Bannerlord was a grift

[Roy1012]

Except they have given promises before and have struggled to keep them. At this point, it is better to wait for them to be certain for when it will be ready and then let everyone know. Making less promises is genuinely better for this community. Private servers will be ready when private servers are ready.

Yeah, obviously multiplayer mods cannot work until private servers and custom servers are made available. However, you never once specified multiplayer mods. You continued to simply state that TW is doing nothing for modders, which is simply not true. While yes, multiplayer mods are being stopped due to a lack of custom servers, my disagreement comes from that statement. The modding situation isn't perfect, however it is not as bleak as TW simply doing nothing.

TW has made it clear that private servers are a ways away, and until then, to repeat what I said earlier, all we can do is be patient and wait for them to release it. It would be another story if they hadn't even confirmed if private servers are going to be coming. If they had not been confirmed, then there would be good reason to be making a lot of noise over it. However, given that they said that they will be coming, there isn't really much that we can do until then.

I don’t understand what your point is. It’s like you are arguing for the sake of arguing. Like I say mcdonalds has a Big Mac on the menu, then you will try to argue it doesn’t. I think you are giving Taleworlds credit and the benefit of the doubt, then you say “well they have broken their word before how can we be sure they will come out with release?” Which side are you playing for?

I have mentioned multiple times (including in the original post) I am referring to multiplayer mods. Scroll up and you will see throughout the entirety of this nearly 30 page thread of which I have replied regularly I am talking about MP mods. Unless you are just being willfully ignorant. We have been talking about this back and forth for an entire page, so you have Alzheimer’s?

“While yes, multiplayer mods are being stopped due to a lack of private servers, my disagreement comes from that statement”. What are you even talking about? What is your argument? You say a true statement then say you disagree with it? I am so confused as to the point you are trying to make. Like I said though, I don’t think you are a good faith actor in this conversation since with this post you’ve showed your only here to complain and disagree, no matter how backwards or contradictory your arguments are. Seriously, what is your point? I genuinely want to know.

 

[Phantom425]

I don’t understand what your point is. It’s like you are arguing for the sake of arguing. Like I say mcdonalds has a Big Mac on the menu, then you will try to argue it doesn’t. I think you are giving Taleworlds credit and the benefit of the doubt, then you say “well they have broken their word before how can we be sure they will come out with release?” Which side are you playing for?

I have mentioned multiple times (including in the original post) I am referring to multiplayer mods. Scroll up and you will see throughout the entirety of this nearly 30 page thread of which I have replied regularly I am talking about MP mods. Unless you are just being willfully ignorant. We have been talking about this back and forth for an entire page, so you have Alzheimer’s?

“While yes, multiplayer mods are being stopped due to a lack of private servers, my disagreement comes from that statement”. What are you even talking about? What is your argument? You say a true statement then say you disagree with it? I am so confused as to the point you are trying to make. Like I said though, I don’t think you are a good faith actor in this conversation since with this post you’ve showed your only here to complain and disagree, no matter how backwards or contradictory your arguments are. Seriously, what is your point? I genuinely want to know.

Then I guess that there was a misunderstanding on my part. You did not specify that you were speaking of Multiplayer mods when speaking of TW discouraging mods, and you should have specified. However, I also had a misunderstanding in not realizing this. I do still stand by what I said for private servers, that it is best for TW not to give a specific date until they are certain that they can do it on that date. Making more promises is not good for this community, given how they have gone in the past.

However, I won't sit by and be insulted. I have been cordial this entire time, even during times when I parts of me did not want to be. Don't say that I have Alzheimer's when I have been treating you with respect, and don't question me arguing in good faith. I haven't don't it to you, and I'd expect the same in return.

There is also some context here. The MP scene is practically dead at the moment. A simple way to revive it and keep it going is to release custom servers right now, which the MP guys have been saying all along and keep saying it. Does TW value retaining some kind of a MP scene or do they expect veteran MP players and event and clan organizers to sit on their RGB gaming chairs like idiots and wait for them?
There's not even a commitment when they will be released, there's only a vague "some time after the release". How soon after the release? When is this release (Q4 at the moment, no guarantee it won't be postponed again)?
If you are a MP modder and are itching to start the real work on a MP mod, you need to know these things, or you may think they'll just sit on this indefinitely and they are wasting your time by their lack of timely action. A rational decision would be to give up.

I don't really disagree with any of this, expect for what should be done in the meantime. I expect that TW would want people to just play WB or some other game while they are working on the game. The game is not yet ready for these mods, and it probably will be at release. It is true that the MP scene will be hurt until this is done, but TW will release private servers when they are ready.

People like Phantom acting all superior and "be patient111!11!" along the way don't help either.

This isn't me being superior, this is literally all you can do until private servers are released.

 

[eddiemccandless]

I have been cordial this entire time, even during times when I have not been.

I am very confused now.

 

[Phantom425]

I am very confused now.

I am too. That was very stupid of me.

 

[Lord Grindelvald]

I wanted a Big Mac, with 2 100% beef patties and a slice of cheese, lettuce. onion and pickles as advertised on the menu, but it only came with 1 beef patty that was only 50% beef. I was outraged, but I understand mistakes happen, so I went back and asked for the Big Mac I ordered. however to my disbelief the employee behind the table told me it was no longer in their vision to serve Big Mac, as it no longer went along their idea of a McDonalds menu, either through sheer laziness or complete deceit for my money, I was taken advantage of and lied to.

But it's okay, the employee told me that instead I could be compensated with a cheese burger. So in the end what I got was 1 beef patty and a slice of cheese, instead of the 2 beef patties, lettuce, pickles and onions; and all for the price of a Big Mac.​

Moral of the story is, Taleworld's advertised the game of our dreams with all the content and direction we all wanted, but in the end somewhere along the lines they decided that it was no longer apart of their plan and changed course to give way for a lesser version of Bannerlord after they received all their money and positive light.

So yes, you may hurl your insults at us and call us fools for buying into an early access, and bear its spineless shield against criticism, But if at any moment you think we're on a childish fiery warpath against Taleworld's utter slow development of the game in a "Early Access" title. and your only ingenious solution
is "wait, it's still in early access, it will come" then no.

I'm not saying we're not angry at the snails pace of development, because we are, but the REAL issue is that they're no longer giving us what they promoted in their dev-blogs and previous statements. so no "it will come soon" is not right, because it's not coming, we'd all be fine if it took them a few more years to give us what we wanted, because after all we've already waited 8 years, a few more wont hurt. But what they wanted to give us initially, and what we should've got when we purchased this game; they have stated as such in many threads that it is NOT happening, no matter the year's it won't come.

so yes the game is a grift, a scam; and I am a fool and a idiot for buying into the early-access and I should be called every insult in the book, but so does the game Bannerlord and Taleworlds, for they underhanded every Mount and Blade fan before its dawn and gave us the very FRAUD we'll have now.

hope ya'll have a very good morning, we're all an inherently irrational species known as humans. .

Great analogy, it does make the situation we’re in painstakingly clear. But intent however is an important factor in this. Did they intent to release the advertised features or was it a marketing ploy to begin with? Did the features not get tested enough? Is it not possible, as they claim, to implement? Or did they drastically lower the bar for themselves? Do they just want to be done with it?

 

[Mad Vader]

Great analogy, it does make the situation we’re in painstakingly clear. But intent however is an important factor in this. Did they intent to release the advertised features or was it a marketing ploy to begin with? Did the features not get tested enough? Is it not possible, as they claim, to implement? Or did they drastically lower the bar for themselves? Do they just want to be done with it?

Well, that's easy, let's just see what they have to say about this instead of speculating about their motives.
Um... it appears that they said nothing despite being aware of the core fans' reaction and that in itself is a message: "we are guilty and can't be trusted".

They could have said something in the one-year recap, but chose self-fellatio instead. They could say something in the upcoming statement about the general future development of Bannerlord, but that's not coming soon, despite being promised in April. And you can bet they'll ignore this issue again in favor of unreliable musings about the glorious product future.

 

[Roy1012]

Great analogy, it does make the situation we’re in painstakingly clear. But intent however is an important factor in this. Did they intent to release the advertised features or was it a marketing ploy to begin with? Did the features not get tested enough? Is it not possible, as they claim, to implement? Or did they drastically lower the bar for themselves? Do they just want to be done with it?

Tbh I think it’s a bit of both. I don’t think if it is a grift it is a 100% grift (or in other words a scam, ie making a Kickstarter and just leaving with the money). While they want to make a game that is functional and enjoyable, profits come first for taleworlds and they will sideline the former for the latter. I think it is a drastic lowering of the bar, that is undeniable, just what is in question is why. I postulate profits and corporate greed.

 

[eddiemccandless]

I postulate that it's because a grumpy leprechaun told Armagan to start messing with his player base for kicks, and tbh anyone's guess is as good as a baked potato. We don't know what is going on, we know it's a mess, but we don't know why it's a mess, and there's really no point in making speculations. It is what it is.

 

[Life_Erikson]

I postulate that it's because a grumpy leprechaun told Armagan to start messing with his player base for kicks, and tbh anyone's guess is as good as a baked potato. We don't know what is going on, we know it's a mess, but we don't know why it's a mess, and there's really no point in making speculations. It is what it is.

I don't think so. At least to some degree we can make a few assumptions with certain accuracy.
The shift between a full strategy / sandbox experience (Warband) and quick paced action game (Bannerlord) is definitely there.
The constant war and quick battles make this pretty obvious. If this wasn't by design we wouldn't constantly get the answer: "this is not our view of what the game should be".
Also the constant "too complex" statements can be either interpreted as incompetence, impatience or once again a shift in design philosophy.

 

[eddiemccandless]

I don't think so. At least to some degree we can make a few assumptions with certain accuracy.
The shift between a full strategy / sandbox experience (Warband) and quick paced action game (Bannerlord) is definitely there.
The constant war and quick battles make this pretty obvious. If this wasn't by design we wouldn't constantly get the answer: "this is not our view of what the game should be".
Also the constant "too complex" statements can be either interpreted as incompetence, impatience or once again a shift in design philosophy.

Yes, and that is the mess I was talking about. What I find pointless is the talk about "corporate greed". This is not Amazon we are talking about. It's a gaming company that grew too fast and is showing all signs of not having any idea what it's doing. There is no big plot to screw the players over, and honestly it gets tiresome to see people build all sorts of elaborate card schemes in their head to offer an overcomplicated explanation for what can be more easily explained by sheer incompetence.

In any case, there is not a single thing that we can do about it, apart from keeping on pointing out everything that is wrong with the game, as pointless as even that might be.

 

[Lord Grindelvald]

Well, that's easy, let's just see what they have to say about this instead of speculating about their motives.
Um... it appears that they said nothing despite being aware of the core fans' reaction and that in itself is a message: "we are guilty and can't be trusted".

They could have said something in the one-year recap, but chose self-fellatio instead. They could say something in the upcoming statement about the general future development of Bannerlord, but that's not coming soon, despite being promised in April. And you can bet they'll ignore this issue again in favor of unreliable musings about the glorious product future.

They’ll ignore it till they no longer can.. The power lies not with us but with the modders. Taleworlds know the power of Warband was in the mods and that Bannerlord has shown the same potential, hence the emphasis on the variety of tools being developed for them. Which is also why they were so quick on their feet (relatively speaking) to change the internal blockades after several modders publicly threw in the towel.

Tbh I think it’s a bit of both. I don’t think if it is a grift it is a 100% grift (or in other words a scam, ie making a Kickstarter and just leaving with the money). While they want to make a game that is functional and enjoyable, profits come first for taleworlds and they will sideline the former for the latter. I think it is a drastic lowering of the bar, that is undeniable, just what is in question is why. I postulate profits and corporate greed.

But it’s penny wise pound foolish. They’re developing this engine to later use it in a multitude of games not limited to this genre and thus increase their reach. But if they lose the majority of the base before that..

 

[Roy1012]

But it’s penny wise pound foolish. They’re developing this engine to later use it in a multitude of games not limited to this genre and thus increase their reach. But if they lose the majority of the base before that..

The “they’re busy creating an engine” meme is kind of weak seeing as it does not take 10 years to do so. Not only that, but as seen by gameplay, the engine is finished, sure it could be improved upon, but come on. It’s not that hard.

 

[Namakan]

not gonna read everything posted here, but anyone still defending TaleWorlds not having custom servers after now 9 years of development, please read my signature. it's from 2018.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

The problem is that bannerlord is in general a lot more complicated than bannerlord, and slower in almost every regard. I recently did about 10 hours in bannerlord and warband back to back and the difference in pacing and complexity is massive. You can become a vassal in warband in about 2 hours, but in bannerlord it's more like 10 hours. The combat is the same, it's way faster and simpler in warband.

I think the consensus now is that there was no clear vision to the game. The complexity of bannerlord is mainly due to featurecreep, not a deliberate intended goal. The stuff that developers have said is "too complicated" is completely arbitrary and doesn't line up with how much complex stuff there already is in the game.

 

[Lord Grindelvald]

The “they’re busy creating an engine” meme is kind of weak seeing as it does not take 10 years to do so. Not only that, but as seen by gameplay, the engine is finished, sure it could be improved upon, but come on. It’s not that hard.

Cheers

The problem is that bannerlord is in general a lot more complicated than bannerlord, and slower in almost every regard. I recently did about 10 hours in bannerlord and warband back to back and the difference in pacing and complexity is massive. You can become a vassal in warband in about 2 hours, but in bannerlord it's more like 10 hours. The combat is the same, it's way faster and simpler in warband.

I think the consensus now is that there was no clear vision to the game. The complexity of bannerlord is mainly due to featurecreep, not a deliberate intended goal. The stuff that developers have said is "too complicated" is completely arbitrary and doesn't line up with how much complex stuff there already is in the game.

Yeah, there is nobody fulfilling the roll of generalist (CEO). Everyone’s a specialist, working their island.

There’s a deckhand scrubbing, one’s working the sails, a couple are simultaneously raising and lowering the anker while the captain is.. wait, do I see that correctly? Yes, he’s also scrubbing the deck. But then where’s this ****ing ship going?

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

On the contrary, from what I've heard armagan is a real micromanager, where every tiny decision has to go through him. But the problem is that he makes piecemeal "that would be cool" decisions without a wider plan.

 

[Lord Grindelvald]

On the contrary, from what I've heard armagan is a real micromanager, where every tiny decision has to go through him. But the problem is that he makes piecemeal "that would be cool" decisions without a wider plan.

That’s not a good thing. The company doesn’t need a manager steering the ship or deciding the course let alone a micromanager. It needs a big picture guy.

To stay in my ship sailing analogy: The CEO sets the destination. Management sets out the course. Middle-Management navigates and the workers make sure the ship gets there.
If there is no clear destination management doesnt know where to set the course too. So it guesses a couple of courses and just tries **** and see what sticks.

 

[Phantom425]

I think the consensus now is that there was no clear vision to the game. The complexity of bannerlord is mainly due to featurecreep, not a deliberate intended goal. The stuff that developers have said is "too complicated" is completely arbitrary and doesn't line up with how much complex stuff there already is in the game.

I think this could be the case. I think a lot of the stuff that they promised would be in the game is stuff that they really do plan on putting into the game, or at least wanted to at some point. And the "too complex" thing is kinda infuriating at times, given what modders have done. Pretty sure there is a fully functioning diplomacy mod at this point, something that isn't in the game.

Honestly, it would probably be in their best bet for TW to work with these modders to get this stuff into game, obviously with the modders being paid for their work.

 

[ShakenSpeare]

The problem is that bannerlord is in general a lot more complicated than bannerlord, and slower in almost every regard. I recently did about 10 hours in bannerlord and warband back to back and the difference in pacing and complexity is massive. You can become a vassal in warband in about 2 hours, but in bannerlord it's more like 10 hours. The combat is the same, it's way faster and simpler in warband.

I think the consensus now is that there was no clear vision to the game. The complexity of bannerlord is mainly due to featurecreep, not a deliberate intended goal. The stuff that developers have said is "too complicated" is completely arbitrary and doesn't line up with how much complex stuff there already is in the game.

A developer will probably pop in and applaud your statement and say: "Right on! The game is complex enough as it is! Any more complexity would be waaayyy too complex. This is exactly what we've been trying to say."

Weird thing though is that the game is complex in certain ways but much of the overall gameplay feels painfully simplistic where it counts even compared to Warband.

 

[Roy1012]

That’s not a good thing. The company doesn’t need a manager steering the ship or deciding the course let alone a micromanager. It needs a big picture guy.

To stay in my ship sailing analogy: The CEO sets the destination. Management sets out the course. Middle-Management navigates and the workers make sure the ship gets there.
If there is no clear destination management doesnt know where to set the course too. So it guesses a couple of courses and just tries **** and see what sticks.

Just keep throwing darts at a board! Eventually, it'll work!

not gonna read everything posted here, but anyone still defending TaleWorlds not having custom servers after now 9 years of development, please read my signature. it's from 2018.

That sentiment exactly. It's a ****ing joke. It's also a joke how they want to remove funding for private servers through donations for in game items/currencies, which is honestly ridiculous. They claim it's for "making it fair", but they're just butthurt transactions are being made and they aren't getting a cut. I guarantee that servers owners would be happy to ship over a portion of the donations for servers, although admittedly it would be impossible to enforce. Either way, another dumb decision by Taleworlds to screw over the player base.