Bannerlord "Just accept what we give you and stop crying" vs Valheim Roadmap

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SOku

Veteran
Medieval Dynasty folks are in comparison following their roadmap pretty much flawlessly, it could be an hundred times better example than Valheilm's Soon™ .
 

Mabons

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I don't think the point of the OP was that Valheim is a good game(I thought it was good enough considering my low expectations of it upon seeing it). He simply said, "look here is a game in a similar boat to Bannerlord and they have a roadmap with a far inferior set up". A roadmap is two things:
1) It lets us know the developers intentions with their game
2) You can track the progress made

On another front to compare them to, I had very few bugs, and no game breaking bugs during my time playing Valheim, granted it's shorter than Bannerlord but then you look at times when I can't even play multiplayer nevermind my ears being raped during my Bannerlord playtime...
 
Why do you think this community is so pissed at Taleworlds? Because they talked too much.
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Yeah, they were radio silent for months at a time back in 2014-17, but that is when the hype built up the most, and people all across the internet were wildly speculating about how good it was going to be . It's when the blogs actually started coming out super regularly that you started seeing "I hope this is just a warband remaster at this point".
The blogs barely promised anything that wasn't in the final game, because neither Lust nor Callum had the balls to lie outright like that. What annoyed people isn't that Taleworlds promised too much, it's that they had a bare minimum idea of what the game would be like (i.e. warband with better core design) and it even lacked that. No amount of PR (or lack thereof) will prevent people from being annoyed at a game like that.
 
Yes, I made the thread, I precisely know what the point of the thread is, which is showing how Valheim has a long roadmap based on player feedback on what they want
is the roadmap based on player feedback though, or on their own plans? People barely even knew what the updates were entailing when they first saw the roadmap, and it's not a good example of a roadmap either, not very detailed/descriptive is it...

Also it's been 3 months and no significant Valheim update. People are expecting the first update but they are working on reskinning bosses and the troll instead... I mean, I loved playing the game, but could only squeeze 145 hours and I'm completely done with it, no replayability, meanwhile Bannerlord: 1,175 hours and still going with only native version - 0 mods. It's two different breeds, Bannerlord is a lot bigger and complex of a project.

Bannerlord devs also listen to feedback, I've seen changes based on feedback even if not "the big changes" that some people want. And about the roadmap, they do have a list of what they're "currently" working on, it's just not marketed in mainstream ways with pretty pictures that's all.

I really don't understand why this is still being requested so heavily. Updates are coming in a 1-2 month regular basis, and devs have stated what they're currently working on. I'd think we all understand now that the devs prefer more flexibility in their choices and they don't want to make long-term (year-long) promises they might never deliver, and instead prefer to do short-mid term plans and see what needs to be done from there, which I don't see any problem with.
Just use your imagination and take these for current roadmaps:

Multiplayer roadmap: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/statement-regarding-plans-for-mp-vol-5.439403/
Singleplayer roadmap: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...plans-for-singleplayer-and-engine-iii.439421/

Just no pretty pictures and 'dates', but hey, neither does Valheim have any clear-cut dates does it.

The way Bannerlord devs do it is way better than any long-term and rigid road maps imo. Imagine if they just gave us a roadmap at the start of EA with only their vision and completely ignored all feedback and only did that. Would you have been happy with a roadmap then? TW instead does plans for semi-long periods, they say: for the next months this is what we're working on, which is a more realistic, flexible approach. Look at the roadmaps above, they already implemented sandbox and more like they said. Voice chat is close for the MP so you know what to expect, etc. And I'm pretty sure we had such information given to use before as well, not just in february, so this kind of planning is a recurring thing not a one-timer.
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
Yeah, they were radio silent for months at a time back in 2014-17, but that is when the hype built up the most, and people all across the internet were wildly speculating about how good it was going to be . It's when the blogs actually started coming out super regularly that you started seeing "I hope this is just a warband remaster at this point".
The blogs barely promised anything that wasn't in the final game, because neither Lust nor Callum had the balls to lie outright like that. What annoyed people isn't that Taleworlds promised too much, it's that they had a bare minimum idea of what the game would be like (i.e. warband with better core design) and it even lacked that. No amount of PR (or lack thereof) will prevent people from being annoyed at a game like that.
At the end of the day, it is our fault :lol: :iamamoron: 🎻 . I was already sniffing the burned toast here.
 

SOku

Veteran
Look, this is a far better example than Valheim :


Even though the game is a bit of a dissapointement.

Another example ( like I mentioned earlier )
to ->

My whole point is, if you want to compare to Bannerlord, at least take a game which delivered it's roadmap as announced, right now you're comparing Bannerlord to another dev who promise something, like it is a new concept in the industry somehow... Color me surprised.
 

Grank

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVC
No amount of PR (or lack thereof) will prevent people from being annoyed at a game like that.
Oh I wasn't saying people wouldn't be mad. The game is pretty barebone, and even if they didn't say anything that would mostly remain the same. I'm just saying people wouldn't be this mad if they didn't announce Bannerlord too early and made all those promises. It would just be a pleasant surprise, and people who are disappointed will mildly place hope on mods. Notice how there's a lot of "We waited 8 years for this?!" "They worked for 8 years and couldn't even do X?" "Why is this thing from the dev blog not in the game?" "Features Taleworlds promised but failed to deliver."
 
I dunno man, for the first month after the game came out most players were fairly positive about it. It took until june/july for the majority of players to start getting frustrated. The problem wasn't the PR prior to release (which was still very bad), it was the pace and direction of patches after the fact. "We waited 8 years for this" only began to set in after they realised the patches weren't really going anywhere.

Compare that to something like Cyberpunk 2077 or Fallout 76 which were instantly panned. It didn't take a whole 3 months for frustrations about either game to set in.
 
This is all about too much PR.

(some time in 2012 or 2013 in a gaming site booth at a gaming conference)
(in an alternate timeline that has been granked)

So, we have an interview with Armagan, the developer of the successful cult games Mount and Blade and Mount and Blade: Warband.
Welcome Armagan, how does it feel to have made it form a small indie studio to a franchise worth millions?
- I'm not saying.
Well, I'm sure our viewers are anxious to know what is your next project? When is Mount and Blade 2 coming out?
- I can't say whether there's any project nor what it is about. I'm also not speculating on dates if a hypothetical project was started.
Urk. Well, it's fair to say that the Mount and Blade fans are eager to see what's the next step in the franchise? We did a survey and they keep asking about your next game.
- I don't know any of these people and can't possibly know if what we are doing is something they expect.
So you ARE doing something, right? You are a developer and can't fill your day with patching Warband, correct?
- I can't confirm I'm a developer, nor that I'm doing anything other than patching Warband, possibly during the day or maybe at night - it's not something that could be shared.
Well, I don't think our audience will like that, but good luck with your work.
- I don't know what are you talking about, but thanks.
 

SOku

Veteran
We waited 8 years for this?!

People who say that usually have no clue on how software developement works anyway, and naturally compare it to your nth Indie game made in Unreal Engine. Without defending TW blindly, it's not rocket science to think that time involved in any developement isn't a flat matter, just because you've done x in 6 months doesn't mean you could deliver y in 6months.
 

Grank

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVC
People who say that usually have no clue on how software developement works anyway
Yes, most people don't. That's why it's a good idea to try minimize the damage. We can't expect everyone to be tolerant and understanding.
 

SOku

Veteran
I agree with you, just saying that we should spend little time on those type of arguments.
With that said, yes PR could help to tackle this.
 
Why do you think this community is so pissed at Taleworlds? Because they talked too much.

First they announced Bannerlord too soon, leading to countless "Bannerlord when" outrage. Then they built up hype with dev blogs and all that.
I knew next to nothing about the game. I sought no info whatsoever during the whole development cycle. I simply played M&B and Warband a bunch in the past.

I had no fixed expectations, except for a better UI (which they've been slowly but surely fulfilling during EA).

And yet still I'm a bit sad that they (so far) couldn't really scratch the surface of what the obvious potential of a medieval sandbox game is. What you can do with concept is basically limitless. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they're working hard, and I appreciate that they're trying.

And yes, my vague statements on the topic are hardly productive feedback, but I don't think they really need broad-in-scope suggestions about interesting mechanics anymore. Rather I feel like they mostly need specific feedback on more or less broken mechanics that result from the in-depth simulation in the lategame and maybe some combat stuff. When, and if, that is fixed, it'll be an alright game in its own right, but it's not going to reach the game pretty much anyone can imagine within 30 minutes of starting the game. Sure, there are some that don't really look at the scope of the game and want it ever bigger, more complex, more meaningful, but I just can't imagine they're the majority, since the sandbox usually doesn't prevent you from enjoying a minimalist "i'm just a roaming mercenary, and just want my battles" part of the game.

The broad strokes "make the game world feel more alive", "make this a real RPG", "make me feel like a King" stuff should be something they already have plentiful ideas toward even before EA release. Even more during the year in EA where players flooded the suggestion forums with thousands of things that address small things that CAN be done to, which would alleviate the feeling of an empty-ish Skinner Box when all taken together.

Tying this all together to the topic of the thread at hand:

I don't know what else people really expect? The roadmaps are fine, and I suspect the major reason of complaint about them is because they don't yet include what you envision that the game should be. But then, I generally don't feel like that TW are all that obscure with their community interaction on here, and think they're doing an okay job with what time and resources they've got, regarding community management.
 
I generally don't feel like that TW are all that obscure with their community interaction on here, and think they're doing an okay job with what time and resources they've got, regarding community management.
Not enough time and resources eh? That's a new one.
Their website disagrees:
TaleWorlds Entertainment is an independent video game development company, founded in 2005. Having grown from the initial two founders, TaleWorlds now employs an international team of over 90 developers, including a self-publishing team.
 
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