Bannerlord is mis-advertised by the devs on Steam (yes, even taking into account Early Access)

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No idea where this game is headed. Will they fix the perks and call it finished? Will they actually add real diplomacy? Meaningful quests?

What I am worried about is the potential danger that at the end of the road, the finished game will actually be less complete than what I imagined EA to be.

Well put.
 
Been playing 7 Days to Die game for 4-5 years. 2500 hours played in that EA game. That game is also Early Access and 7 Days to Die has huge amounts of missing content and bugs. There is other EA games I play also. None of those other EA games seem deceitful and unappreciative of the player base.

Here is the differences between 7 Days to Die(FunPimps) and TaleWorld: FunPimps engages with player base. FunPimps clearly lays out a road map of current content being worked on, that road map gets updated as things change. FunPimps actively talks with the player base on forums about those current activities being worked on.

Here is an honest and direct Early Access Statement from the FunPimps on the Store Page to the prospective buyers/customers of EA purchase:


What the developers have to say:
7 Days to Die thrusts players into the aftermath of the fall of civilization with only their wits and bare hands to survive. In this continually evolving title currently in alpha stage development, players must explore the open world alone or with friends to build tools, weapons and shelter against the dangers of the reanimated dead, infected wildlife and the world itself.”



FunPimps does't try to convince you the game is fully playable, simply says "ALPHA STAGE DEVELOPMENT" and allowed Steam Early Access statement to cover what Early Access means = Missing content, bugs, things will take time, etc...

In addition, 7 days to die makes no mentions of a "targeted timeline to completion".... Again, 7 Days to Die is being honest and not trying to deceive customers.

TaleWorlds made long Early Access statements to deceitfully fool people into thinking the game is almost finished. Bannerlord is FAR from finished, and that is where TaleWorlds goes wrong in the Early Access Statements. The EA statements by TaleWorlds are very clearly intended to make people think the game is worthy enough to charge full price for AND to imply the game is mostly finished again to convince people that the high price is worth it..

TaleWorlds, your EA statements and your actions on these forums and history since EA release are deceitful. The manner in which just the perks in game alone were implemented at release and communicated and handled by TaleWorlds is incredibly wrong and deceitful.


TaleWorlds is not engaging the players in EA, TaleWorlds ONLY did Early Access for additional funding..as evidenced by :

1. Charging a high price for a game that is 3-4 years away from being complete
2. Deceitfully implying the game is close to be finished
3. Not engaging the community in an early access inclusive manner since EA release


TaleWorlds, you could learn a lot from FunPimps or other development shops that engage in Early Access. Your current practices of Early Access are sad.

1 year away, Not by a long shot. Any TaleWorlds developer that says they think or thought Bannerlord would be finished in 1 year is a damn right lier.

There is 1 reason and 1 reason only that TaleWorlds would make mention of "we hope for 1 year away":

Deceitfully convincing potential customers that Bannerlord is close to complete.



My highest hopes for Bannerlord is that another development house buys this Bannerlord property and gets the TW leaders and most of the TW management team of TaleWorlds out the way so the players can be part of an honest, communicative EA process and eventually enjoy a completed product.
 
1. Charging a high price for a game that is 3-4 years away from being complete
2. Deceitfully implying the game is close to be finished
3. Not engaging the community in an early access inclusive manner since EA release

1. They didn't charge a high price. Infact they charged a pretty low price considering most games these days are $59.99, and this one was what, $49.99?
2. I was not at any time under the impression it would definitely be completed in 1 year, just that that was their hope. Your poor reading comprehension is not TW responsibility.
3. I've seen numerous responses just today from devs/CM talking about what's going on with the current code refactoring. They also posted a large update on the state of the game and their current plans a couple weeks ago.
 
1. They didn't charge a high price. Infact they charged a pretty low price considering most games these days are $59.99, and this one was what, $49.99?


Games in early access alpha stage are NOT $59.99 or even $49.99. Only alpha stage Bannerlord is doing that. Going on about a "sale price" is a bunch of crap. TW is marketing an alpha stage game at $49.99, multi- years away from gold status. 2-3 years at best.


TaleWorlds continues to leave up for potential new customers "We hope for 1 year" even though we all know now that 1 year from this date July9, 2020 is not going to happen for Bannerlord to go gold.

3 months have went by since EA release. TW showing very slow progress of filling in the missing game content., YET, The 1 year statement by TaleWorlds still stands for new customers. Huh?

Like to say here, I don't think the TW dev team has been slacking. I do see they are squashing a lot of bugs and making the game better..

BUT..

TaleWorlds deceived customers at early access release and continues to deceive potential new customers about the state of Bannerlord going to a gold status. This deceit and "WTF is TaleWorlds doing" issues is all about the leaders of TaleWorlds and not the grunts pumping out code.

That statement about "Hopefully 1 year" should be changed to 9 months now on the early access statement or better yet Taleworlds, be honest with customers and remove all that crap in your early access statements and just say the game is alpha stage and there is missing content and bugs, with no details provided about what missing and Don't mention a "hopefully date". "unique towns" "voice overs" "some quests" etc.

TaleWorlds are not going to change the Early Access statement because "hopefully 1 year" statement was never a part of reality and "hopefully 1 year" is only there to deceive potential customers.

All the mentions of "what is missing" are all there to lead potential customers into think the game is close to done and deceive the customers into think the full game is enjoyable.

The full game is not enjoyable, really only the battles and arena are enjoyable. Both of those still need work, but at least are worthy in their current stage. The rest of the game "Fully playable" is a damn right lie.


"hopefully 1 year" was never practical from the very beginning and TaleWorlds knew 1 year was not even remotely possible. Sound like even the fan boys knew that when reading the statement. TaleWorlds knew that statement was false when printed also. TaleWorlds continues to leave that deceitful statement for new customers.....for the sole purpose of deceiving potential new customers.

If you know that 1 year is not practical and you print "Hopefully 1 year" to potential customers, that statement is deceitful. Putting disclaimer words like "hopefully" is pathetic. The fact that you feel a need to put disclaimers in a marketing statement says a lot about the integrity and honesty of a product maker. Not mentioning a date at all would be the most honest.


So at what date does "hopefully 1 year" start from? 1 year just magically moves after 3 months now.....The truth is according to you fan boys and obviously from TaleWorlds themselves is that "hopefully 1 year" statement was not realistic from the very start.

So what purpose did TaleWorlds ever have in mention "hopefully 1 year" is the question. What purpose does leaving "hopefully 1 year" in a marketing statement server?

"hopefully 1 year" surely does seem like intended to deceive customer into thinking the game is close to complete.

Go ahead fan boys, spill the beans..Why did TaleWorlds say "hopefully 1 year"...What was TaleWolds purpose in that statement if not to fool potential customers?


Good for you fan boys who knew that "hopefully 1 year" was never accurate from the start. Kudos by the way.. Either you fan boys knew better then the game makers themselves or TaleWorlds knew all along that "hopefully 1 year" was no where close to accurate.

Oh yes, that is right.."hopefully 1 year" is a marketing statement.. We can say anything we want even if decietful to convince the customer to buy...


Get some integrity TaleWorlds leaders. Appreciate your paying players by being upfront honest. You can start today by changing the current EA access statement crap for potential new customers.


Shame on you TaleWorlds. Sell Bannerlord to a reputable company with experienced leaders.
 
Maybe they used the word "hopefully" as it wasn't set in stone and they didn't want khuzait's like you to read it as "definitely will be ready by." But you guys still find a way to get it wrong...
 
Sell Bannerlord to a reputable company with experienced leaders.

Wow! Excessive reaction once again. If they sell it, MB will most probably get ruined.

Clearly your definition with enjoyable and playable is different than mine. Infact game has just as they say missing content like all EA games do. Other than that it's even highly enjoyable until you hit certain progression.
 
Just want to point out that a statement can be true and misleading at the same time. Here is the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission's stance on misleading advertising:

Examples of misleading advertising
  • The advertisement creates a false impression about a product or service, even if the information given is correct.
  • Any important information is hidden or left out.

And this is from the Better Business Bureau's page about misleading advertising and deceptive marketing practices:

To determine whether an advertisement is misleading, the courts consider the "general impression" it conveys, as well as its literal meaning.


Meaning, even if an ad is literally true, if it conveys a "general impression" that is misleading, a court will still find that the ad is misleading.

NOTE: I'm not saying that I think TW's ad is misleading, just wanted to point this out because I think it is relevant to this discussion.
 
According to these fan boys, potential customers are supposed to "know better" that "hopefully 1 year" is not true...

Multiple posts on this thread and the other thread from the fan boys all indications that anyone who believed "hopefully 1 year" was going to be a good ball park figure are fools.

So we are fools for thinking the game would be finished some where around 1 year after that is what the game maker stated...

According to these fan boys and seems TaleWorlds themselves(based on the silence of their seeming deceits) , anyone that bought the game OR buys the game thinking some where near 1 year from now the game will be complete are fools.

Can someone else point out a game in early access alpha stage multi-years away from gold that are marketing Early Access at $49.99 American dollars?

Please bring some evidence to the table fan boys that TW is pricing this Early Access reasonable.

I am making a new post on this topic to start showing "us fools" just how far away TW is from delivering the final product.

Want to make clear again here: I am not upset about TW taking years from today to finish, I am upset because I feel cheated and deceived by TaleWorlds and TaleWorlds is continuing to deceive potential new customers.

Been part of many Early Access game for many years now, up your fan boys saying we don't what Early Access means. Other developers are not deceiving customers like I see TW doing for Early Access state, a deception that TW is pulling all in the name of justifying charging customers a high price to alpha stage product.
 
Inappropriate behavior
<snip>

I guess everyone just wants communication what´s up with the next patch. Will it improve AI? Will it add new scenes? Do we get rid of this "This is a generic backstory" stuff? Will perks work?
 
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Meaning, even if an ad is literally true, if it conveys a "general impression" that is misleading, a court will still find that the ad is misleading.

Thank you! Whether one agrees or not that TW has been/are running a misleading EA campaign, the "it's technically correct" crowd doesn't have a leg to stand on. I love Futurama, but "technically correct" is not, in fact, the best kind of correct.
 
Thank you! Whether one agrees or not that TW has been/are running a misleading EA campaign, the "it's technically correct" crowd doesn't have a leg to stand on. I love Futurama, but "technically correct" is not, in fact, the best kind of correct.
A "general impression" is quite subjective though.
IIRC even NMS/HG won in court so I guess you really need to **** up that general impression...
 
A "general impression" is quite subjective though.

True.

IIRC even NMS/HG won in court so I guess you really need to **** up that general impression...

Well yeah. I don't think anyone is seriously considering taking TW to court - but there's a lot of room for predatory/misleading practices (and therefore fair game for criticism) without it being clear-cut enough to make a case of. For the record I'd never personally bother with a court case either, that's blowing things out of proportion.

That I happen to think games/software companies in general are given way too much lenience compared to other trades/businesses is another matter (and not related specifically to this situation). Probably more to do with the fact that society (and therefore legislation) has not quite caught up with just how big a business it is.
 
True.



Well yeah. I don't think anyone is seriously considering taking TW to court - but there's a lot of room for predatory/misleading practices (and therefore fair game for criticism) without it being clear-cut enough to make a case of. For the record I'd never personally bother with a court case either, that's blowing things out of proportion.

That I happen to think games/software companies in general are given way too much lenience compared to other trades/businesses is another matter (and not related specifically to this situation). Probably more to do with the fact that society (and therefore legislation) has not quite caught up with just how big a business it is.
I don't know. Take a look at movie trailers or a book cover. Nobody would get the idea to sue an author because they didn't like their book and yet it's a reoccurring theme on gaming forums.
In my opinion, someone who gets easily manipulated shouldn't be trusted with money or they should blame themselves when they are not happy with their purchase.
In regards to Bannerlord, some people actually managed to manipulate and trick themselves, otherwise it would be impossible to miss all the warning and disclaimers in the EA description. TW literally told them to not buy the game.
So now they blame TW for their own stupidity and they aren't man enough to admit that they made a mistake. That's as low as it gets.

Which doesn't mean there is no place for constructive criticism and even some rants. Sometimes people need to vent when they are frustrated and the state of the game is far from finished.
 
I don't know. Take a look at movie trailers or a book cover. Nobody would get the idea to sue an author because they didn't like their book and yet it's a reoccurring theme on gaming forums.

People have actually sued (and won) based on movie trailers showing content that didn't appear in the final movie. As for not judging a book by its cover, I believe that's a fairly well-known adage, but that's not what we're talking about.

In my opinion, someone who gets easily manipulated shouldn't be trusted with money or they should blame themselves when they are not happy with their purchase.

So you agree TW's EA description is manipulative and trying to con people into a purchase they wouldn't have made if they'd known the true state of the product they bought?

In regards to Bannerlord, some people actually managed to manipulate and trick themselves, otherwise it would be impossible to miss all the warning and disclaimers in the EA description. TW literally told them to not buy the game.
So now they blame TW for their own stupidity and they aren't man enough to admit that they made a mistake. That's as low as it gets.

People manipulated and tricked themselves? I should have known you would find a way to make this the customer's fault. Forgive me for giving you the benefit of the doubt for a second there. But hey, you're right about one thing: the people who bought this product (or any future TW product) are stupid and deserved to be tricked. Of course to blindly defend that position is not stupid and a case of refusing to admit a mistake at all.

Which doesn't mean there is no place for constructive criticism

By which you mean your version of constructive, ie not criticism at all, but praise for the TW overlords who, in their mercy, have given us this flawless game-to-end-all-games.

Absurd, yes, but just look at the mountain of "it's EA", "you're just salty bro", "you have no life" and similar that gets thrown at anyone who dares raise their voice in dissent.

Sometimes people need to vent when they are frustrated and the state of the game is far from finished.

You say the words but your actions seem to indicate you either don't understand or believe them.
 
People have actually sued (and won) based on movie trailers showing content that didn't appear in the final movie. As for not judging a book by its cover, I believe that's a fairly well-known adage, but that's not what we're talking about.
So at the point of purchase, what did TW show that isn't included in the game? Regarding book covers, yes, that's exactly what we are talking about.



So you agree TW's EA description is manipulative and trying to con people into a purchase they wouldn't have made if they'd known the true state of the product they bought?
Not at all, in fact TW is telling people to not buy the game.



People manipulated and tricked themselves? I should have known you would find a way to make this the customer's fault. Forgive me for giving you the benefit of the doubt for a second there. But hey, you're right about one thing: the people who bought this product (or any future TW product) are stupid and deserved to be tricked. Of course to blindly defend that position is not stupid and a case of refusing to admit a mistake at all.
If people can't take responsibility for their own actions it explains the sad state of the world.



By which you mean your version of constructive, ie not criticism at all, but praise for the TW overlords who, in their mercy, have given us this flawless game-to-end-all-games.
Stop trolling, I didn't say anything like that.

Absurd, yes, but just look at the mountain of "it's EA", "you're just salty bro", "you have no life" and similar that gets thrown at anyone who dares raise their voice in dissent.
You can raise your voice as much as you want, just don't expect anyone to agree with you when you say stupid things.



You say the words but your actions seem to indicate you either don't understand or believe them.
Which actions?
 
Which actions?

You can raise your voice as much as you want, just don't expect anyone to agree with you when you say stupid things.

Those actions: continually arguing and belittling those who criticize the game. You say you accept criticism yet you attack anyone who does so. In the last two posts alone you have called them:
easily manipulated
shouldn't be trusted with money
they should blame themselves
their own stupidity
aren't man enough to admit that they made a mistake
you say stupid things

Sense a theme there? And all that hostility because...what? They dared criticize a broken product?

Maybe you're trying to convince yourself that you are the smart one, and it's all those other stupid whining people who were tricked, I don't know, your motivations seem very odd indeed.
 
Those actions: continually arguing and belittling those who criticize the game. You say you accept criticism yet you attack anyone who does so. In the last two posts alone you have called them:







Sense a theme there? And all that hostility because...what? They dared criticize a broken product?

Maybe you're trying to convince yourself that you are the smart one, and it's all those other stupid whining people who were tricked, I don't know, your motivations seem very odd indeed.
LOL, do you even read your own posts?!
 
My opinion on this is simple, don't buy an EA game if you are not passionate about helping the devs make a great game.

Play fully released games until the game is finished and you will be astonished by how amazing this game will be
 
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