oh, yeah, that game, lemme try it out again.
It is a brief learning curve. Once you try it out, you pick up on it really quickly. Honestly, it isn't any more complex than EU4 or HOI4. I actually find HOI to be more complex in many ways.
I would say EU4 is more complicated in the long term because the game lasts much longer, so there are more things you have to worry about. Events, disasters, ages, etc., whereas Hoi is more complicated in the short term, I will agree.

Don't forget Leviathan. That alone makes the DLC policy for EU4 just god awful. You literally couldn't play as nations without the DLC, which hurt cause Majaphajit was actually one of my favorite starts.
That was a sad attempt at a DLC. I am honestly ashamed of those clowns and they reaaaaaally should have tested it beforehand. Crashes, save games randomly disappearing, etc. What were they thinking? And after many patches, so many things are still broken in terms of gameplay, 60 dev capital by 1480...multiplayer meta is so busted.
 
I don't know how you can't understand why the game should not be in EA. It should have been released in 2012-2013. It should not be in EA after a decade and there is no excuse for it. We have told you like 50 times, why can't you understand that?
Because your points are bad. The game should be in EA because the company doesn't feel that it is ready for release. It literally doesn't matter when you think the game should have been released, only when TW thinks the game should be released. Mexxico spoke on the troubled development, and TW is working to speed things up. The game should be in EA because that is what the developers think it should be in. How hard is that to understand?
I'm not the most experienced in SP, but there are genuine concerns with it being devoid of many important features.
The SP, for the most part, is fine. Most of the missing features are being worked on and added, and some ones that we know nothing about aren't as important, such as feasts.
Well, I can lay out my arguments, as I have, and explain why warband is superior to bannerlord. If they don't agree, then they are either dumb or don't understand the language I'm speaking. Unlike you, I actually explain why Bannerlord is trash.
You fundamentally don't understand how human beings work. People don't care if you have well-thought-out ideas as to why a game is bad, they just like the game because they like it. The problem doesn't lie with the people who like BL, the problem lies with you and your failure to accept that fact.
Without a strong fanbase to hype it up, it won't.
10,000 players on BL and thousands of views on Youtube beg to differ. The fanbase is strong, you're just looking into your corner of the internet.
There's a big difference between someone who has played 100 hours and someone who has played 300. Likely, the 300 hour person will play more and more, whereas someone with 100 at this point unless they just got it are likely not to come back, unless in 6 months they're like oh, yeah, that game, lemme try it out again.
That wasn't the backtracking. And most people put 100 hours into a game if they like it, 200-300 if they really like it, and more if that is one of their favorite games. Most people don't sink hundreds of hours into every game they own, especially ones that focus around a SP game mode.
 
The next game that they release will most likely be successful. Not the same amount of BL, but BL was the long awaited sequel to WB.
Maybe, but if they continue with the practices they have now, more people will eventually wise up and get tired of this BS. This is not a good path for TW. They may have their success now but their space game or whatever else they do down the line will not be as well-received if they continue like this. TW is able to get away with it mostly because they have a good prior history. In the future when their history starts getting noticeably bad and like their future-present, opinions like ours will be more mainstream.
 
Maybe, but if they continue with the practices they have now, more people will eventually wise up and get tired of this BS. This is not a good path for TW.
The path TW is on isn't the worst one that it could be on. The path it is on isn't going to lead to its downfall whatsoever. People aren't just gonna wake up and suddenly hate TW, no, they're just gonna keep on playing BL as they have done for the past year. BL has been a success, both financially and critically, and the public's reception to it has been the same. There is no dire situation for TW. Are there issues that need to be resolved? Yeah, of course there is. There are things I want to be changed with BL, and things people want from TW. However, this situation isn't going to lead to the death of TW whatsoever.
 
As DLCs are added, they rebalance the game for all the DLCs. This is probably the worst in EU4 which is quite literally not a functional game without paying about £60 extra. The more they add, the worse it gets.

Last time EU4 was playable without paywalls was like 2015 before they added development buttons, institutions and estates. The game frequently breaks without these, especially development.
I don't play EU4, but can't you just rollback to a patch prior to a specific DLC release?

Edit: Yeah, this guy talks about that exact issue here. I guess you still can't mix and match old patch balance with newer DLCs, but it seems like it would be nearly impossible to balance a game in a way that supports any given subset of DLCs when you release as many Paradox does. Either way, it looks like it's still possible to play vanilla balance without having to drop money on DLCs.
 
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Because your points are bad.
They aren’t bad though. I’ve laid out why bannerlord is bad and warband is good. Your response? The points are bad.
The game should be in EA because the company doesn't feel that it is ready for release. It literally doesn't matter when you think the game should have been released, only when TW thinks the game should be released. Mexxico spoke on the troubled development, and TW is working to speed things up. The game should be in EA because that is what the developers think it should be in. How hard is that to understand?
I understand that, and I see that he explained it. That’s good to know, but it is still not an excuse. I very well get Mexxicos post, but it does not absolve taleworlds of their wrongdoing. Explaining a mistake does not fix it. Also, are they speeding things up? The recent updates have been devoid of anything worthwhile.
You fundamentally don't understand how human beings work. People don't care if you have well-thought-out ideas as to why a game is bad, they just like the game because they like it. The problem doesn't lie with the people who like BL, the problem lies with you and your failure to accept that fact.
I understand they “just like it”, but I’m not just going to agree to disagree. Again, for the thousandth time, if someone says they enjoy Nathan Fielder’s Poo flavored ice cream, I’m going to explain to them why they are wrong, and why literally any normal flavor is superior. I’m going to argue my point and why I think it’s right. You are welcome to have your opinion, but enjoying bannerlord over warband is like enjoying poo flavored ice cream over vanilla.
10,000 players on BL and thousands of views on Youtube beg to differ. The fanbase is strong, you're just looking into your corner of the internet.
The fan base is not nearly as strong as it once was. Out of 4 million sales, 10,000 in game average is pitiful. YouTube channels like ironhawk and resonant had to change their content because bannerlord videos simply don’t sell anymore. The hype reached its peak around 2017, and the hype train is pretty much dead. I think you will agree that there are not nearly as many people who are hyped for bannerlord now as there were then? The fact that warband numbers are even close to bannerlords average player base is beyond horrid and very worrying. The ratio in a normal world would be like 20 bannerlord players to 1 warband (like shogun 2 to shogun 1 total war at shogun 2s heyday). The fact it’s this close (sometimes warband takes over bannerlords play base during certain events) shows that this is a dying game, and certainly not one to base a fan-driven sequel push behind.
 
They aren’t bad though. I’ve laid out why bannerlord is bad and warband is good. Your response? The points are bad.
You've laid out why you think BL is bad, and why you think WB is good. You literally cannot comprehend why people can have different opinions than you. Any point I make will be bad because you just can't comprehend anything else. You are incredibly close-minded.

Also, I called your points in relation to the game being released in 2020 bad, not the ones about liking the game. Read my post.
Also, are they speeding things up? The recent updates have been devoid of anything worthwhile.
They've brought a promised feature to the game and have expanded on modding options. They have also increased the rate of patches. They are speeding up and if you cannot see that you are blind.
I’m going to explain to them why they are wrong
Once again, you have a complete failure on how human beings think. You don't just explain how someone's opinion on a piece of media is wrong, because their opinion is subjective.
Out of 4 million sales, 10,000 in game average is pitiful.
Warband sold six million and had a peak player count of 33,000. Bannerlord had a larger peak and has more active, consistent players. The community is as healthy as it ever has been.
The fanbase for BL is larger than WB. It has reached more people.
 
You've laid out why you think BL is bad, and why you think WB is good. You literally cannot comprehend why people can have different opinions than you. Any point I make will be bad because you just can't comprehend anything else. You are incredibly close-minded.
Okay, I think you misunderstand. It's not why I think Bannerlord and Warband are bad/good. It's why they are bad or good. For example, Bannerlord has better graphics. That's not my opinion, it's a fact. Warband has a functioning multiplayer. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. The facts like these formulate my opinion, and weigh the reasons why I am pro or against something. In the case of Warband over Bannerlord, it is pretty clear whose side the facts are on.
They've brought a promised feature to the game and have expanded on modding options. They have also increased the rate of patches. They are speeding up and if you cannot see that you are blind.
What promised feature are you referring to?

Also, I understand that they have promised things such as private servers. They also promised a release in 2016. And 2017. 2018....you get the point. Their promises are as valuable as British propaganda leaflets being dropped over Germany in 1940. I am sure they will release the private servers at some point, but I'm not convinced it'll be any time soon. Also, just because they have sped up from a snail's pace to a sloth's, doesn't mean that I am satisfied. They are still advancing "hella slow" as some would say, and should have been able to produce an entirely new game since March of 2020 by now. Instead, they are still struggling to get together this one.
Once again, you have a complete failure on how human beings think. You don't just explain how someone's opinion on a piece of media is wrong, because their opinion is subjective.
Yes you do lol. What do you think reviews are? Debate on movies/games/etc. Why would this entire sector of media (media criticism) exist? Have you ever gone from under your rock and realized that people criticize things all the time? Why are you even looking at reviews in that case? Ever heard of this guy: https://www.youtube.com/user/AngryJoeShow ? Is he just not allowed to post because "opinions are subjective"? No, anyone and everyone is welcome to voice their opinion and explain why they think people are wrong. This is the dumbest take I've seen yet. I really want to be charitable, but its hard when you say things like this. Like, did I read this correctly?
Warband sold six million and had a peak player count of 33,000. Bannerlord had a larger peak and has more active, consistent players. The community is as healthy as it ever has been.
The fanbase for BL is larger than WB. It has reached more people.
Warband was also released in a different time period, when gaming itself was far smaller, or at the very least, steam was. With steam's rapid expansion over the past few years (specifically 2014-2015), this is obviously going to bolster games in general. Either way, I'm not saying that Bannerlord isn't popular, but it does not have a serious core fanbase, and thus will not be able to hype up the next M&B game.
 
Okay, I think you misunderstand. It's not why I think Bannerlord and Warband are bad/good. It's why they are bad or good. For example, Bannerlord has better graphics. That's not my opinion, it's a fact. Warband has a functioning multiplayer. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. The facts like these formulate my opinion, and weigh the reasons why I am pro or against something. In the case of Warband over Bannerlord, it is pretty clear whose side the facts are on.
You are entitled to your opinion, but that is all that it is. However sympathetic I might be towards the MP community's plight, any problems with MP do not influence my enjoyment of BL. That's also the case for other SP only players. Is BL complete? No, but it has better graphics than Warband, bigger battles and better army mechanics. BL lacks depth and immersion in non-combat areas, but that was also true of unmodded Warband.
I don't know how you can't understand why the game should not be in EA. It should have been released in 2012-2013.
This is nonsense. BL isn't built using Warband's engine. The new BL engine wasn't finished in 2013. TW only massively increased their staffing in 2015/2016 after completing it.
Lots of games rush out sequels because they mount new game 'bodywork' on the same software engine. Starting from scratch is entirely different.
The earliest a barebones EA version of MP only could have been released was 2016, which was clearly a plan of TW's at one stage. Given the current problems with MP, an earlier more rudimentary release would have been a disaster unmitigated by favourable SP only reviews.
 
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This is nonsense. BL isn't built using Warband's engine. The new BL engine wasn't finished in 2013. TW only massively increased their staffing in 2015/2016 after completing it.
It shouldn't have taken that long to begin with. While a new engine certainly does take a bit of time to develop, there isn't a reason that it ought to have been on a new engine, as WFAS was not, even if it did, 2014 is the latest I give them to actually get the game done in a reasonable amount of time.
Lots of games rush out sequels because they mount new game 'bodywork' on the same software engine. Starting from scratch is entirely different.
The earliest a barebones EA version of MP only could have been released was 2016, which was clearly a plan of TW's at one stage. Given the current problems with MP, an earlier more rudimentary release would have been a disaster unmitigated by favourable SP only reviews.
Sure, that's true, however again, my point is that it is somewhat pitiful and sad that it took them 6 years to get a version that would have been somewhat playable, and likely completely horrendous as we have seen the terror of the EA MP after 5 years of more development. I'm not pushing for the game to be released early, I'm pushing for them to do their jobs and finish the game early. I obviously don't want a product that doesn't work. Who does? I'm saying that they have done a tremendously horrid job developing it and continue to do so, and need to fix that.
 
What I would say about Warband / Bannerlord is I can no longer play Warband. I just can't. It's my all-time favourite game but it just feels clunky and small to me now. I don't enjoy it anymore. That alone IMPO signifies that Bannerlord has improved the formula. I can still play Dawn of War 1, I still prefer Halo 3 / Reach to the newer ones - so this isn't always the case but with M&B it definitely is.
 
Okay, I think you misunderstand. It's not why I think Bannerlord and Warband are bad/good. It's why they are bad or good. For example, Bannerlord has better graphics. That's not my opinion, it's a fact.
People can prefer older graphics to newer ones. Better graphics is still subjective. Artstyle is more important than polygons. Even with this, you fail to understand that people can still just like things without weighing every single pro and con about something. They do that when they are buying things, and that's why I tend to recommend WB first. It is cheaper, and a good intro to the series.
What promised feature are you referring to?
Keep battles and spear bracing, have you not been keeping up with the beta branches or have you just been posting in this thread?
Yes you do lol.
No you don't lol.

Reviewers post their own subjective opinion. And even games that are reviewed poorly have people that like them. People base what they will buy off of reviewers, who cover what the game is. When people like something, just because the game is reviewed badly you can't go "Well, you actually can't like that game". You'd be delusional to do so.
Warband was also released in a different time period
It sold six million copies and had a peak playercount of 30,000. If gaming was smaller, it wouldn't have sold six million copies.

And 10,000 monthly players beg to differ, with peaks often reaching 20,000. There is a strong fanbase, and if you can't see it then you're literally looking everywhere but where it is.
 
People can prefer older graphics to newer ones.
I suppose there is a certain nice aspect to the aesthetic of older games, however, if you want to be taken seriously when reviewing a game, you need to take into account better graphics as a plus. I'm not saying people can't enjoy older graphics, like the n64 or ps2, but in regards to this conversation, it is not what we are talking about.
Better graphics is still subjective.
Bannerlord having better graphics than warband is not subjective.
Artstyle is more important than polygons. Even with this, you fail to understand that people can still just like things without weighing every single pro and con about something. They do that when they are buying things, and that's why I tend to recommend WB first. It is cheaper, and a good intro to the series.
I'm not saying they aren't free to like things, but when presenting an argument, I am going to bring graphics into account, as well as other pros and cons. This is where I base my argument behind and it is a rather logical one. I have said this so many times and yet it goes over your head like a plane.
Keep battles and spear bracing, have you not been keeping up with the beta branches or have you just been posting in this thread?
Just getting an example out of you. Not doubting it. Moving on...
No you don't lol.
Yes, you do lol. That is something called free speech, something I do not have currently in my extradition, but nevertheless is a human right. I am happy you oppose it, at least we get to have diversity in the marketplace of ideas!!!!!11!11
Reviewers post their own subjective opinion. And even games that are reviewed poorly have people that like them. People base what they will buy off of reviewers, who cover what the game is. When people like something, just because the game is reviewed badly you can't go "Well, you actually can't like that game". You'd be delusional to do so.
Reviewers post their own subjective opinion, and if the reviewer is a good one, it is based off of facts about the game. They do not simply say "I like this game." and then leave it at that. They point to specific pros and cons about the game, and come to a conclusion about it. A lot of the time, the pros and cons are unbalanced in one direction or the other, though sometimes it is not as clear-cut. Again, I have to repeat myself, but I'm not saying you can't like the game, I'm saying if you do like it over warband, you are either ignorant as to why warband is better, are a simp for TW, or so overvalue Bannerlord's pros that you are willing to overlook its massive con list in favor of those pros. Again, you are more than welcome to take any of those positions -- it doesn't mean you are right.
It sold six million copies and had a peak playercount of 30,000.
Well that's not true. Mount and Blade has sold 6 million copies, not Bannerlord. As I tend to remember, there are other Mount and Blade games...
If gaming was smaller, it wouldn't have sold six million copies.
I don't know what this sentence means.
And 10,000 monthly players beg to differ, with peaks often reaching 20,000. There is a strong fanbase, and if you can't see it then you're literally looking everywhere but where it is.
For the amount of hype that Bannerlord received, as well as copies sold, that is pretty pitiful. Again, when Warband is getting half of that number, a game that came out over a decade ago, you know something is wrong. Also, something you fail to take in mind is that not all fans are created equal -- some fans, like Ironhawk and Resonant, make videos and draw people to the franchise. Clan leaders like myself make clans for people to join and stay on certain modules. When you piss people like that off, they don't do things like that, and don't hype up and extend the life of your game. A lot of people like that are either pissed with Bannerlord or just disinterested at that point. That's not a good thing.
 
Bannerlord having better graphics than warband is not subjective.
To some, it is. Do I think BL has better graphics, yes, but I wouldn't call someone an idiot if they say that they prefer the graphics of WB.
I'm not saying they aren't free to like things, but when presenting an argument, I am going to bring graphics into account, as well as other pros and cons. This is where I base my argument behind and it is a rather logical one. I have said this so many times and yet it goes over your head like a plane.
Except for that the entire conversation up until this point has been explaining to you that people can prefer BL to WB, and you refusing to accept that. There isn't an argument when it comes to which game people are free to prefer.
Yes, you do lol. That is something called free speech, something I do not have currently in my extradition, but nevertheless is a human right. I am happy you oppose it, at least we get to have diversity in the marketplace of ideas!!!!!11!11
Except you're literally policing people's opinions. You're not having a healthy conversation, you're mind is literally shut.
Reviewers post their own subjective opinion, and if the reviewer is a good one, it is based off of facts about the game.
Not everyone is a reviewer. People can like the games that they buy with their own money for any reason that they see fit.

And if we're talking about reviewers, it looks like most of them review the game in a positive light.
Well that's not true.
Most of the sales sold from the other franchises on M&B were from WB. According to SteamDB, it has sold roughly 5,000,000 copies, yet still retains a smaller player base than what you think a successful game should have. Either you're completely wrong, or the M&B fanbase was never as strong as you thought it was.
I don't know what this sentence means.
Gaming wasn't smaller if WB was able to sell millions of copies. Your excuse falls flat.
For the amount of hype that Bannerlord received, as well as copies sold, that is pretty pitiful.
Like I said, either you're wrong or WB is also pitiful. My argument is neither are.

And WB is getting 1/4, of the players that BL is getting, not one half. And older games can still remain active even as newer ones come out, just look at the Company of Heroes series. There is nothing wrong with the fanbase for BL. Actually, I take that back, there is something wrong with the fanbase that has been made obvious by this thread.
Clan leaders like myself make clans for people to join and stay on certain modules. =
You're not helping this franchise. Don't place yourself on a pedestal above other people when you've done literally nothing but complain about pointless things.
 
60 fps with PBR graphics, inverse kinematics, 4K textures, graphite tileset streaming, multi-threading and up to 2,048 agent SP battles are impossible on the Warband engine.

An engine is just C++ code, all the things you mentioned can just be implemented normally. Even modders have done a few of the things here without any access to the engine code.

The main reason "new engines" are made is because after that many years a codebase just becomes incomprehensible. The people who initially wrote the base classes or whatever are either not working there anymore, or just forgot how they work. Having tried to debug Unreal Engine's C++ code base a few times, you can see where they've forgotten that features exist or forgotten how to use them, and just added new ones from scratch. There are currently 3 separate particle systems, 3 UI editors, and hundreds of unused variables that they can't remove because nobody knows how many things they change.

Warband is much worse than this, you can tell that a lot of it was designed before Armagan really knew the scope of the game, so it's a chaotic mess with overlapping functionality and a lot of redundancy. You could definitely modernise it, but the process would definitely make multiple coders commit suicide. That isn't to say it can't be done at all though. Bethesda has been using the "same" engine for decades now, and it's completely modern from what I have seen. Unity and Unreal are theseus ships dating back to the bush era.
 
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To some, it is. Do I think BL has better graphics, yes, but I wouldn't call someone an idiot if they say that they prefer the graphics of WB.
Well, they would be, because Bannerlord's graphics are just...better. They are more polished, better quality, etc. Warband looks a step up from minecraft for all its brilliance. That's not up for debate.
Except for that the entire conversation up until this point has been explaining to you that people can prefer BL to WB, and you refusing to accept that.
I'm not saying they can't have it, I'm just saying that opinion is dumb.
There isn't an argument when it comes to which game people are free to prefer.
We are literally having that argument at this very moment? I am talking about things that make Warband better, those are arguments!
Except you're literally policing people's opinions. You're not having a healthy conversation, you're mind is literally shut.
My mind isn't shut, if people brought reasons as to why Bannerlord is better, I'd analyze them and see if they are correct. However, since almost nobody has done so -- they just whine and complain about me being close-minded or "get a life loser hahahaha", without actually saying anything. I think you'd be surprised if you re-read this entire thread to see that there's very little points being made by the TW simp camp, if you want you can try to argue about some reasons as to why Bannerlord is better, I'd love to look at them.
Not everyone is a reviewer. People can like the games that they buy with their own money for any reason that they see fit.
I'm not saying they can't, but what I am saying is that there are certain facts about Bannerlord that make it inferior to warband, regardless of what people's opinion on Bannerlord is. If people take these into account that's great. They don't have to, but it would be good for them to be informed and understand why it is garbage.
Most of the sales sold from the other franchises on M&B were from WB. According to SteamDB, it has sold roughly 5,000,000 copies, yet still retains a smaller player base than what you think a successful game should have. Either you're completely wrong, or the M&B fanbase was never as strong as you thought it was.
The estimates being thrown around are pretty rough. First, we are told that M&B series has sold 6 million copies, now Warband has sold 5, yet Bannerlord has sold 3-5? That doesn't add up. Either way, its kind of irrelevant so moving on.
Gaming wasn't smaller if WB was able to sell millions of copies. Your excuse falls flat.
Gaming back in the early 2010's was much smaller than it is today, and the fact that there is anyone even still playing the game regularly (not for "oh, Haven't played that in a few years, mine as well give it another run" nostalgia reasons) is a pretty strong victory in Warband's regard. I would have expected it to be completely dead by 2014-2015 if I was TW, and yet it still lives. That means my excuse actually doesn't fall flat, but is instead a estimate to Warband's popularity and competency.
Like I said, either you're wrong or WB is also pitiful. My argument is neither are.
I don't think you understand that a game that is as old as warband with the type of company that produces it (not Valve where they can pump trillions into marketing and regular game-sized updates) should not be getting as many players as it does today. Again, this is a victory in my view, especially for how bad Warband's graphics really are. Its hard to rope in new fans when your game looks like garbage, and yet Warband still seems to be attracting new buyers.
And WB is getting 1/4, of the players that BL is getting, not one half. And older games can still remain active even as newer ones come out, just look at the Company of Heroes series.
I'm not saying that older games can't receive a cult following, however, as with the previous paragraph, this game logically should have died out years ago. It is inconceivable to think that Warband is still alive, but I don't need to repeat myself.
There is nothing wrong with the fanbase for BL. Actually, I take that back, there is something wrong with the fanbase that has been made obvious by this thread.
If you think that people who are not satisfied with an unfinished, falsely advertised product that took a decade to develop are a "problem" with the fanbase, then I suppose you are correct. Unfortunately, the problem is the other way around. It's not our fault the game has a mountain of issues, we didn't create it.
You're not helping this franchise. Don't place yourself on a pedestal above other people when you've done literally nothing but complain about pointless things.
Well, see, I can understand from your perspective why you'd think that, but you know little to nothing about me, and vise versa. I have kept the Persistent World/Kingdoms module alive for many years longer than it was supposed to, and whether or not you like me, that is a positive, no? Either way, clan leaders objectively keep the modules they are on alive by continuing to foster a community for members to join. Without these types of communities, the servers inevitably shrink or even disappear entirely due to the lack of interest. How do you think Napoleonic Wars has lasted so long? Because of random people joining a TDM server? Admittedly, that is a part of the community, however is a very small part and inevitably, those people are picked up and recruited into regiments every now and then.
 
I'm not saying they can't have it, I'm just saying that opinion is dumb.
You cannot say an opinion is dumb. Stop dividing the fanbase. You are literally doing nothing to help anything. Your "critiques" are you just ranting about how the game is bad, how it isn't actually as well-liked as it is, and how TW should feel bad about not releasing an unfinished game in 2013 even with the devs telling you how troubling development has been. You are quite literally only spreading hate and toxicity on this forum, and you do this has been demonstrated for the past page with your refusal to allow other people to like a game.
We are literally having that argument at this very moment? I am talking about things that make Warband better, those are arguments!
It is a one-sided argument with you ranting about how people are ignorant if they prefer BL over WB. Your entire position is what I am arguing against.
they just whine and complain about me being close-minded
They whine and complain because you call them idiots for preferring a game over one that you like. You're like a music nerd who scoffs at anyone who listens to Nirvana while you listen to real music.
Gaming back in the early 2010's was much smaller than it is today
Cult games can have large audiences over long periods of time. If gaming were smaller back then, people wouldn't have bought six million copies. Your attempt to insult the playerbase of BL is flawed and baseless.
If you think that people who are not satisfied with an unfinished, falsely advertised product that took a decade to develop are a "problem" with the fanbase
I have no issue with anyone who takes issue with the current state of BL. It is their right, they bought the game, and they are owed their opinion. I take issue when people start bashing the game with baseless claims, already giving up on the game after a year in EA. I take issue when these people try to spread their negativity to other parts of the fanbase, trying to "blackpill" others into seeing it their way. I take issue when these people claim that they are saving the franchise when they are doing the exact opposite.

Actual criticism is needed, whatever this thread has been is not.
I have kept the Persistent World/Kingdoms module alive for many years longer than it was supposed to, and whether or not you like me, that is a positive, no?
I don't care about what good you have done in the past, I care about the negative impact that you have now.
 
You cannot say an opinion is dumb.
I can, lol? I just did. What do you propose? Ban my account? Arrest me? Extradite me? I don't understand what you don't get about free speech.
Stop dividing the fanbase.
If raising awareness of the issues in Bannerlord is "dividing the fanbase", then I am guilty of it.
You are literally doing nothing to help anything.
I disagree.
Your "critiques" are you just ranting about how the game is bad, how it isn't actually as well-liked as it is,
Both true!
and how TW should feel bad about not releasing an unfinished game in 2013 even with the devs telling you how troubling development has been.
I'm not saying they should have released an unfinished game in 2013. I am saying they should have released a finished game in 2013.
You are quite literally only spreading hate and toxicity on this forum, and you do this has been demonstrated for the past page with your refusal to allow other people to like a game.
No? Granted, many of my posts are here (and I would disagree that they are "spreading hate and toxicity"), but I do post on other threads -- I have posted absolutely nothing negative on the Kingdoms Mod thread. I'm not refusing other people to like a game, I am just saying that they are wrong in believing that Bannerlord is better than Warband, because it isn't. I'm not a totalitarian like yourself demanding that things are not allowed to be said.
It is a one-sided argument with you ranting about how people are ignorant if they prefer BL over WB. Your entire position is what I am arguing against.
Except you aren't, are you? You just sort of circle around it but even throughout this entire page you haven't really said anything aside from "You can't do that!!!11!!1" I say, uhh, I can, I'm typing things, and then you say "but you can't type those things1!!!1!11" and then I repeat myself on and on again.
They whine and complain because you call them idiots for preferring a game over one that you like. You're like a music nerd who scoffs at anyone who listens to Nirvana while you listen to real music.
Again, I've explained why warband is a superior game, rather than just saying "I just prefer warband". To my knowledge, that's all you or any of the TW simps have done. They don't really have any arguments, because there are not any real arguments for it (aside from graphics). Again, you are more than welcome to hold any position you wish, but if you are going to post about it, you should probably be ready to defend it, or get scrutinized by people who disagree.
Cult games can have large audiences over long periods of time. If gaming were smaller back then, people wouldn't have bought six million copies. Your attempt to insult the playerbase of BL is flawed and baseless.
Okay, can we actually get a tally of how many copies of Warband were sold? These numbers are just not adding up. Again, first you have said that the six million figure is from bannerlord -- then you say it is from warband? You are all over the place. I may have to declare you lost in the sauce soon. Also, I know you are not a fan of them, but it is an objective fact the video game industry has expanded very much over the past decade, especially with the prevalence of steam.
I have no issue with anyone who takes issue with the current state of BL. It is their right, they bought the game, and they are owed their opinion. I take issue when people start bashing the game with baseless claims, already giving up on the game after a year in EA.
Except that I haven't used "baseless claims". I've laid out a lot of reasons (but not all of them, as there are too many to count) about why Bannerlord is bad, why the development is taking way too long, etc. The only person spreading "baseless claims", it could be argued, is you, but that would be a flawed argument since you haven't really made any claims aside from that I'm not allowed to say stuff.
I take issue when these people try to spread their negativity to other parts of the fanbase, trying to "blackpill" others into seeing it their way. I take issue when these people claim that they are saving the franchise when they are doing the exact opposite.
Well, you see, in order to enact progress, people need to want that progress. I don't see an issue with getting people on board with your message/idea, even if it is negative, in order to get things to change for the better. TW has been content in releasing an inferior product, and unless people speak out against that, they will try again and again.
I don't care about what good you have done in the past, I care about the negative impact that you have now.
Well, strictly speaking, I am continuing to do so, but you did say I do absolutely nothing but negativity. Let's throw the clan situation out the window, I don't think this thread is negative at all. In fact, I would say it's a great victory. We got one of the devs (albeit one that resigned) to post on it, clearly showing that is being taken into attention of people in high places. Every new post exponentially mounts more and more an aura of dissatisfaction with the game, which is bound to be seen. After all, this is the fifth-most posted thread on the Bannerlord subforum. That doesn't happen every day. Ultimately, I want Bannerlord to be a good game, and I believe you do too, but the ball is completely in TW court.
 
Ultimately, I want Bannerlord to be a good game, and I believe you do too, but the ball is completely in TW court.
Bannerlord SP is already a good game with awesome graphical optimisation; I would like it to become a great game with lots of banners. I'm not qualified to judge MP. The ball has always been in TW's court and they are clearly committed to finishing their vision, however different from ours. I am confident that TW will deliver custom servers eventually, but you may need to rely on modders to subsequently resurrect Warband MP game modes. Similarly, I'm confident they will eventually remove hard-coded roadblocks to modding full conversion SP campaigns. However, I don't much care about missing SP Warband features such as random battle maps, feasts, poetry, manhunters, deserters, marshals, tavern drunks etc. I'm more concerned about the game's minimum pc spec, limiting our future to 2,048 agent SP battles despite on-going improvements in hardware. If it's a power of two issue, jumping to 4,096 agents is a major step that will probably never happen for this game.
 
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