Bannerlord was a grift

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Except there was never a promised release date of 2015 so I want some of what you're smoking kid.
Do you even know what release dates were promised or are you just guessing?
You've been less than two days here and telling people they are dumb. Why do you do this and what do you know that other people don't?
This isn't 4Chan, don't need to use those terms. And that's kinda always been what I'm waiting for, release.
It's "newbies" if you are not a chanspawn. :smile:
 
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vonbalt

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVCM&B
Except there was never a promised release date of 2015 so I want some of what you're smoking kid.
You are right, it was 2016 instead of 2015, they announced the game needed some polishing still but they hoped to release it in someform (be it ea or full release) by the end of that year and only delayed for 4 more years.

No big deal most of us said, they will use this time to polish the remaining problems of the game and we'll get a better experience only for the game to release in 2020 with less content than showed 4 years prior and still unbalanced and full of bugs (many gamebreaking ones like sieges barely working for more than a year now)
 
Except there was never a promised release date of 2015 so I want some of what you're smoking kid.
The original Mount & Blade is charming, clunky medieval sandbox game that hasn’t aged particularly well, but it also epitomizes some of PC gaming’s most important values: openness, self-authored storytelling, systems-driven gameplay, and scale. Its sequel, Bannerlord, is finally giving the series a substantial technical upgrade, adding physics, fire propagation, weapon customization, and a number of other systems that will raise its visual fidelity and add some tactical depth. For example, when you put an arrow into a castle defender who’s about to hurl a jar of flaming oil at you, not only will he tumble elegantly from the battlement, crumpling into a pile of ragdolling bones, but physics might dictate that his jug of fire slips in just the right way to catch one of your pikemen right in the face.

Bannerlord will be playable in some form this year, but the final game is expected in 2017, says Turkish developer TaleWorlds. Here's the most recent video, showing the defensive side of a siege. —Evan

2016 to the release we hope in 2022 = 6 years. I'd love whatever you're smoking.
 
I'm also pretty sure I never tried to die on the hill of this game being perfect, or even totally good. Pretty sure I even said that WB had better aspects then this game. But, I guess actually understanding that people have different viewpoints may be a bit of a stretch.
I don't know man, your "I don't think the game is perfect per se" argument comes off as an incredibly weak attempt to say "I'm relatively balanced in my views", which you are clearly not. Why do you insist on viciously defending TW against us, the hordes of evil orcs from the Dark Lord in his Dark Tower? Have the facts not been made to lay bare for you? They're not expanding upon the game. This is essentially the final version save some tweaks and fixes, and there have barely been any additions since the EA release, when the impression from the start was, "it's a rough foundation, but it can go far".

Well, it's not going any farther. Are you really satisfied to the point where if the game released tomorrow and TW didn't really do anything else with it, you'd be completely satisfied? Because this has become the growing reality as time has ridden on. I can't think of anyone at the start of the EA that would have played this and thought: "yep, game is definitely almost finished, it's done everything I wanted". The game has barely changed at all. They might as well have just released it in a Beta test instead. It was deceptive of TW to give the impression that much development will come with EA. They haven't added any real, substantial features or game mechanics, and they still can't fix sieges after all this time. How is this not embarrassing?
 
Well, it's not going any farther. Are you really satisfied to the point where if the game released tomorrow and TW didn't really do anything else with it, you'd be completely satisfied?
It won't stop there, TW will say at release "the game kind of sucks now but we'll continue to release new content through patches" and the Bannerlord Potential Enjoyers would jump on this and expect miracles again.
 

imgran

Squire
Bannerlord a grift? No. What it was, is a troubled project that's mostly playable but has a few features that are severely flawed and need work.

Quite frankly I can think of games released in much worse condition. Skyrim for one. In terms of both compexity and stability this game puts Skyrim to shame. Certainly Bannerlord's engine has Skyrim's beat by an order of magnitude, and Skyrim was released by an allegedly AAA developer, not bad work for a small team.

It's a game with a lot of issues but more positives than negatives. Was it ever going to live up to superfan expectations? No. TaleWorlds has never shown the kind of the coding skill required to pull off the masterpiece that fans wanted. With that said, I'd say with a straight face that Bannerlord is probably actually LESS flawed than vanilla Warband and has far more features. It's playable and even enjoyable. And its unit trees are far less broken than Warband where a handful of Knights can take entire castles on their own

If you want AAA polish, get it from a AAA company. TaleWorlds is not that and never has been. They're a small to medium sized developer that tried to make a massive game and discovered the hard way that the quick-good-cheap balance isn't so easily fooled. That's about it.

The problem with this game is that TaleWorlds' ambition was not matched by skill. They've done the best they can with what they are and aren't sure of the way forward or what to do to fix the remaining problems. That's understandable and could be where the story ends for Bannerlord. But no, this game was never a lie or a grift. There's a lot of hard work and passion that clearly went into this game. I got my money's worth out of it. It just might take more coding ability than the team has to finish the remaining systems in a way that satisfies those who, unlike the OP, haven't already been poisoned by their own illusions to expect far more than was possible of a small team making a big game.
 
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Phantom425

Sergeant
I don't know man, your "I don't think the game is perfect per se" argument comes off as an incredibly weak attempt to say "I'm relatively balanced in my views", which you are clearly not. Why do you insist on viciously defending TW against us, the hordes of evil orcs from the Dark Lord in his Dark Tower? Have the facts not been made to lay bare for you? They're not expanding upon the game. This is essentially the final version save some tweaks and fixes, and there have barely been any additions since the EA release, when the impression from the start was, "it's a rough foundation, but it can go far".
Except that's literally what my viewpoints are, I'm relatively balanced in my views. I don't how I am clearly not. I'm not viscously defending TW, I'm attacking weak arguments because they are weak arguments. I also attack things that, in my view, are blatantly wrong. There is a reason why I don't tend to post on threads that have the complaints all together, that's because I agree with them. However, posts such as this that is literally calling the game a grift and is having pointless discussion about where the game is on the Steam leaderboards, yeah, I'll post there.
Well, it's not going any farther. Are you really satisfied to the point where if the game released tomorrow and TW didn't really do anything else with it, you'd be completely satisfied? Because this has become the growing reality as time has ridden on. I can't think of anyone at the start of the EA that would have played this and thought: "yep, game is definitely almost finished, it's done everything I wanted". The game has barely changed at all. They might as well have just released it in a Beta test instead. It was deceptive of TW to give the impression that much development will come with EA. They haven't added any real, substantial features or game mechanics, and they still can't fix sieges after all this time. How is this not embarrassing?
As I've said before, meh. It is a plain game in my opinion, and there is quite a bit more that I do what TW to do with the game. However, I also am fine with waiting a while longer for it. And the game that we have, in my opinion, isn't bad. It isn't embarrassing to put out, and it can be very fun. While there are parts that drive me insane, such as some of the grindier aspects and the economy.

This forum continues to breed weak and strong arguments constantly. While I support a lot of the strong arguments, the weak ones just ruin it for everyone else and will give this forum a reputation of being generally toxic. You and others who just label new people as "newfags" and the like and just write off their opinions as being a sheep ready to be herded by TW. Ngl, I really do want the best for the game, and I do want TW to improve, but **** like that has only pushed me away. I know one guy who popped up on the forum means **** all to most of you, but I'm certain that if I get pushed away others will as well.

Its also nice that every disagreement boils down to one side going "Lol, you'll hate the game in a few months" and just says "You clearly don't understand our pain, man, you just don't get it". After the first time hearing that, it got old.
 

Bjorn The Hound

Grandmaster Knight
WBVCNWWF&SM&B
Ngl, I really do want the best for the game, and I do want TW to improve
Do you? Every now and then, some new guys are popping up in the singleplayer section or this section of the forum without needing your defence of "don't be toxic guys, it will scare the new guys". They are giving their feedback, their experience with the game. Regulars and those toxic people here already did this and continue doing this. What did you do exactly if you want best for this game and for TW to improve. A big f nothing. All you did is "take it easy guys, TW will deliver what you want eventually". What you are doing is a clown act either consciously or unconsciously.

"You clearly don't understand our pain, man, you just don't get it".
Because your actions as explained above clearly indicates this.
 

VicbossOG

Regular
The original Mount & Blade is charming, clunky medieval sandbox game that hasn’t aged particularly well, but it also epitomizes some of PC gaming’s most important values: openness, self-authored storytelling, systems-driven gameplay, and scale. Its sequel, Bannerlord, is finally giving the series a substantial technical upgrade, adding physics, fire propagation, weapon customization, and a number of other systems that will raise its visual fidelity and add some tactical depth. For example, when you put an arrow into a castle defender who’s about to hurl a jar of flaming oil at you, not only will he tumble elegantly from the battlement, crumpling into a pile of ragdolling bones, but physics might dictate that his jug of fire slips in just the right way to catch one of your pikemen right in the face.

Bannerlord will be playable in some form this year, but the final game is expected in 2017, says Turkish developer TaleWorlds. Here's the most recent video, showing the defensive side of a siege. —Evan

2016 to the release we hope in 2022 = 6 years. I'd love whatever you're smoking.

You should probably READ the articles you link bud.

Literally the bottom of the page. "There's still no word of a release date, but you can find out more about Mount & Blade 2: Bannerlord at taleworlds.com."

So again all that's in this thread that I really see is this :
😡😡😡😭😭😭🤬🤬🤬 "NOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST NOT RELEASE YOUR EARLY ACCESS GAME ON THE DAY YOU PROMISED EVEN THOUGH AAA TITLES PUSH BACK THEIR RELEASE DATES ALL THE TIME NOOOOO"
- The people in this thread
 
As a singleplayer, I can only sympathise with the multiplayer community about the disconnect between their vision and TW's. That said, we need to get real. However disappointing or frustrating Bannerlord is vs our expectations, it is neither a grift nor a scam. Yes, Dev blogs built hype and expectations, including mine, but they also warned that things were work in progress and subject to change.
None of us would hang around moaning unless we cared for the game's potential. That tantalising potential couldn't exist if it was all just smoke and mirrors.
 

danEN

Knight at Arms
WBM&BWF&SNWVC
They watch a fraudulent low effort human garbage bottom feeder youtuber read the threads for cheap fast "content" and decide to come get some attention for themselves. They get a little crumb and go away.
You might be right, his fanbase is this biggest bunch of freaks I've ever seen
 

vym

Recruit
You, guys, must realize and accept the fact that developers got few millions dollars each and swimming on private yachts somewhere around Caribbean's. They don't actually give AF about a game. I would have done the same, lol.
 
You should probably READ the articles you link bud.

Literally the bottom of the page. "There's still no word of a release date, but you can find out more about Mount & Blade 2: Bannerlord at taleworlds.com."

So again all that's in this thread that I really see is this :
😡😡😡😭😭😭🤬🤬🤬 "NOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST NOT RELEASE YOUR EARLY ACCESS GAME ON THE DAY YOU PROMISED EVEN THOUGH AAA TITLES PUSH BACK THEIR RELEASE DATES ALL THE TIME NOOOOO"
- The people in this thread
“Release in some form by 2016, with a full release by 2017” idk if you were just not paying attention back in 2015-2016, or just are a new fan so you weren’t looking at the news then or you just want to play ignorant for the sake of your argument. Whatever way, good god you are dense. You understand the difference between a specific release date and promising a game in a certain year, yes? Just because a date was not given does not mean they did not promise the game that year. You do recognize the difference between a date (usually in the form of MM/DD or DD/MM) and a year (usually in the form of 19XX or 20XX), yes? I don’t understand how you don’t get that, when they say “playable in some form this year (2016) and released next year (2017)”, that means early access in 2021 and release in 2022. How do you come to that conclusion?
 

VicbossOG

Regular
“Release in some form by 2016, with a full release by 2017” idk if you were just not paying attention back in 2015-2016, or just are a new fan so you weren’t looking at the news then or you just want to play ignorant for the sake of your argument. Whatever way, good god you are dense. You understand the difference between a specific release date and promising a game in a certain year, yes? Just because a date was not given does not mean they did not promise the game that year. You do recognize the difference between a date (usually in the form of MM/DD or DD/MM) and a year (usually in the form of 19XX or 20XX), yes? I don’t understand how you don’t get that, when they say “playable in some form this year (2016) and released next year (2017)”, that means early access in 2021 and release in 2022. How do you come to that conclusion?

Roy, stop REEEEEEEEEEEEEEING bud.
 
This is a thread going into more detail on a post I made last month here.

I will avoid the usage of the word "scam" as that could be seen as disingenuous and possibly libelous, even though as I will outline below, the figures are roughly correct, and it isn't libel if its true. Nevertheless, I'm going to lay forth a claim that Bannerlord, at least in its current state (And, as far as we know, the past few years) was simply a grift. Here's why:

Part 1. The Financial Breakdown

There will be bold in statements which are amendments to my previous post, or things needed to be added.

The average game developer in Istanbul (similar to Ankara) makes about 60 Turkish Lira an hour, which equates to about 7.05 USD, with an average pay of 125,000 Lira per year (about 14,500 USD). There are 131 employees at Taleworlds as of 2020. Therefore, the employee pay would be roughly 1,899,500 USD, probably a little less or more based on currency exchanges. I am not sure about Turkish tax law, but assuming their payroll taxes are roughly the same as the US, lets say 10%, rounding up lets say 2,200,000 for payroll and payroll taxes per year. Overhead is somewhat difficult to calculate, but I would put their facility costs (With electricity, which is cheap in Turkey) is probably around 5,000 a month, that is just a rough estimate based on how many employees they have and how much square footage they would need. So, overhead would be roughly 60,000 USD a year. To be conservative and account for accidents/miscellaneous expenses, lets put their expenses aside from marketing at roughly 2.5 million USD.

Bannerlord has sold between 3-5 million copies, according to steamdb and steamspy. At an average price of $45 (it depends on region, some places sell for less, some like pound and euro sell for more), after Steam's 30% cut, this leaves Taleworlds with roughly $31.50 for each sale. To be conservative, let's put it down to $30. With roughly 4 million sales, Taleworlds has made roughly $120 million in revenue from Bannerlord. Bannerlord has been in development since 2012 as far as we know, lets give them 2 years pre-announcement of development, which equals 11 years. Assuming 100% of their time at Taleworlds was devoted to Bannerlord (which it wasn't, warband was still in development well during this time period), this means that 27.5 million dollars was spent in expenses, lets double that for marketing. This expense of 55 million yielded them 120,000,000, which, with much wiggle room, cushions and conservative estimates, 65 million dollars (likely more because I doubt taleworlds spent that much in marketing, and salaries are probably less than I calculated, could be as much as 100 million USD). I may have gotten some calculations wrong along the way, and I may have estimated poorly, but no matter what, that is a lot of profit for the garbage can/excuse for a game that we got.

Part 2. Gameplay Features, or lack thereof

The gameplay of this "game" is, to put it lightly, lacking. There are more than enough threads to complain about the bare-bones, hollowness of the game. I am not a singleplayer player, I like multiplayer. The lack of multiplayer support for this game is at this point astounding and legendary. The fact that modders for various projects are simply waiting on Taleworlds to just let them get their hands on it so they can improve the game for everyone's enjoyment is beyond me. It is so snail-brained and what few "Explanations" taleworlds has given are vague and meaningless. They use a lot of words to say nothing.

The recent patches to the game have improved almost nothing, and the dev diaries show us no hope. With feature after feature being cancelled or postponed, it seems like Taleworlds is just doing nothing while goading us to trust them, holding a carrot in front of our eyes. Not even heraldry can be fixed.

tenor.gif


Part 3. Bannerlord Online

The lack of support for the Bannerlord Online mod, made by one random Russian guy in a basement, an absolutely gorgeous mod with so much ambition and potential, but most importantly what the fans wanted. The ambivalence towards it by Taleworlds shows, after years of people begging for co-op campaign somewhat proves that Taleworlds doesn't give a damn what their fans want or think. This is the most egregious example, but there are more. Gone are the days of improving upon mods like Mount and Musket, in with the days of "WE KNOW BEST **** OFF MODDERS!"

Part 4. Time

Bannerlord took forever to release and it is still in early access. You would think that a game with more time being tacked on to development would be better, not worse. But here we are, 11 years later, with nothing to show for it. What were they doing all that time? Twiddling their thumbs?

Conclusion: Bannerlord was a Grift
With all this being said, I think it is safe to include that, while perhaps Taleworlds intentions when they first developed Bannerlord wanted to make a better game, the idea of grandeur and money probably got the best of them. It's hard to exactly pinpoint when Taleworlds decided that money was more important than keeping fans happy, but I would wager around 2015-2016 was when the idea of an excellent game was thrown out the window in favor of cash. Do you agree?
This game may cost upwards of 100m to make when it's said and done. Also, money is not everything. Making a game is about people. There are core competencies, organizational structures, synergy, etc. Many people think that money solves everything. The truth is the game is complex and the issues do not time to work through. The game is in early access and you could have just as easily waited until the game was released to buy it. You decided to buy the game prior to release. I am sure you do not regret this decision either because eon balance the game is very fun.
 
Except that's literally what my viewpoints are, I'm relatively balanced in my views. I don't how I am clearly not. I'm not viscously defending TW, I'm attacking weak arguments because they are weak arguments. I also attack things that, in my view, are blatantly wrong. There is a reason why I don't tend to post on threads that have the complaints all together, that's because I agree with them. However, posts such as this that is literally calling the game a grift and is having pointless discussion about where the game is on the Steam leaderboards, yeah, I'll post there.
You're not balanced in your views. You're clearly biased towards defending the game, the company, and their practices, and biased against seemingly all forms of criticism. I have not seen much criticism from you at all. Just apologetics, which is strange. Calling this game a grift not in the literal sense, but in the allegorical and symbolic sense, is not far out there. The game was deceptively marketed and promises were made and not kept.
As I've said before, meh. It is a plain game in my opinion, and there is quite a bit more that I do what TW to do with the game. However, I also am fine with waiting a while longer for it. And the game that we have, in my opinion, isn't bad. It isn't embarrassing to put out, and it can be very fun. While there are parts that drive me insane, such as some of the grindier aspects and the economy.
"I am fine with waiting a while longer for it."

The game is in its final stages, this is it. Sure, the game can be very fun, and it isn't "terrible" in the grand scheme of things, but compared to the previous games and considering the tools, manpower, and budget compared to before, this is one sorry prequel. The game is incredibly frustrating in many other ways, and it's a massive, slugging grind fest, in a lot of ways worse than the previous games. This is not what the game was hyped up to be. Sieges not being fixed for this long isn't embarrassing to you? It's hard to take you seriously when you don't find this ridiculous.
This forum continues to breed weak and strong arguments constantly. While I support a lot of the strong arguments, the weak ones just ruin it for everyone else and will give this forum a reputation of being generally toxic. You and others who just label new people as "newfags" and the like and just write off their opinions as being a sheep ready to be herded by TW. Ngl, I really do want the best for the game, and I do want TW to improve, but **** like that has only pushed me away. I know one guy who popped up on the forum means **** all to most of you, but I'm certain that if I get pushed away others will as well.

Its also nice that every disagreement boils down to one side going "Lol, you'll hate the game in a few months" and just says "You clearly don't understand our pain, man, you just don't get it". After the first time hearing that, it got old.
I have never labeled anyone "newfag" or the like. Also, the reason why you probably hear such statements as "you don't understand our pain", is because you don't come across as very sympathetic or understanding of the other side's frustration and feeling of betrayal. It just doesn't seem like you do understand. If you've followed this game's development over those many years closely, this is a total letdown. And it's not a letdown that's been improving significantly, or seemingly will.
 

Jarungo

Recruit
WBNWVC
5036 players on Warband right now. Why? I don't know since Bannerlord is already out, right. I don't think these guys lives in caves so they must definitely heard Bannerlord is out. Bannerlord has 14827. Let's add Warband number to Bannerlord. We would get 19863. As I am looking most played games right now, this number carry Bannerlord to rank 40. Let's say all the missing features was in EA, I would be generous and say this situation would give Bannerlord 2000 players more. Bannerlord would get to rank 36 as I see the numbers right now.

I mean even if without my hypothetical number, just with Warband players, Bannerlord is moving from rank 55 to 40.

So you are ignoring this question then I am assuming you did not follow the devblogs. So you don't any idea how much disappointment Bannerlord for me and you will never understand why this forum have some toxic people or some one liners bashing the game every chance they get. @Phantom425
Why do you care so much about how many people play the game? It's not an indicative meter if a game is good or not, if you don't like Bannerlord just move on and play a different game. Get off your high heels and just be patient until the game is fully released, there's nothing to say the development won't continue after early access.​
 
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