Bannerlord should not have a hard cap on skills

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odenheim

Recruit
Instead of having a hard cap, the game should just have the multiplier system the fact is that even without hard caps your character isn't going to master every skill tree in the game since it would take literal years to do (Chances are you won't even reach level 26 by the time you conquer the world), and your character would centrally die first. As the game is right now leveling feels unsatisfying to play, attributes and focus points makes your character more talented in a certain field but it doesn't make them better at it unlike previous games and levels increase exponentially so it's not like you will become someone with 600 skill points.
At the moment for a good amount of people the biggest issue with this game is how leveling is handled and for me seeing my character no longer being able to grow due to an artificial roadblock feels terrible to play to the point that I can't enjoy this game like the other mount and blade games. Before you say that Warband has an artificial roadblock that's due to an xp bug and I had games where I reached level 43, compared that to Bannerlord where you will never reach level 30 despite attribute points being once every 4 levels for no good reason, the Bannerlord xp bug is at level 62 which no one is ever going to reach that level anyway.
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Grandmaster Knight
I agree with this "No hard caps" idea. I would like it to just be very slow for any skill and have the FP increase the rate. I don't see a reason to have attributes either. Rather then building just for caps/max perks you could be looking at priorities too. Would be much better and flexible.

However you can get past level 30, level 32-36 is the usual range players get to when completing the map, some go higher. The exp to level you character is independent of the skill exp caps. SO even with hard capped skills you still get the same exp form actions/conditions that give exp and so you keep leveling.

I just think the current system gets in it's own way and undermines the point of this type of character building. Also, many skills/perks are not good enough that anything would really change if the player got a few more of them.
 

xdj1nn

Knight at Arms
WBWF&S
Instead of having a hard cap, the game should just have the multiplier system the fact is that even without hard caps your character isn't going to master every skill tree in the game since it would take literal years to do (Chances are you won't even reach level 26 by the time you conquer the world), and your character would centrally die first. As the game is right now leveling feels unsatisfying to play, attributes and focus points makes your character more talented in a certain field but it doesn't make them better at it unlike previous games and levels increase exponentially so it's not like you will become someone with 600 skill points.
At the moment for a good amount of people the biggest issue with this game is how leveling is handled and for me seeing my character no longer being able to grow due to an artificial roadblock feels terrible to play to the point that I can't enjoy this game like the other mount and blade games. Before you say that Warband has an artificial roadblock that's due to an xp bug and I had games where I reached level 43, compared that to Bannerlord where you will never reach level 30 despite attribute points being once every 4 levels for no good reason, the Bannerlord xp bug is at level 62 which no one is ever going to reach that level anyway.
I use mods for that - personally their leveling pacing / rates disgusts me....
 

Lord Irontoe

Master Knight
I think there should be a minimum learning rate of something like 0.1 or 0.2 so that you can keep leveling your skills past the learning limit but at a very slow pace. Warband's proficiency system was perfect, actually. It just had the soft cap, but you could push past it and if you play long enough, get your proficiencies up into 400s and 500s even. There's no good reason for hard caps
 

czarny

Veteran
Idea is you should focus on developing your character in certain skills to make some kind of build. Problem is you have only 1 play style in the game so it doesn't matter what build you make, you play the game same way...
 

xdj1nn

Knight at Arms
WBWF&S
I think there should be a minimum learning rate of something like 0.1 or 0.2 so that you can keep leveling your skills past the learning limit but at a very slow pace. Warband's proficiency system was perfect, actually. It just had the soft cap, but you could push past it and if you play long enough, get your proficiencies up into 400s and 500s even. There's no good reason for hard caps
there is, that would be their "incredible math". I've tested past caps on skills and they break the game. Specially combat ones... For that to work they'd have to force a downscaling bonus for provided skills that would also have to take into account the perks with extra oomph...
If you go 500 steward you'll receive wages from your army - that's broken, and if they block negatives, not paying your army's a bit ludicrous - instead the wages should have a minimum cap. Same goes for many other things... If you level past 300, depending on mod and/or weapon, your toon will start swinging heavy &/or hard to handle weapons faster than they can move their limbs... It's very bizarre... Imagine the effect at 500 or more! :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

Adryl

Regular
Completely agreed, remove hard cap and just increasingly diminishing returns would be much more engaging.
 

Adryl

Regular
there is, that would be their "incredible math". I've tested past caps on skills and they break the game. Specially combat ones... For that to work they'd have to force a downscaling bonus for provided skills that would also have to take into account the perks with extra oomph...
If you go 500 steward you'll receive wages from your army - that's broken, and if they block negatives, not paying your army's a bit ludicrous - instead the wages should have a minimum cap. Same goes for many other things... If you level past 300, depending on mod and/or weapon, your toon will start swinging heavy &/or hard to handle weapons faster than they can move their limbs... It's very bizarre... Imagine the effect at 500 or more! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Honestly I think that's fine. So what. It's SP, we're all playing alone. If my guy swings faster than my limbs because I played an extra hundred hours to level my skills more, so what. At that point I've played so much, I understand I've passed the game's recommended skill caps and things are going to start to get squirrely. Players love stuff like that where they are able to 'transcend' the game by skilling up so much.
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Grandmaster Knight
Just to clarify when I sad hardcap I mean what the player is allowed to reach in normal gameplay. I don't mean some technical limitation that exists to not explode the game. I took this as the OP's meaning too. Fore example IIIRC 330 is the max skill and player can gain with 10 attributes and 5 fp, so if the player were allowed to reach this level , al be it very very slowly, without putting in points that would be good. With points, it could be reached faster so you could prioritize what's important to you, but not be completely cut off from growth in other skills. I mean it makes no sense that you would completely stop learning from swinging a sword or tending wounds or whatever, just because your focuses is on some other activity you aren't even doing at that time.
 

xdj1nn

Knight at Arms
WBWF&S
Honestly I think that's fine. So what. It's SP, we're all playing alone. If my guy swings faster than my limbs because I played an extra hundred hours to level my skills more, so what. At that point I've played so much, I understand I've passed the game's recommended skill caps and things are going to start to get squirrely. Players love stuff like that where they are able to 'transcend' the game by skilling up so much.
so what? so it doesn't become a generic amateur crap experience. Do I think we should have more to progress? Absolutely! Do I think it's a good idea to have broken systems that turn the entire experience into an uncanny nightmare? Not ever.
These things do not fit the setting and the premise of the game - if you want uncanny absurdity you should play a fantasy game or wait til there's a fantasy mod for Bannerlord - not ask it to be shoved into the vanilla experience... Say if you were the guy deciding things within TW and did that, you'd ruin the game and plummet sales in the process... Just saying.
Btw, you can also achieve the uncanny valley effect RIGHT NOW by using a few mods - go for it - it's an SP experience after all, why haven't you done so already?
 

TheViviansen

Recruit
I think it's good to have limitations on building your char, it adds a little bit of replay value in my runs and it helps with roleplaying. You finish having chars with different focus which is pretty much standard in every rpg-like progression system. We should ask for more personality, more identity, more unique chars, not a way to min/max everything. A sandbox game should live on its stories, the numbers are there only to remember who you are. Identity is about differences. We need more, not less.
 

xdj1nn

Knight at Arms
WBWF&S
I think it's good to have limitations on building your char, it adds a little bit of replay value in my runs and it helps with roleplaying. You finish having chars with different focus which is pretty much standard in every rpg-like progression system. We should ask for more personality, more identity, more unique chars, not a way to min/max everything. A sandbox game should live on its stories, the numbers are there only to remember who you are. Identity is about differences. We need more, not less.
once you realize there are only 2 relevant possible builds, you'll take that back
 
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