Bannerlord was a grift

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reddit retards are just as bad
People just downvote everything and can't stand being told NO. "Is x comming soon?"" Nope, it's not coming at all" *downvote downvote downvote*
I'll give a factual gameplay answer and get a reddit message "go look at your 5 upvotes" and I'll look and it's at -2.... so 5 people liked it and 7 downvoted it for no reason. I didn't make the game that way don't blame me!

Seriously... just look at the trending topics on the Steam boards if you want a cheap laugh.

"Please add elephants!" "Armour: useless" "Why is killing a lord so punishing?" "Why can't I change my beard?" "Increase companion limits?" "No lords want to join me"

AND THE FUNNIEST:
"When the game will support workshop?"

Lol TW isn't even supporting modders on the official forums. Steam Workshop support is just delusional.
Aaaaaw Bonerstorm got muted! The steam boards look like a Craig's list bulletin board or something! Lol you weren't kidding about questions! I went to answer the beard one but TW beat me to it. Good job TW community, wouldn't want a player to miss out on that barber feature!
 
Yet still some of the game defenders call them 'A positive audience', while the forum people are toxic.
It's not surprising, reddit is like a children's picture book, the forums is like a thinking place for high iq's with big cocks and the occasional moron who sneaks in
 
I'm starting to think they're basically just trying to stop Sauron, kill Alduin, stop Molag Bal, kill the Ender Dragon and beat Getting Over It all at once.
They are not trying to add features that players want. They are merely fixing the half-assedness of features already in the game, doong some balancing and bugfixing.
They are only playing one game at once, Qwop.
 
They are not trying to add features that players want. They are merely fixing the half-assedness of features already in the game, doong some balancing and bugfixing.
They are only playing one game at once, Qwop.
At this point if they fix the half assed features I will be overjoyed. Though, as I said, they could stand to be more transparent about their current objectives.
 
They touted the barber as a feature when it is entirely purposeless given that editor was in the game at the time, that is just laughable. Just beyond pathetic. They are still trying to convince people about this game.

TWs: this game will sink like a lead ball without Compete mod re-works. Some of them seem to be having fun in the campaign lol... What are you doing in the late game?

The fact that somehow they think we don't know this is a sinking ship is really an excellent form of propaganda. This game is a complete joke. They know it, just stop with the BS already and come clean about the problems. We all know what is going on here.
 
Picture of TaleWorlds Management releasing another dev diary, 2021(colorized):
<snipped>
(Mod edit: it was a graphic/disturbing image of Keanu Reeves puking)
 
由板主最后编辑:
TWs: this game will sink like a lead ball without Compete mod re-works.
The worst part is they don't seem to realise this or they just don't care, at least in their next project they won't have the foundation of Warband mods to carry their sales
 
The worst part is they don't seem to realise this or they just don't care, at least in their next project they won't have the foundation of Warband mods to carry their sales
Regarding Warband mods, wouldn't it have been nice if TW had looked at which features from those players liked, and then added said features to Bannerlord? Crazy thought I know...
And yes you're right, they lost their long time fans. And the casual audience don't care about their Space game. Heck with the development times of Taleworlds, Star Citizen will probably be fully released once it hits Early Access lol.
 
I’m posting this from my phone, so forgive the readability if it sucks. I’m also moving it to this thread as it seems more relevant than where I first put it.

The history of the game is the rags to riches dream of any new game developer. In this case starting from nothing, then making a basic working concept medieval fighting game. WarRider.

Then expanding and building an engine with a small development team into a real marketable game. Mount & Blade.

Then they expand just a little more on that rock-solid foundation of tried and true software and expand the features and improve the quality with the standalone expansion. They document the simplicity of modifying the code so that the game’s life is extensible even by amateur developers and modders FAR past its release replayability.

Warband, a beautiful game I spent probably over ten thousand hours playing. I’ve played it more than any other game.

Then they decided to take the next logical step.
They’re not Indie anymore, they’re ready to be the biggest video game development studio in Turkey.

A true sequel successor is what makes sense.
Bannerlord.
What could go wrong?

Well if you’re starting from scratch creatively on a brand new software engine with a large development team and you’ve never done that before...

Anything, everything can absolutely go wrong and if you do not know the way, with something like software development, it is virtually guaranteed to go wrong.

I’ve been absolutely saddened by the state of BannerLord. I’ve sort of moved on.
I’ve also lately been absolutely intrigued by learning about software development as a discipline.

My favourite channel to listen to about this subject is Continuous Delivery.

He posted a video today describing in some detail his understanding of the efficient production of software.



I think what has happened is that much of the early development time was lost. This is really a very ambitious and complex project. They probably had to scrap much of their progress due to an inefficient development cycle. Hence the need for an even now incomplete refactoring of the code.

I don’t think it’s anybody’s fault really. The fact is that the game is too large of a project for certain development strategies.

If the development strategy is not correct from the beginning there is potential for massive amounts of time and work to be wasted.

I get the feeling that this may be what has happened. It’s an honest mistake, I think.

Whether the game’s development can be saved at this point remains to be seen. At this point TW has got to be feeling the heat. I want badly for them to succeed, but the state of the game is improving too slowly. It’s just not fun enough, and it won’t be until some point after the refactoring is satisfactory to TW and the modding community can finally get their teeth into the gameplay side of things.


Seems like the devs need to watch the video embedded. They're constantly reintroducing old bugs. As I understand it, it's a lack of testing.

Regarding Warband mods, wouldn't it have been nice if TW had looked at which features from those players liked, and then added said features to Bannerlord? Crazy thought I know...

Yea common sense? Pfft..who needs that.
 
This is a thread going into more detail on a post I made last month here.

I will avoid the usage of the word "scam" as that could be seen as disingenuous and possibly libelous, even though as I will outline below, the figures are roughly correct, and it isn't libel if its true. Nevertheless, I'm going to lay forth a claim that Bannerlord, at least in its current state (And, as far as we know, the past few years) was simply a grift. Here's why:

Part 1. The Financial Breakdown

There will be bold in statements which are amendments to my previous post, or things needed to be added.

The average game developer in Istanbul (similar to Ankara) makes about 60 Turkish Lira an hour, which equates to about 7.05 USD, with an average pay of 125,000 Lira per year (about 14,500 USD). There are 131 employees at Taleworlds as of 2020. Therefore, the employee pay would be roughly 1,899,500 USD, probably a little less or more based on currency exchanges. I am not sure about Turkish tax law, but assuming their payroll taxes are roughly the same as the US, lets say 10%, rounding up lets say 2,200,000 for payroll and payroll taxes per year. Overhead is somewhat difficult to calculate, but I would put their facility costs (With electricity, which is cheap in Turkey) is probably around 5,000 a month, that is just a rough estimate based on how many employees they have and how much square footage they would need. So, overhead would be roughly 60,000 USD a year. To be conservative and account for accidents/miscellaneous expenses, lets put their expenses aside from marketing at roughly 2.5 million USD.

Bannerlord has sold between 3-5 million copies, according to steamdb and steamspy. At an average price of $45 (it depends on region, some places sell for less, some like pound and euro sell for more), after Steam's 30% cut, this leaves Taleworlds with roughly $31.50 for each sale. To be conservative, let's put it down to $30. With roughly 4 million sales, Taleworlds has made roughly $120 million in revenue from Bannerlord. Bannerlord has been in development since 2012 as far as we know, lets give them 2 years pre-announcement of development, which equals 11 years. Assuming 100% of their time at Taleworlds was devoted to Bannerlord (which it wasn't, warband was still in development well during this time period), this means that 27.5 million dollars was spent in expenses, lets double that for marketing. This expense of 55 million yielded them 120,000,000, which, with much wiggle room, cushions and conservative estimates, 65 million dollars (likely more because I doubt taleworlds spent that much in marketing, and salaries are probably less than I calculated, could be as much as 100 million USD). I may have gotten some calculations wrong along the way, and I may have estimated poorly, but no matter what, that is a lot of profit for the garbage can/excuse for a game that we got.

Part 2. Gameplay Features, or lack thereof

The gameplay of this "game" is, to put it lightly, lacking. There are more than enough threads to complain about the bare-bones, hollowness of the game. I am not a singleplayer player, I like multiplayer. The lack of multiplayer support for this game is at this point astounding and legendary. The fact that modders for various projects are simply waiting on Taleworlds to just let them get their hands on it so they can improve the game for everyone's enjoyment is beyond me. It is so snail-brained and what few "Explanations" taleworlds has given are vague and meaningless. They use a lot of words to say nothing.

The recent patches to the game have improved almost nothing, and the dev diaries show us no hope. With feature after feature being cancelled or postponed, it seems like Taleworlds is just doing nothing while goading us to trust them, holding a carrot in front of our eyes. Not even heraldry can be fixed.

tenor.gif


Part 3. Bannerlord Online

The lack of support for the Bannerlord Online mod, made by one random Russian guy in a basement, an absolutely gorgeous mod with so much ambition and potential, but most importantly what the fans wanted. The ambivalence towards it by Taleworlds shows, after years of people begging for co-op campaign somewhat proves that Taleworlds doesn't give a damn what their fans want or think. This is the most egregious example, but there are more. Gone are the days of improving upon mods like Mount and Musket, in with the days of "WE KNOW BEST **** OFF MODDERS!"

Part 4. Time

Bannerlord took forever to release and it is still in early access. You would think that a game with more time being tacked on to development would be better, not worse. But here we are, 11 years later, with nothing to show for it. What were they doing all that time? Twiddling their thumbs?

Conclusion: Bannerlord was a Grift
With all this being said, I think it is safe to include that, while perhaps Taleworlds intentions when they first developed Bannerlord wanted to make a better game, the idea of grandeur and money probably got the best of them. It's hard to exactly pinpoint when Taleworlds decided that money was more important than keeping fans happy, but I would wager around 2015-2016 was when the idea of an excellent game was thrown out the window in favor of cash. Do you agree?
**is a grift
 
I’m posting this from my phone, so forgive the readability if it sucks. I’m also moving it to this thread as it seems more relevant than where I first put it.

The history of the game is the rags to riches dream of any new game developer. In this case starting from nothing, then making a basic working concept medieval fighting game. WarRider.

Then expanding and building an engine with a small development team into a real marketable game. Mount & Blade.

Then they expand just a little more on that rock-solid foundation of tried and true software and expand the features and improve the quality with the standalone expansion. They document the simplicity of modifying the code so that the game’s life is extensible even by amateur developers and modders FAR past its release replayability.

Warband, a beautiful game I spent probably over ten thousand hours playing. I’ve played it more than any other game.

Then they decided to take the next logical step.
They’re not Indie anymore, they’re ready to be the biggest video game development studio in Turkey.

A true sequel successor is what makes sense.
Bannerlord.
What could go wrong?

Well if you’re starting from scratch creatively on a brand new software engine with a large development team and you’ve never done that before...

Anything, everything can absolutely go wrong and if you do not know the way, with something like software development, it is virtually guaranteed to go wrong.

I’ve been absolutely saddened by the state of BannerLord. I’ve sort of moved on.
I’ve also lately been absolutely intrigued by learning about software development as a discipline.

My favourite channel to listen to about this subject is Continuous Delivery.

He posted a video today describing in some detail his understanding of the efficient production of software.



I think what has happened is that much of the early development time was lost. This is really a very ambitious and complex project. They probably had to scrap much of their progress due to an inefficient development cycle. Hence the need for an even now incomplete refactoring of the code.

I don’t think it’s anybody’s fault really. The fact is that the game is too large of a project for certain development strategies.

If the development strategy is not correct from the beginning there is potential for massive amounts of time and work to be wasted.

I get the feeling that this may be what has happened. It’s an honest mistake, I think.

Whether the game’s development can be saved at this point remains to be seen. At this point TW has got to be feeling the heat. I want badly for them to succeed, but the state of the game is improving too slowly. It’s just not fun enough, and it won’t be until some point after the refactoring is satisfactory to TW and the modding community can finally get their teeth into the gameplay side of things.

Nice sentiment but this doesn’t account for them selling us out for console development
 
The game is not "large" or a "massive project", it has quite a few improvements and new features that weren't in Warband, but, isn't that any direct sequel??? If you are making Rome 2, you are going to include a) everything in rome 1 and b) new things. There weren't that many new things Bannerlord introduced. Of those, very few actually made it into the game, others were good ideas, but taleworlds decided co-op wasn't worth their time. It wasn't an "honest" mistake, or even a mistake. At least around 2016, they knew exactly what they were doing.
 
The game is not "large" or a "massive project", it has quite a few improvements and new features that weren't in Warband, but, isn't that any direct sequel??? If you are making Rome 2, you are going to include a) everything in rome 1 and b) new things. There weren't that many new things Bannerlord introduced. Of those, very few actually made it into the game, others were good ideas, but taleworlds decided co-op wasn't worth their time. It wasn't an "honest" mistake, or even a mistake. At least around 2016, they knew exactly what they were doing.

Systematically disregarding the needs and wants of your audience time and time again while holding them onboard under false pretenses is or atleast should be inexcusable. Unfortunately, companies die slowly.
 
Systematically disregarding the needs and wants of your audience time and time again while holding them onboard under false pretenses is or atleast should be inexcusable. Unfortunately, companies die slowly.
And long after the CEO's have collected their kings random in severance pay before going off to higher paying jobs. Fail upwards!
 
"Honestly all we ask is for some transparency at this point." Sounds suspiciously like the general attitude over at Larian's forums. It's like they have the same PR firm on retainer telling them to ignore every bit of feedback that comes their way and just do what ever the **** they want, playerbase opinions be damned.

I wonder if Sven and Armagan know each other.
 
The game is not "large" or a "massive project", it has quite a few improvements and new features that weren't in Warband, but, isn't that any direct sequel??? If you are making Rome 2, you are going to include a) everything in rome 1 and b) new things. There weren't that many new things Bannerlord introduced. Of those, very few actually made it into the game, others were good ideas, but taleworlds decided co-op wasn't worth their time. It wasn't an "honest" mistake, or even a mistake. At least around 2016, they knew exactly what they were doing.
Actually I’d say this game was a far larger project than the rather indie original. Warband was an expansion that took that engine as far it could go. They worked on an already polished project and codebase. The new game starts from scratch, and is just bigger. You also no longer have the efficiency of a small team, especially if testing isn’t automated and at least weekly.

Changes made by one dev on one branch might break the changes of another, and the less frequently they’re merged, the more bugs show up and damage the code, without knowing exactly how and where. This results in long and slow refactors of large portions of code.

A very easy mistake to make with the development strategy by a previously small team.
 
I mean, it'd better be a larger project than Warband. They've got far more people working on it now.
 
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