Bannerlord was a grift

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Phantom425

Sergeant
Ah yes, the THOUSANDS, no TENS of THOUSANDS people playing MP every day. It's such a great LONGTERM success!!!!

You are delusional. And, quite frankly, I don't even blame you, after having looked at your join-date that is. We have waited over ten years, heck it's practically a generation at this point. So please, feel free to wait a little bit longer without critique.
Tens of thousands of people play the singleplayer everyday. I’ve spoken in the past about multiplayer, and while that area of the game is in really bad shape following neglect, the singleplayer still does well. While the multiplayer may be dead for the time being, the game is still a success.

And I won’t wait longer for critque. This isn’t some gentleman’s clud, where you have to wait years to gain access, I can form opinions on whatever I see fit. It doesn’t matter how long someone has been waiting for BL, my criticisms, whatever they are, will always be the same. Just because you waited a long time does not mean you have a monopoly on being able to voice your opinions on BL.
 
Tens of thousands of people play the singleplayer everyday. I’ve spoken in the past about multiplayer, and while that area of the game is in really bad shape following neglect, the singleplayer still does well. While the multiplayer may be dead for the time being, the game is still a success.

And I won’t wait longer for critque. This isn’t some gentleman’s clud, where you have to wait years to gain access, I can form opinions on whatever I see fit. It doesn’t matter how long someone has been waiting for BL, my criticisms, whatever they are, will always be the same. Just because you waited a long time does not mean you have a monopoly on being able to voice your opinions on BL.
You joined the forum this month and became a regular just by defending your POV on this thread. I applaud your steadfastness.
 
And I won’t wait longer for critque. This isn’t some gentleman’s clud, where you have to wait years to gain access, I can form opinions on whatever I see fit. It doesn’t matter how long someone has been waiting for BL, my criticisms, whatever they are, will always be the same. Just because you waited a long time does not mean you have a monopoly on being able to voice your opinions on BL.
Mature people are not mature because of age, but because of years of experience. Years of experience with dealing with Taleworlds are definitely worth more than "I played the game and I liked it, why is everyone so upset" level of experience.
There's a long list of poor moves by Taleworlds over the years and even now, that are valuable experience because it gives you the context to predict what they'll do next. This is why you are so optimistic about the release state of Bannerlord and veterans aren't. Opinions based on blind faith are not worth much.
 
Tens of thousands of people play the singleplayer everyday. I’ve spoken in the past about multiplayer, and while that area of the game is in really bad shape following neglect, the singleplayer still does well. While the multiplayer may be dead for the time being, the game is still a success.

And I won’t wait longer for critque. This isn’t some gentleman’s clud, where you have to wait years to gain access, I can form opinions on whatever I see fit. It doesn’t matter how long someone has been waiting for BL, my criticisms, whatever they are, will always be the same. Just because you waited a long time does not mean you have a monopoly on being able to voice your opinions on BL.
It doesn’t mean that, but it does mean they are worth more and hold more water. Someone who has been waiting 10 years has a far better understanding of the situation than someone who just got here. The person who just got heres opinion isn’t invalid, but it doesn’t hold nearly as much weight.
 
Imagine waiting a decade for a game that everyone told you would be the most amazing thing ever made... only for it to be mediocre and worse than previous, similar, experiences. Except most of us don't have to imagine it.
 

Phantom425

Sergeant
Mature people are not mature because of age, but because of years of experience. Years of experience with dealing with Taleworlds are definitely worth more than "I played the game and I liked it, why is everyone so upset" level of experience.
There's a long list of poor moves by Taleworlds over the years and even now, that are valuable experience because it gives you the context to predict what they'll do next. This is why you are so optimistic about the release state of Bannerlord and veterans aren't. Opinions based on blind faith are not worth much.
Yeah, people do mature because of their years of experience. I know that I am not the same person that I was last year do to the experiences over the course of the year and definitely not the same person I was 10 years ago. A lot of people here have negative experiences with TW, that is undeniable, however my opinions are not based on blind faith. If the game sucks, the game sucks, however I don't think that the game in its current state and the state of affairs with TW is that dire. While your experience is with TW, I have experiences with other series that have just died. Arma 4 is never going to come out, and the devs have even been partially bought out by Tencent, Dawn of War 3 was abandoned by its devs following a massive backlash on its launch meaning that the series is practically dead, and Just Cause 4 was a massive let down in comparison to 3, a game series that was basically the first game that I have ever been into. I've been blackpilled before, however seeing the situation that BL is currently in, I disagree with the fact that this game is in dire straights. While the game is far from perfect, and a lot will have to be done in order to realize this games potential, I don't think that it is time to give up any hope on this game.
It doesn’t mean that, but it does mean they are worth more and hold more water. Someone who has been waiting 10 years has a far better understanding of the situation than someone who just got here. The person who just got heres opinion isn’t invalid, but it doesn’t hold nearly as much weight.
No, they don't. And they especially don't when that status of being a veteran is used as an argument to get others to shut up. I respect the experience, however I disagree. There is a reason as to why in my posts I've never said that TW is going to make the game a perfect 10/10 overnight, I've always stated that it will take a long amount of time. I don't have blind faith that in the next few months the game will be perfect with no bugs, no, it will take probably another year to come out. The difference in viewpoints between most of the people here and myself is that I am perfectly fine with waiting that amount of time if it means that there is a better product in the end. I'm not going to brigade for review bombing or try to black pill the uninformed, unwashed masses who still play this game, I'll simply wait. There are other games to play, and when I want to play BL, I will play BL.
Imagine waiting a decade for a game that everyone told you would be the most amazing thing ever made... only for it to be mediocre and worse than previous, similar, experiences. Except most of us don't have to imagine it.
Yeah, I can totally get that, I really can, but I feel as if that initial disappointment is blinding some actions today. Some people are way to inflammatory for what is worth, and I feel as if that does more harm then good. The community should give pushback and keep TW in check so that they never lose sight of the end goal. That is why I don't really argue with threads that are laying out what people want in the game, or actual criticism, because I agree with that. What I disagree is with people being needlessly angry. While one can be disappointed, annoyed, and even angry, there are better ways to use those emotions that what I've seen be done on this forum. Even the 1.6.0 patch, the change happened with a professional letter, and for those that don't believe that's what caused the change a professional later response by Jance brought the topic back up with got a dev response. Being polite, professional, and coordinated can get a lot of change done for this game.

And a month isn't that long to argue when it comes to a game that I do have some hope for. I've been blackpilled before, I don't want it to happen again.
 

Ruthven

Baron
WBM&BVC
Warband was like that local restaurant that sort of looks like hell but had amazing food. The chairs were mismatched and rickety, the presentation was awful, the portion sizes were maybe a bit too big, but it was delicious food you couldn't get anywhere else...

Then in BL they relaunched the restaurant. Fancier decor, a more modern looking front and menu, better plates and nice garnishes... But even though a lot of the same stuff is on the menu, why has the quality gone down? You get some extra side dishes or free breadsticks or something, but hey my main course is sort of lukewarm. The new stuff is nice but can you throw this on the heat again?

At the old place you used to be able to show up, have a great meal, and hang out at your table for hours with all your friends, now you get kicked out every 20-30 mins and have to be seated again if you want to eat more (sometimes you didn't even finish your plate the first time) and it's hard to see how many people are even in here with the way these booths are set up. When you ask about it you hear "Yes we know this is an issue, but it's hard to fix with the way we set up our tables" ... It begs the question, then why did you set it up like that in the first place?

It's the same owners in the back cooking away, but they never come out front to greet people like they used to, and what happened to the old waitstaff? When you ask about the new changes, future plans, you hear things like "we will now place the garnish on the side instead of on top" or "we will increase the amount of carrots in the soup by 10g"... But when do you bring back that amazing rice you guys used to have? When do we get to try those koftas you mentioned on your social media when the new place was being built..?

I don't think it's fair to say BL was a grift (and you should never take out your anger on the waiters/line cooks), but I can hardly blame anyone for choosing to go back to the old place - yes maybe it's worse in just about every way - but the food itself was simpler, and tasted better for it.

edit: to keep the analogy going
New customers seem to like the new place fine, and that's good. It's not terrible. But they hear complaints from fans of the old place and then say things like "Of course they know the food should come out hot and well cooked, I'm sure they will get on that bit right away" - it's not much of an argument.
 
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How can you believe that? If experience means nothing, arguments cannot really hold weight. Are you going to tell me that someone who has been playing the game for an hour really has the same and as valid perspective as someone who has played for a year? And him to a person who has played for ten? That just doesn’t make any sense because obviously they do not have the same understanding and nuance as others.
 

Phantom425

Sergeant
How can you believe that? If experience means nothing, arguments cannot really hold weight. Are you going to tell me that someone who has been playing the game for an hour really has the same and as valid perspective as someone who has played for a year? And him to a person who has played for ten? That just doesn’t make any sense because obviously they do not have the same understanding and nuance as others.
Experience means something, but not when it is used just to shut someone up. I have experience with other games that have gone to crap, and knowing form those experiences I can safely say that this is not that same situation. And no, a person who has played for an hour does not have the same experience as someone who has played for ten years, but that's not what I said, did I. As someone who has been playing for years, just not ten, I have just as valid of an experienced as someone who has played for the whole decade. And someone who has played 60 hours in BL will also have a valid experience when coming to BL as someone who playing WB for thousands of hours. If you only listen to the mega fans, those who take the game really seriously, you will miss the causal fans viewpoint. That's bad, that's when you get e-sports pros dictating what should and should not be in a game based on whether or not it is competitive, not if its is fun. Now, BL isn't that example exactly, it would have to have a populated multiplayer first, but just listening to the top 1% of the players is stupid.

I'm not going to be told for the fiftieth time that I am wrong solely because I haven't played as long as others. From this point on, if someone uses that argument, I'm just gonna assume that they don't actually have a good counter-point to make and conceded the argument. I've acknowledged that people have more experience then me, and I still disagree with them. I'm not going to cow-tow to everything a veteran says.
 

TFK_Ted

Squire
Experience means something, but not when it is used just to shut someone up. I have experience with other games that have gone to crap, and knowing form those experiences I can safely say that this is not that same situation. And no, a person who has played for an hour does not have the same experience as someone who has played for ten years, but that's not what I said, did I. As someone who has been playing for years, just not ten, I have just as valid of an experienced as someone who has played for the whole decade. And someone who has played 60 hours in BL will also have a valid experience when coming to BL as someone who playing WB for thousands of hours. If you only listen to the mega fans, those who take the game really seriously, you will miss the causal fans viewpoint. That's bad, that's when you get e-sports pros dictating what should and should not be in a game based on whether or not it is competitive, not if its is fun. Now, BL isn't that example exactly, it would have to have a populated multiplayer first, but just listening to the top 1% of the players is stupid.

I'm not going to be told for the fiftieth time that I am wrong solely because I haven't played as long as others. From this point on, if someone uses that argument, I'm just gonna assume that they don't actually have a good counter-point to make and conceded the argument. I've acknowledged that people have more experience then me, and I still disagree with them. I'm not going to cow-tow to everything a veteran says.
I am not telling you you are wrong because you haven't played as long, I (and the others, making this a "we") am telling you that you are wrong because everything you say here has been said YEARS before you said it, and been proven wrong all the time. How many people do you think have been here over the years, claiming "HAVE FAITH IT WILL BE DONE IN A YEAR" and disappeared? So feel free to wait for however long you want, it will not change how this game and this company works. You can keep telling yourself the earth is flat, yet it's round. You are perfectly fine to have that opinion and believe the earth to be flat, but we are perfectly fine to tell you it's not the case. Cheeriyo, have a nice life, looking forward to hearing from you again in a year when
I don't have blind faith that in the next few months the game will be perfect with no bugs, no, it will take probably another year to come out



Meanwhile, have fun playing the mods that kept Warband alive for years, which were created by these grumpy ol' veterans.


Warband was like that local restaurant that sort of looks like hell but had amazing food. The chairs were mismatched and rickety, the presentation was awful, the portion sizes were maybe a bit too big, but it was delicious food you couldn't get anywhere else...

Then in BL they relaunched the restaurant. Fancier decor, a more modern looking front and menu, better plates and nice garnishes... But even though a lot of the same stuff is on the menu, why has the quality gone down? You get some extra side dishes or free breadsticks or something, but hey my main course is sort of lukewarm. The new stuff is nice but can you throw this on the heat again?

At the old place you used to be able to show up, have a great meal, and hang out at your table for hours with all your friends, now you get kicked out every 20-30 mins and have to be seated again if you want to eat more (sometimes you didn't even finish your plate the first time) and it's hard to see how many people are even in here with the way these booths are set up. When you ask about it you hear "Yes we know this is an issue, but it's hard to fix with the way we set up our tables" ... It begs the question, then why did you set it up like that in the first place?

It's the same owners in the back cooking away, but they never come out front to greet people like they used to, and what happened to the old waitstaff? When you ask about the new changes, future plans, you hear things like "we will now place the garnish on the side instead of on top" or "we will increase the amount of carrots in the soup by 10g"... But when do you bring back that amazing rice you guys used to have? When do we get to try those koftas you mentioned on your social media when the new place was being built..?

I don't think it's fair to say BL was a grift (and you should never take out your anger on the waiters/line cooks), but I can hardly blame anyone for choosing to go back to the old place - yes maybe it's worse in just about every way - but the food itself was simpler, and tasted better for it.

edit: to keep the analogy going
New customers seem to like the new place fine, and that's good. It's not terrible. But they hear complaints from fans of the old place and then say things like "Of course they know the food should come out hot and well cooked, I'm sure they will get on that bit right away" - it's not much of an argument.

Great metaphor.
 

Phantom425

Sergeant
I am not telling you you are wrong because you haven't played as long, I (and the others, making this a "we") am telling you that you are wrong because everything you say here has been said YEARS before you said it, and been proven wrong all the time. How many people do you think have been here over the years, claiming "HAVE FAITH IT WILL BE DONE IN A YEAR" and disappeared? So feel free to wait for however long you want, it will not change how this game and this company works. You can keep telling yourself the earth is flat, yet it's round. You are perfectly fine to have that opinion and believe the earth to be flat, but we are perfectly fine to tell you it's not the case. Cheeriyo, have a nice life, looking forward to hearing from you again in a year when
And I've always disagreed with them. Everytime I disagree with people that point is brought up, that I'm new to the forums. I've been through EA cycles before, and I know that this is how games tend to be, in buggy states such as this. This is your average EA game. It will take a year or more to fully come out, but when it does I do believe that it will be better for it. And I have yet to be proven wrong, if I'm being quite frank. I was right about waiting for 1.6.0, and a lot of you veterans were wrong about that. No one is infallible, and you all could be just as wrong as I could be. This isn't a matter as black and white as the Earth being flat or not. You and people who hold that belief can still delude yourselves into taking the blackpill all you want, the game will be ready when it is ready, and I am fine to wait for that time.

And there is a reason why I've never touted "have faith". I've stated logically why I believe that the game will improve, and so far it has been. Features are being added, even at the snail's pace currently, however conditions haven't been the greatest over the past year, as Mexxico has pointed out. If there was any year to release an EA, 2020 was not the year to do it. So, we'll see what comes in the future. I do hope to be correct, as that means that the game will be in a better place, but I very well could be wrong. However, I will still refuse to take the blackpill, as I've already taken that far too many times.
 

Bjorn The Hound

Grandmaster Knight
WBVCNWWF&SM&B
Leave this discussion to time. Phanthom245 is discussing the same thing for 11 pages. If the evidence of "after 8 years of development and there are still missing features from Warband and devblogs" is not enough for him, I don't know what is. I mean some people here saw this shiitstorm coming when Armagan said the game will be released as EA. I was naive back then and hopeful. Now look at me. :smile:

I would be overjoyed if TW prove veterans wrong but I am not getting my expectations high over nothing.
 

Nodice83

Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
Mature people are not mature because of age, but because of years of experience. Years of experience with dealing with Taleworlds are definitely worth more than "I played the game and I liked it, why is everyone so upset" level of experience.
There's a long list of poor moves by Taleworlds over the years and even now, that are valuable experience because it gives you the context to predict what they'll do next. This is why you are so optimistic about the release state of Bannerlord and veterans aren't. Opinions based on blind faith are not worth much.
Is there any way to send this as a greeting message to all newbies before they will choose arselickers' path? Some souls may be saved...
 

Phantom425

Sergeant
Leave this discussion to time. Phanthom245 is discussing the same thing for 11 pages.
I respond when people respond to what I say. I'm not one to not have the final word on something. But, leaving this discussion to time is the best bet.
Is there any way to send this as a greeting message to all newbies before they will choose arselickers' path? Some souls may be saved...
I wish...
Some people will always support TW and some people will just not, just going that "We've been here longer so we know more so shut up" will not really be a great argument in terms of getting people to come to your side.
 

Nodice83

Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
Some people will always support TW and some people will just not, just going that "We've been here longer so we know more so shut up" will not really be a great argument in terms of getting people to come to your side.
It's the same when you meet your "special one" in life. At first, you won't let anybody say anything wrong about him/her... You see no other truth but the one and only that is in your head. But the longer you stay together the more flaws will become apparent. You will become aware. You may as well start criticizing the very person you defended so much. Guess how upset you will become when he/she lies to you or cheat on you. All this does not necessarily mean you don't love or care about him/her.

MadVader was as precise and polite as he can be - It is all about experience and time. Give yourself time to experience.
 
It's the same when you meet your "special one" in life. At first, you won't let anybody say anything wrong about him/her... You see no other truth but the one and only that is in your head. But the longer you stay together the more flaws will become apparent. You will become aware. You may as well start criticizing the very person you defended so much. Guess how upset you will become when he/she lies to you or cheat on you. All this does not necessarily mean you don't love or care about him/her.
This is obviously a bait for a Terco homoerotic post. :smile:
We are running low on analogies, we had cooking food, buying cars, opening restaurants, now it's love and relationships.
I respond when people respond to what I say. I'm not one to not have the final word on something. But, leaving this discussion to time is the best bet.
Before you go on a vacation at White Knight Resorts, one last word. The best way to prepare yourself psychologically for the Bannerlord release is to imagine Armagan, Callum and most other TW employees dancing around a pyre of your hopes and dreams.
 

Nodice83

Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
Before you go on a vacation at White Knight Resorts, one last word. The best way to prepare yourself psychologically for the Bannerlord release is to imagine Armagan, Callum and most other TW employees dancing around a pyre of your hopes and dreams.
And you call my deepest love analogy a bait for homoerotic post/meme...
 
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