Bannerlord was a grift

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Furthermore, I do play games that I actually like. I would also like for this game to be good so that it can join them. I don't know if the Taleworlds defenders think that people like me are just sitting around nonstop, waiting for a thread to reply to, doing absolutely nothing but ****ting on Taleworlds.

I mean... kinda seems like what you're doing, yeah. If it walks like a duck, et cetera et cetera.

If you don't like the game, that's fine. I have a friend who doesn't care for Bannerlord. Baffles me to all hell, but different strokes I guess. You know what he does? He doesn't play it, the same way I don't play World of Tanks (because it's an abysmal cesspool of anti-fun). Neither he nor I spend countless hours on a forum for a thing we hate having a histrionics huddle about a video game so other disaffected drama queens can validate our childishness. And don't tell me that's not why you're here --

😉 Don’t expect people like him to think.

Did you feel better? Did some smooth-brain coming along with a dribble of seminal fluid in your defense shore up your resolve to carry on this juvenile display of petulant whining? I'll bet it did.

Consider the opposite, then. A bunch of Taleworlds developers have toiled for years with blood, sweat, and tears, amidst a global pandemic and a literal military coup in the developer's country of origin. And they log in to their own GD forums to see page after page and thread after thread of pathetic, unpleasable customers (who capitalistic propriety requires them to cater to anyway) accusing them of grift. I'm sure there's been problems on the development team. I'm sure there's been management issues. I'm sure there's been mistakes, oversights, and maybe even a scandal or two (how sordid!). Do you know how soul-crushing it is to work for peanuts in order to make a fun video game for people to enjoy, only to be bombarded with accusations that your years of work amounts to nothing more than the snake oil of a lying con-man? I don't. But I've got a pretty good imagination.

Go outside. People like you are the reason "gamer" is an insult in civilized society.
 

vito397

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
I also do not feel as if they have abandoned it, or that they just went in for the quick cash. Nobody spends that amount of money and time only to abandon the project in favour of fast monetary gain. I do think there are some questionable design decision, but that is nothing that cannot be ironed out over the longer course of development. My only worry is the current dlc climate of most developers, and i hope tw do not take that route.

As for the speed of the development, well, we cannot say that we arent used to the turtle pace :smile: , no offence to tw
 
I mean... kinda seems like what you're doing, yeah. If it walks like a duck, et cetera et cetera.

If you don't like the game, that's fine. I have a friend who doesn't care for Bannerlord. Baffles me to all hell, but different strokes I guess. You know what he does? He doesn't play it, the same way I don't play World of Tanks (because it's an abysmal cesspool of anti-fun). Neither he nor I spend countless hours on a forum for a thing we hate having a histrionics huddle about a video game so other disaffected drama queens can validate our childishness. And don't tell me that's not why you're here --



Did you feel better? Did some smooth-brain coming along with a dribble of seminal fluid in your defense shore up your resolve to carry on this juvenile display of petulant whining? I'll bet it did.

Consider the opposite, then. A bunch of Taleworlds developers have toiled for years with blood, sweat, and tears, amidst a global pandemic and a literal military coup in the developer's country of origin. And they log in to their own GD forums to see page after page and thread after thread of pathetic, unpleasable customers (who capitalistic propriety requires them to cater to anyway) accusing them of grift. I'm sure there's been problems on the development team. I'm sure there's been management issues. I'm sure there's been mistakes, oversights, and maybe even a scandal or two (how sordid!). Do you know how soul-crushing it is to work for peanuts in order to make a fun video game for people to enjoy, only to be bombarded with accusations that your years of work amounts to nothing more than the snake oil of a lying con-man? I don't. But I've got a pretty good imagination.

Go outside. People like you are the reason "gamer" is an insult in civilized society.
😡 one fish
😡 😡 two fish
😡 😡 😡 three fish
😡 😡 😡 😡 four
Gaius is more triggered than ever before 😂
 

Jarungo

Recruit
WBNWVC
Or maybe we would just like the product we paid for/were promised? Or the money back, but preferably the game. We were promised something for 10 years and it still hasn't gotten here yet. I don't understand how you wouldn't be pissed? And again with this meme "diversify your life" "play other games" obviously we do it is not only messaging on the taleworlds forum complaining about the game not being out, we watch TV, we play other games....we in this circumstance though would like the game we paid for.
Who is ''we''?

You clearly aren't speaking on my behalf. I'm perfectly happy with the product I paid for and I look forward to more updates.
 

Phantom425

Regular
He also spoke for me on my behalf, as well as most people here. You are the exception, not the rule.
He isn’t the exception and you aren’t the rule. There are those who like the game and those who don’t. He was speaking for those who like the game, which does take up a lot of this forum. However, this forum is not all of the Bannerlord community.
 
It is quite obvious that the majority consensus from warband players is that the game sucks and should be improved. If you aren’t in this group, feel free to opt out. Nobody said you must be included in the “we” (disaffected warband players) I refer to.
 

Phantom425

Regular
It is quite obvious that the majority consensus from warband players is that the game sucks and should be improved. If you aren’t in this group, feel free to opt out. Nobody said you must be included in the “we” (disaffected warband players) I refer to.
It is the majority consensus of this forum. Unless there is a study that I am not aware of, it really isn’t fair to state that all WB players think that the game sucks.

Also, for the “we” thing, it was never specified who the “we” was.
 

Panzerphreak

Recruit
It is the majority consensus of this forum. Unless there is a study that I am not aware of, it really isn’t fair to state that all WB players think that the game sucks.

Also, for the “we” thing, it was never specified who the “we” was.
It is a well-known phenomenon that forum posters for any game are greatly overrepresenting the dissatisfied or niche players. E.g. in various MMOs you will find hordes of PvP players and end-game Raiders even though these players actually represent maybe 5-10% of the players based on game stats from the game company. And they will complain endlessly about some "balance" that most players never experience for themselves.

Somebody who is playing a game - and enjoying himself - will rarely find the time to read forums and will usually refrain from posting if he visits the forums because he doesn't see the value of participating or is afraid of abuse from the regulars.
 

Emil

Squire
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
It is a well-known phenomenon that forum posters for any game are greatly overrepresenting the dissatisfied or niche players. E.g. in various MMOs you will find hordes of PvP players and end-game Raiders even though these players actually represent maybe 5-10% of the players based on game stats from the game company. And they will complain endlessly about some "balance" that most players never experience for themselves.

Somebody who is playing a game - and enjoying himself - will rarely find the time to read forums and will usually refrain from posting if he visits the forums because he doesn't see the value of participating or is afraid of abuse from the regulars.
It would be valid if not for the fact that the in-game population has been dwindling at a pace almost never seen previously in the gaming industry. There are more users here giving input weekly, than playing the multiplayer on a weekly basis. We all did quit the game for the same reasons as the rest after all. Many have attempted to change the weird path the game has taken for years now. What do you expect when even the most basic and endorsed suggestions, like keeping the openness of the Warband classes in the multiplayer have been ignored since the beta, leading to a rather worsened state of the game, or when mod tools and server files, when the multiplayer rp servers and modding capabilities was the thing Warband was famous for, still isn't fully available?

Balance is regularly reworked, thus it's also quite discussed as it's the only thing players appear to be able to influence right now. Although, no-one here looks at balance as the main issue. Balance can and will be handled by modders and server owners when those are allowed to do so, and it's time consuming having to rework balance every time new stuff is to be added, but as some users worry; the focus on balance might mean TW considers themselves pretty done with the development. There are, however, bigger and more foundational matters which requires dealing with if they want to regain the numbers lost.

I can understand when Warband requires events to populate its multiplayer DLC after ten years, but Bannerlord only has one or two years on its neck, and is in the same situation. It doesn't take Einstein to understand the situation would be different if the game was satisfactory.
 
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Will respond more in depth later but the dedicated fans even if they are small in number are the ones you don’t want to piss off. Without them you can’t get a hypw train going. And as was said, player base of bannerlord is dropping hysterically fast.
 

Phantom425

Regular
It would be valid if not for the fact that the in-game population has been dwindling at a pace almost never seen previously in the gaming industry.
Will respond more in depth later but the dedicated fans even if they are small in number are the ones you don’t want to piss off. Without them you can’t get a hypw train going. And as was said, player base of bannerlord is dropping hysterically fast.
These claims are both false. While the multiplayer may be dying, the game has kept a stead number a players following the after launch drop off. Claiming that the game is dying is is just denying the state of the game in terms of player count.
 

Emil

Squire
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
These claims are both false. While the multiplayer may be dying, the game has kept a stead number a players following the after launch drop off. Claiming that the game is dying is is just denying the state of the game in terms of player count.
To be fair, I was mainly talking about the multiplayer population, and the massive drop from 250k to 25k within a month. You may say its steady, but Steamdb evidently shows that it'd continuously drop unless Twitch streamers remind their viewers of the existence of the game, and/or unless TW bait players into thinking they've released big updates, only for the players to realize it was just a glorified balance patch and leave again.

I wouldn't claim the game is dead or necessary dying, but it's in limbo, and the longer it takes for the developers to solve the real issues, the more likely it won't be able to recover. I'd recommend reading the mp letter. Idk if beta forums are available, but they're probably in some archive. Users were giving a lot of feedback and some amazing ideas, not that it did matter in the end. If anything I find it to be tragic that the sequel, the supposedly savior of the prequel, already is in the same dire situation, having the same player numbers Warband had the months prior the Bannerlord release.
 
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Phantom425

Regular
To be fair, I was mainly talking about the multiplayer population, and the massive drop from 250k to 25k within a month. You may say its steady, but Steamdb evidently shows that it'd continuously drop unless Twitch streamers remind their viewers of the existence of the game, and/or unless TW bait players into thinking they've released big updates, only for the players to realize it was just a glorified balance patch and leave again.
Once again, I have to disagree. Looking at the SteamDB charts, it is a steady game that is going on a year of EA. The massive drop from 250k to 25k makes sense, as that was the immediate release of the "long awaited successor to Warband" and people wanted to play it. So, they got it, and then they stopped. Very few games will keep that number. In fact, just look at the game Valheim, a very successful game. That game follows the same trend as BL is, it is just earlier on. And while there was a jump in twitch viewership, looking at the chart it did not have a massive impact on the game's playerbase.
I wouldn't claim the game is dead or necessary dying, but it's in limbo, and the longer it takes for the developers to solve the real issues, the more likely it won't be able to recover. I'd recommend reading the mp letter. Idk if beta forums are available, but they're probably in some archive. Users were giving a lot of feedback and some amazing ideas, not that it did matter in the end. If anything I find it to be tragic that the sequel, the supposedly savior of the prequel, already is in the same dire situation, having the same player numbers Warband had the months prior the Bannerlord release.
You're right in one aspect, if the devs do nothing the game will die. That makes sense, however the devs are doing things. I've stated this thousands of times, but the 1.6.0 patch should be one of the most important patches for the community, as it showed that the devs would listen and they are continuing to work on the game. I also looked at the MP letter and the games they compare the two games and, while Football manager 2020 had a longer amount of higher players, BL is currently doing just as well as the game and is not decreasing in player numbers. The two games, at this point, are doing equally as good.

If I am being quite frank, this "dire situation" that you claim the game to be in does not exist. There is no dire situation, although there is one. The Devs are working slowly, and communication has not been good, but they have yet to abandon the game. Also, saying that it had the same numbers of players that WB had before the release shows that players either quit WB or moved to BL, as there are now more players playing BL then WB, standing at an average 17-20k playercount. You can take that as you will, and I will make my own assumptions, but the one point that I am making is that this dire situation is the same as people touting that Team Fortress 2 is dead year after year after year, while there is a problem it is far from life threatening for the game.
 
One thing that is clear to me is wrong development focus. Stuff like field battles + sieges are 90-99% of game once you hit mid game. There are clear measurable problems in these areas (pathfinding, AI tactics like cricle of suicide, ladders pretty much not working until 1.6.0 - one ladder per flank now works, ranged vs melee imbalance cause by how armor and damage works just to mention a few). Logical conclussion in such situation would be to make 90% of your gameplay less broken, which would appease the fans and also make you look less incompetent, however for over a year this was not really the case. Instead there were some token watered down wanna be CK2 features that werent touched since their release. Only thing that genuinely improved for me from perspective of normie (I assuming this perspective here, I am not one obviously) player is performance, that is something that is hard to sell to someone who bought the game one year ago and wanted to come back. Look at releases by Paradox Interactive for example (I know I walking on thin ice here due to their recent behaviour and their long term DLC policy), they generally release broken game but at least they release new features (that are often fully developed, not left in the middle of development) or fix most of the broken stuff eventually (and the they break it with next patch, but at least you can reroll to working patch on steam), at least you can see they are trying.

In TW it seems to me that they are either focusing on wrong stuff, or that they lack personnel to do certain type of coding (AI?). They should focus on at least one of the two things - fixing sutff that affects most of your gameplay and adding new features in either high quantity or even better high quality (so the players at least think you are doing something).

PS: stop "fixing" sieges by adding wooden fences on stone walls, adding unmatching walls to pre-existing walls, barricading functional rooms in the castle towers by wooden planks while leaving stairs intact, etc. It looks very amateurish and shines very bad light on you, especially when you had beautifull castles on release. Just get someone who can code AI and pathfinding, OK?
 

Emil

Squire
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
The massive drop from 250k to 25k makes sense.
I agree it does ...because it didn't live up to peoples' expectations.
Very few games will keep that number.
I have to disagree. A lot of games keep a huge percentage of their initial numbers, and even increase them pretty soon after launch when the previously suspicious to the series also decide to buy in on the fun. The game you reference to later in your post is one of them (TF2). Some games like singleplayer games with a playthroughable story naturally decline, unlike sandbox games like Garrys Mod and Mount and Blade.
In fact, just look at the game Valheim, a very successful game. That game follows the same trend as BL is, it is just earlier on.
Valheim is developed by a studio of 5 people, and started as a side-project from one dude. It's a massive difference to the power of TaleWorlds, which is a studio of at least 200 developers. Valheims' population is yet stable with more concurrent players, per your own rhetorics, than the aforementioned game. Valheim will take about three years to complete per their estimation, meanwhile Bannerlord still has no public roadmap.
You're right in one aspect, if the devs do nothing the game will die. That makes sense, however the devs are doing things. I've stated this thousands of times, but the 1.6.0 patch should be one of the most important patches for the community, as it showed that the devs would listen and they are continuing to work on the game.
1.6.0 may have been a bigger update than the previously patches/hotfixes, but you'd have to be new to the whole spectacle if you're naive enough to mark that as redemption for eight years of mismanagement and ignorance. I think someone a while back stated it perfectly; some players had been hyped for years, and now they cannot fathom having wasted all those years being hyped for an underwhelming experience, thus they force themselves to play or like the game, and remain as vigilant white knights on the forums. That, if anything, hurts the strength of our feedback and power as customers.
I also looked at the MP letter and the games they compare the two games and, while Football manager 2020 had a longer amount of higher players, BL is currently doing just as well as the game and is not decreasing in player numbers. The two games, at this point, are doing equally as good.
Oh man, you don't take into account how the release of Football Manager 2021 led to the logical decrease of players in Football Manager 2020, just as Bannerlord led to the decrease of Warband players. The difference is whilst Bannerlord decreased rapidly post-launch, Football Manager 2021 only lost 20% of it's initial concurrent players and will probably keep that stable ratio until Football Manager 2022 is released, all whilst Bannerlord only has 10% remaining of its initial concurrent players, and to add salt to the wound, led to a further decrease in Warband as well.
There is no dire situation, although there is one.
The logic in this comment. The situation might not be dire for you, if you love playing the game with all it's issues, bugs and lack of the basic things which made the Mount and Blade-series a success. Personally, I loved the full overhaul mods, and the multiplayer. I played the first game as well as Warband between the release and 2013, then got tired of the game, only to somehow happen upon a YouTube video showcasing the Napoleonic Wars DLC, and since then it's prolonged my stay in the series for an additional seven or eight years. The lack of stuff that will prolong players stay is dire, and that's clearly why the numbers dropped like never before ...Well, in the exception of No Man's Sky.
Also, saying that it had the same numbers of players that WB had before the release shows that players either quit WB or moved to BL, as there are now more players playing BL then WB, standing at an average 17-20k playercount.
Oh yes, it's great that the sequel has the same numbers after a year as the prequel had after ten years. If anything it means either not a lot of new players to the series came to remain, or old veterans didn't return. Nothing to be proud of. It's not an accomplishment.
You can take that as you will, and I will make my own assumptions, but the one point that I am making is that this dire situation is the same as people touting that Team Fortress 2 is dead year after year after year, while there is a problem it is far from life threatening for the game.
I do not know of these individuals. I last played, and hosted Swedish server in TF2 back in 2014. However, I've never felt the need to be kept up-to-date on the politics of that game. What I can see from Steamdb is that it's a bad comparison. TF2 has had an stable population since it's release, and as previously said, even increased it's population when it got well-received remarks. In reality, the contrast is huge between the two games.
 
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