Bannerlord was a grift

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Roy1012

Banned
That's "too complex" of an arrangement.

Yeah, modding seems to be the only avenue of hope here. It's just poor though to expect modders to fix everything while TW does nothing. I do have hopes though that the game can be very good with mods and surpass even modded Warband.
I’m not sure. Warband was a classic and the modders will need to work twice as hard if they want to win people over for bannerlord. Perhaps you are right that they have an opportunity to surpass warbands legacy, but barring Taleworlds allowing them to, it will be tough. It’s a new generation now keep in mind many from those days are gone working and off in the real world. Some are still here, but we will need good new blood to “keep the dream alive”.
 
I’m not sure. Warband was a classic and the modders will need to work twice as hard if they want to win people over for bannerlord. Perhaps you are right that they have an opportunity to surpass warbands legacy, but barring Taleworlds allowing them to, it will be tough. It’s a new generation now keep in mind many from those days are gone working and off in the real world. Some are still here, but we will need good new blood to “keep the dream alive”.
Yeah, the point about new blood and a new generation is something I haven't considered. I still think Bannerlord with mods surpassing Warband is possible but it certainly isn't a given. The potential for an amazing game is certainly very visible, and it's impressive what the modders have been already able to accomplish thus far.
 

Nodice83

Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
No, I haven't tried it in my life :wink: That would be ridiculous.
That's "too complex" of an arrangement.
Yet I couldn't find a better example of an arrangement to describe the situation. I am sure it will stabilize even more but so far we went through so much... so it is hard to predict the future. So the bottom line is: it is "too complex" and may not change very "soon" either :grin:
It's entirely possible that they could do something to put the game at a higher level, but I really don't trust them at this point. Modders need to do their work and show Taleworlds the way.
Exactly the case, they may somehow achieve this (or not). Too much of an unknown as for my taste. I must say I don't want and have no reason to judge them on a personal level. All developers seem to be very talented people, they are also honest in their work and occasional community interactions (some of them more often than the others). Their (Company's) leadership decisions are what I don't buy and find questionable. Modders if allowed will do what they do best and there is no shortage of dedicated and talented people in this field.
Yeah, modding seems to be the only avenue of hope here. It's just poor though to expect modders to fix everything while TW does nothing. I do have hopes though that the game can be very good with mods and surpass even modded Warband.
It will surpass it eventually - no doubts about it. Code itself (i just quote what experts here say) isn't that difficult and the use of a modern engine will allow any future content to shine.
 

Roy1012

Banned
Yeah, the point about new blood and a new generation is something I haven't considered. I still think Bannerlord with mods surpassing Warband is possible but it certainly isn't a given. The potential for an amazing game is certainly very visible, and it's impressive what the modders have been already able to accomplish thus far.
It's honestly surprising what they have done so far despite the refusal of Taleworlds to help. Bannerlord Online, despite its faults, was/is brilliant. The amount that one guy with a small team did, with the limitations of Bannerlord currently, is insane. This is the kind of ingenuity which made Warband great, and what Taleworlds discourages today. My question is: Why? Are they so proud that they refuse to allow multiplayer mods to come out because they think their game is perfect? News flash: it's not. I just can't understand their reasoning.
 

Phantom425

Sergeant
It's honestly surprising what they have done so far despite the refusal of Taleworlds to help. Bannerlord Online, despite its faults, was/is brilliant. The amount that one guy with a small team did, with the limitations of Bannerlord currently, is insane. This is the kind of ingenuity which made Warband great, and what Taleworlds discourages today. My question is: Why? Are they so proud that they refuse to allow multiplayer mods to come out because they think their game is perfect? News flash: it's not. I just can't understand their reasoning.
Well, TW can't help mods yet. Support for mods will probably come more so following release, and they have already started working on bettering the conditions of modders. It isn't perfect yet, but I wouldn't say that TW is refusing to help out modders, and they are far from discouraging it. Discouraging would be sending cease and desist letters to modders, not lowering the amount of restrictions in the code.

And I really don't think they're proud, they're focusing on other things. They have already stated that Private Servers are going to be coming, just not right now.
 

Danny5

Squire
If TW's sees the modding can manage to fix the game and improves its overall gameplay, then why should they continue adding more "complex" features or fixing bugs, that the modding community can do?
 

Roy1012

Banned
If TW's sees the modding can manage to fix the game and improves its overall gameplay, then why should they continue adding more "complex" features or fixing bugs, that the modding community can do?
I always found this criticism (which someone brought up a few pages ago, after debunking it, he stopped responding). I like playing native (I am on US GK TDM right now for siege night). I also like mods, from full invasion to NW to PW. I can both want an improved native and mods at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive.

Well, TW can't help mods yet. Support for mods will probably come more so following release, and they have already started working on bettering the conditions of modders. It isn't perfect yet, but I wouldn't say that TW is refusing to help out modders, and they are far from discouraging it. Discouraging would be sending cease and desist letters to modders, not lowering the amount of restrictions in the code.

And I really don't think they're proud, they're focusing on other things. They have already stated that Private Servers are going to be coming, just not right now.
I suppose that just kicks the can down the road/begs the question: when will the release happen? To answer the question "When will private servers be supported?" with "when the game is fully released" gives me no helpful information. Certainly sending cease/desist letters to modders would be far more antagonistic, but their "doing nothing" is certainly a "something". Good example from the Borgias is when Florence "does nothing" about foreign armies marching through their territory, this is, in effect, a something (granting military access), despite the act of doing nothing. It's a bit of a weak meme to say otherwise.
 

Phantom425

Sergeant
I suppose that just kicks the can down the road/begs the question: when will the release happen? To answer the question "When will private servers be supported?" with "when the game is fully released" gives me no helpful information. Certainly sending cease/desist letters to modders would be far more antagonistic, but their "doing nothing" is certainly a "something". Good example from the Borgias is when Florence "does nothing" about foreign armies marching through their territory, this is, in effect, a something (granting military access), despite the act of doing nothing. It's a bit of a weak meme to say otherwise.
Except I never stated that the answer to when private servers will be released only when the game is fully release. Private servers will come when private servers come, and there isn't much we can do until they are released. However, they have stated that private servers will be coming at some point.

And, beyond me disagreeing with the statement of them doing nothing is saying something, they are very clearly not doing nothing. Patch 1.6.0 did expand what modders could do with the game, that is very much something. If 1.6.0 came and went with nothing being changed, you would have a point about them doing nothing, except that simply is not true. And your analogy of Florence doing nothing is faulty, because granting military access is something.
 

julijs

Sergeant
WBNWVC
I wanted a Big Mac, with 2 100% beef patties and a slice of cheese, lettuce. onion and pickles as advertised on the menu, but it only came with 1 beef patty that was only 50% beef. I was outraged, but I understand mistakes happen, so I went back and asked for the Big Mac I ordered. however to my disbelief the employee behind the table told me it was no longer in their vision to serve Big Mac, as it no longer went along their idea of a McDonalds menu, either through sheer laziness or complete deceit for my money, I was taken advantage of and lied to.

But it's okay, the employee told me that instead I could be compensated with a cheese burger. So in the end what I got was 1 beef patty and a slice of cheese, instead of the 2 beef patties, lettuce, pickles and onions; and all for the price of a Big Mac.

Moral of the story is, Taleworld's advertised the game of our dreams with all the content and direction we all wanted, but in the end somewhere along the lines they decided that it was no longer apart of their plan and changed course to give way for a lesser version of Bannerlord after they received all their money and positive light.

So yes, you may hurl your insults at us and call us fools for buying into an early access, and bear its spineless shield against criticism, But if at any moment you think we're on a childish fiery warpath against Taleworld's utter slow development of the game in a "Early Access" title. and your only ingenious solution
is "wait, it's still in early access, it will come" then no.

I'm not saying we're not angry at the snails pace of development, because we are, but the REAL issue is that they're no longer giving us what they promoted in their dev-blogs and previous statements. so no "it will come soon" is not right, because it's not coming, we'd all be fine if it took them a few more years to give us what we wanted, because after all we've already waited 8 years, a few more wont hurt. But what they wanted to give us initially, and what we should've got when we purchased this game; they have stated as such in many threads that it is NOT happening, no matter the year's it won't come.

so yes the game is a grift, a scam; and I am a fool and a idiot for buying into the early-access and I should be called every insult in the book, but so does the game Bannerlord and Taleworlds, for they underhanded every Mount and Blade fan before its dawn and gave us the very FRAUD we'll have now.

hope ya'll have a very good morning, we're all an inherently irrational species known as humans. .
 

Roy1012

Banned
Except I never stated that the answer to when private servers will be released only when the game is fully release. Private servers will come when private servers come, and there isn't much we can do until they are released. However, they have stated that private servers will be coming at some point.

And, beyond me disagreeing with the statement of them doing nothing is saying something, they are very clearly not doing nothing. Patch 1.6.0 did expand what modders could do with the game, that is very much something. If 1.6.0 came and went with nothing being changed, you would have a point about them doing nothing, except that simply is not true. And your analogy of Florence doing nothing is faulty, because granting military access is something.
The point about private servers is that they mentioned that they will be releasing them upon the release of the game, you mentioned this in your post I quoted. As for the military access thing, you completely misunderstand: my point was that florence never granted such, but because they did nothing in the face of foreign armies marching through their territory, they effectively did so. So too does Taleworlds with modding; by doing nothing to support multiplayer mods, they are in effect discouraging them.
 

Phantom425

Sergeant
The point about private servers is that they mentioned that they will be releasing them upon the release of the game, you mentioned this in your post I quoted. As for the military access thing, you completely misunderstand: my point was that florence never granted such, but because they did nothing in the face of foreign armies marching through their territory, they effectively did so. So too does Taleworlds with modding; by doing nothing to support multiplayer mods, they are in effect discouraging them.
Thank you for correcting me on the private servers aspect, I was not aware of that. However, my point does still stand that they have said that private servers are coming. All we can do until they release them is to be patient.

And for multiplayer mods, yeah they have been a little lackluster, however I don't think that they have been discouraging them just by doing nothing. Doing nothing does not mean discouraging in all cases, and this really isn't one of them. The more realistic answer I think is that they simply haven't had the time to focus on that aspect, however important one may think it is for the survival for M&B.
 

Roy1012

Banned
Thank you for correcting me on the private servers aspect, I was not aware of that. However, my point does still stand that they have said that private servers are coming. All we can do until they release them is to be patient.
That still deosn't answer the question of when, which is all that many of us care about. "Being patient" is a dumb excuse seeing as we've been waiting a decade.
And for multiplayer mods, yeah they have been a little lackluster, however I don't think that they have been discouraging them just by doing nothing. Doing nothing does not mean discouraging in all cases, and this really isn't one of them. The more realistic answer I think is that they simply haven't had the time to focus on that aspect, however important one may think it is for the survival for M&B.
I don't know how involved and farmiliar you are with how multiplayer mods work, however overhaul mods (or any multiplayer mod that affects anything aside from very small, minute details) require multiplayer servers in order to work (duh), and thus can not progress at all until multiplayer servers are available to be made. I don't know if you are aware of the open letter signed by over a dozen of the mod teams for prospective mutliplayer mods (Full invasion, gunpowder mod, pw, kingdoms of arda, etc.) which begged taleworlds to do something to allow them to make their mods. By not releasing the private servers, they are 100% stymying and blocking modders from doing anything.
 

Phantom425

Sergeant
That still deosn't answer the question of when, which is all that many of us care about. "Being patient" is a dumb excuse seeing as we've been waiting a decade.
Except it isn't an excuse. I am telling you that you literally have to be patient and wait for Private Servers to release. Given that TW has stated that they are not coming yet, we have to wait. Making noise about this issue will not do anything, as they are already going to be adding them just not right now. The only thing that we can do is be patient until they release.
I don't know how involved and farmiliar you are with how multiplayer mods work, however overhaul mods (or any multiplayer mod that affects anything aside from very small, minute details) require multiplayer servers in order to work (duh), and thus can not progress at all until multiplayer servers are available to be made. I don't know if you are aware of the open letter signed by over a dozen of the mod teams for prospective mutliplayer mods (Full invasion, gunpowder mod, pw, kingdoms of arda, etc.) which begged taleworlds to do something to allow them to make their mods. By not releasing the private servers, they are 100% stymying and blocking modders from doing anything.
I'm well aware of the open letter.

I am at a loss for how overhaul mods require multiplayer in order to continue working. In the open letter, there is no mention of private servers or any change to the multiplayer. While yes, those multiplayer mods obviously need private servers in order to continue, the open letter dealt with the actual code, not multiplayer. So, no, the statement that they are blocking modders from doing anything by not releasing private servers, again, something that they had said they will be doing down the road, is completely false. TW is working to better the situation for modders, as slow as it is, and Jance did say that the response from TW was a good start. More work needs to be done, but they are not stymying and blocking modders from doing anything. And if they were, the response from modders, disregarding Bloc, would be far more negative.
 

Roy1012

Banned
Except it isn't an excuse. I am telling you that you literally have to be patient and wait for Private Servers to release. Given that TW has stated that they are not coming yet, we have to wait. Making noise about this issue will not do anything, as they are already going to be adding them just not right now. The only thing that we can do is be patient until they release.
My point is that saying "the private servers will come out when the game is released" gives us zero information about it, just that it will be released when the game comes out. It would be like answering the question of "When will you go to the supermarket?" with "When I leave the house". It conveys no real new information.
I'm well aware of the open letter.

I am at a loss for how overhaul mods require multiplayer in order to continue working. In the open letter, there is no mention of private servers or any change to the multiplayer. While yes, those multiplayer mods obviously need private servers in order to continue, the open letter dealt with the actual code, not multiplayer. So, no, the statement that they are blocking modders from doing anything by not releasing private servers, again, something that they had said they will be doing down the road, is completely false. TW is working to better the situation for modders, as slow as it is, and Jance did say that the response from TW was a good start. More work needs to be done, but they are not stymying and blocking modders from doing anything. And if they were, the response from modders, disregarding Bloc, would be far more negative.
Let me explain it in simpler terms you will understand. I am not sure how familiar you are with how multiplayer mods work. When you load up the game, you select the module/mods you would like to play and then the software loads them. In order to play them (unless they also come with a singleplayer component), they must be played on multiplayer. If multiplayer servers are not capable of being made, the multiplayer mods will not have any content (again, barring a singleplayer component). Thus, many modders, aside from the coding block issues, do not wish to work on mods until the multiplayer servers are permitted, see this thread as an example of bellyaching in this regard. It would be like working on a car when there are no roads to drive on, it's worthless.
 

Phantom425

Sergeant
My point is that saying "the private servers will come out when the game is released" gives us zero information about it, just that it will be released when the game comes out. It would be like answering the question of "When will you go to the supermarket?" with "When I leave the house". It conveys no real new information.
Except they have given promises before and have struggled to keep them. At this point, it is better to wait for them to be certain for when it will be ready and then let everyone know. Making less promises is genuinely better for this community. Private servers will be ready when private servers are ready.
Let me explain it in simpler terms you will understand. I am not sure how familiar you are with how multiplayer mods work. When you load up the game, you select the module/mods you would like to play and then the software loads them. In order to play them (unless they also come with a singleplayer component), they must be played on multiplayer. If multiplayer servers are not capable of being made, the multiplayer mods will not have any content (again, barring a singleplayer component). Thus, many modders, aside from the coding block issues, do not wish to work on mods until the multiplayer servers are permitted, see this thread as an example of bellyaching in this regard. It would be like working on a car when there are no roads to drive on, it's worthless.
Yeah, obviously multiplayer mods cannot work until private servers and custom servers are made available. However, you never once specified multiplayer mods. You continued to simply state that TW is doing nothing for modders, which is simply not true. While yes, multiplayer mods are being stopped due to a lack of custom servers, my disagreement comes from that statement. The modding situation isn't perfect, however it is not as bleak as TW simply doing nothing.

TW has made it clear that private servers are a ways away, and until then, to repeat what I said earlier, all we can do is be patient and wait for them to release it. It would be another story if they hadn't even confirmed if private servers are going to be coming. If they had not been confirmed, then there would be good reason to be making a lot of noise over it. However, given that they said that they will be coming, there isn't really much that we can do until then.
 

Mad Vader

Duhpressed
Duke
M&BWB
TW has made it clear that private servers are a ways away, and until then, to repeat what I said earlier, all we can do is be patient and wait for them to release it. It would be another story if they hadn't even confirmed if private servers are going to be coming. If they had not been confirmed, then there would be good reason to be making a lot of noise over it. However, given that they said that they will be coming, there isn't really much that we can do until then.
There is also some context here. The MP scene is practically dead at the moment. A simple way to revive it and keep it going is to release custom servers right now, which the MP guys have been saying all along and keep saying it. Does TW value retaining some kind of a MP scene or do they expect veteran MP players and event and clan organizers to sit on their RGB gaming chairs like idiots and wait for them?
There's not even a commitment when they will be released, there's only a vague "some time after the release". How soon after the release? When is this release (Q4 at the moment, no guarantee it won't be postponed again)?
If you are a MP modder and are itching to start the real work on a MP mod, you need to know these things, or you may think they'll just sit on this indefinitely and they are wasting your time by their lack of timely action. A rational decision would be to give up.
 

TFK_Ted

Squire
If you are a MP modder and are itching to start the real work on a MP mod, you need to know these things, or you may think they'll just sit on this indefinitely and they are wasting your time by their lack of timely action. A rational decision would be to give up.
That's exactly what's happening. Many have already abandoned work, many will follow, and quite frankly, I expect that many won't come back, simply because there is no reason to spend our FREE time fixing this ****hole for a company who apparently doesn't want to allow us to do so anyways. They are wasting our time. And that's not just MP, that's SP too. If Taleworlds doesn't release the stuff we need, and doesn't even tell us why, then the only thing I can think of at this point is that they either don't care or are too incompetent to care. There really is not that much left motivating modders to fix this mess. People like Phantom acting all superior and "be patient111!11!" along the way don't help either.

Oh btw, @Phantom425 , go on, waste some more of your time by "having the last word", as you always want to do that anyways.


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Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
How the whole MP affair has been handled in Bannerlord will be remembered in the annals as a truly unique case of study. For those who didn't give a **** about this situation, they have long gone; however for many veterans we can feel nothing but heartbreak seeing that dead and rotting horse on the ground.

Personally I was very interested in Marko's project, Twilight of Chivalry. I guess Marko seeing that desert to wander through for an uncertain period, with no tools and no support, the best he could do was to cancel it; what was he going to do all this time?

Well, like him, there were many...

@TFK_Ted
1xJqw.gif
 
Oh btw, @Phantom425 , go on, waste some more of your time by "having the last word", as you always want to do that anyways.
I have barely been active on the forum lately.

But like a month ago I seem to remember this guy was doing this then. I see he hasn't stopped trying to defend TW since then.
Have to admire the dedication.

For me yeah this game is not improving. At least I do not see it becoming a true sequel to Warband. It's very disappointing :sad:
 

Marko͘

Section Moderator
WBNWM&BWF&SVC
How the whole MP affair has been handled in Bannerlord will be remembered in the annals as a truly unique case of study. For those who didn't give a **** about this situation, they have long gone; however for many veterans we can feel nothing but heartbreak seeing that dead and rotting horse on the ground.

Personally I was very interested in Marko's project, Twilight of Chivalry. I guess Marko seeing that desert to wander through for an uncertain period, with no tools and no support, the best he could do was to cancel it; what was he going to do all this time?

Well, like him, there were many...
The MP side of the game has no perspective after being butchered for a couple years now and we concluded commiting to another huge MP mod was a waste of our time. Unfortunate, but it is what it is.
 
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