Bannerlord is fine, we just have to adapt to it

Users who are viewing this thread

daxiapi777

Sergeant
There have been many complaints about the state of the game: lacking depth, missing features, not enough communication, possible ideas, etc.. Some of them are solid concerns but many are completely missing the mark. In my humble opinion, those arguably 'misguided' complaints are mainly due to unrealistic expectations; and contradicting common recognition, those unrealistic expectations have very little to do with 'the game is just in EA'. Therefore, it is very important to adjust your expectations, especially for the new players.

I think this is what happened: TW is a small indie studio (maybe not in size or profitability anymore, but definitely in organization and management) that happened to create a successful formula that attracts more attention and expectations than it can possibly handle. It's simply not within their capacity.

They will finish the game in due time. But it will most likely be very basic and 'depth deprived' as many people would call it. This is how native M&B and Warband have always been - a good formula that constitutes a good foundation. Bannerlord would most likely follow suit. The finished product would still miss most of those fancy mechanics, some of which are actually expected by many to be basic features, and for those to be realized, we need modders' efforts. M&B titles are good games, but what made them great are the mods. Mods don't complete the game, but they did lead M&B to where it is standing now.

All in all, my suggestion is: adjust your expectations and hope for the best. Every paid customer is entitled to a finished product. We could push the devs to make the game better (considering it's in EA and not finished), and that never-ending bargaining process and chess game are how the market economy works. However, try to be reasonable and control your expectations. Getting too frustrated because of unrealistic expectations won't help the state of the game, and more importantly, it won't help your life experience, which is what really matters and why we play games in the first place.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit: I have been following the discussion and found some interesting points. I found people have some interesting ideas about the relationships between the native game and mods. And people are comparing TW with other game devs in terms of communication and business model, which I think is part of the 'unrealistic expectation' problem. The following are some general approaches adopted by certain game studios concerning their release model and how they treat mods. Hopefully, this will help the discussion and help adjust people's expectations.

1. Tale World model: create a successful formula that constitutes a good foundation; the base game needs to be expanded by mods.
2. Skyrim model: an already fairly decent game in its own right; mods are used to enhance the game experience and satisfy the demands of certain groups of players.
3. Paradox model: create a successful formula that constitutes a good foundation; the devs are capable of expanding the games by themselves and sell these as DLCs.
4. Total war/Civilization model (mainly pre Warhammer): an already fairly decent game in its own right; the devs are capable of expanding the games by themselves and sell these as expansions.
Modern AAA game as a service model is a very different approach thus would not be covered here.

The point is most of us have played a wide range of titles, had experience with multiple game studios; but TW has their own way of doing things - mainly constrained by their capacity imo - therefore, it is not helpful to expect the same or similar response from TW as from other devs.
 
Last edited:

Senko

Sergeant
While Bannerlord is fun, it could have been far far better. It certainly wasn't worth the wait.
Yes, they started the engine over mid development, but they are not new at making Mount & Blade games. They've been around for some time now.
Easy mistakes like crappy unit stats on high tier troops should have been obvious after a minimum of playtesting.
There is also barlely any writing or dialog, something that could have been easily improved upon. It's still barren like old Mount & Blade titles.
No events or anything interesting happening in the world. They had a lot of time to brainstorm.

Doesn't mean i don't enjoy the game. I still hope for the best :p
And looking forward to the great mods that are coming.
 

quietresolve

Regular
I totally agree with you that TW is a small organization that simply can't handle such a large project... So yea I don't know what to expect
 
There have been many complaints about the state of the game: lacking depth, missing features, not enough communication, possible ideas, etc.. Some of them are solid concerns but many are completely missing the mark. In my humble opinion, those arguably 'misguided' complaints are mainly due to unrealistic expectations; and contradicting common recognition, those unrealistic expectations have very little to do with 'the game is just in EA'. Therefore, it is very important to adjust your expectations, especially for the new players.

I think this is what happened: TW is a small indie studio (maybe not in size or profitability anymore, but definitely in organization and management) that happened to create a successful formula that attracts more attention and expectations than it can possibly handle. It's simply not within their capacity.

They will finish the game in due time. But it will most likely be very basic and 'depth deprived' as many people would call it. This is how native M&B and Warband have always been - a good formula that constitutes a good foundation. Bannerlord would most likely follow suit. The finished product would still miss most of those fancy mechanics, some of which are actually expected by many to be basic features, and for those to be realized, we need modders' efforts. M&B titles are good games, but what made them great are the mods. Mods don't complete the game, but they did lead M&B to where it is standing now.

All in all, my suggestion is: adjust your expectations and hope for the best. Every paid customer is entitled to a finished product. We could push the devs to make the game better (considering it's in EA and not finished), and that never-ending bargaining process and chess game are how the market economy works. However, try to be reasonable and control your expectations. Getting too frustrated because of unrealistic expectations won't help the state of the game, and more importantly, it won't help your life experience, which is what really matters and why we play games in the first place.

All the comments above are missing the OP's mark. Your perspective is how you view life. If you want to have a good video game experience, wish and will it so, and you will have one. Bannerlord in its current state is FUN, AND ENJOYABLE. Have fun, new and improved content, QoL will arrive in due time.
 
I think the issue is that BL is still a WIP, which is completely fine. It's just many game design choices are splitting the community, with some areas being better explored in mods/DLC like stevehoos says.

5min 500vs500 battles is an example. In VC, Pendor, even Native these battles would be long, with many hiatus' between engagements as forces regroup before engaging again. The AI simply do not allow for that in this game, and it is all a mix between the individual, formation and tactical AI.

As soon as forces engage, it becomes a cluster, despite your best efforts of holding an organized shield wall. Advance is simply too unpredictable, and charge causes chaos. It can look beautiful having action all around, but the battles end up being short because of the AI's clear lack of wanting to live by constantly swinging wildly and rarely pulling back to form up and skirmish. This is further emphasized by having a clear attacker/defender set up, despite pitch battles being fairly mutual with both sides watching and reacting to each other's movements as opposed to one being the 'all-out attacker' and defender.

There are other examples such as crafting having stamina instead of time progression relative to the project, but I digress.
 

kweassa

Sergeant at Arms
Viking Conquest should not blow this game away after 8 years, sorry I respectfully disagree.

It's called the "rosy pink memories" effect.

Everything that happened in the past, just seems better, even if by all standards is inferior to the reality as of current.
 

stevehoos

Banned
It's called the "rosy pink memories" effect.

Everything that happened in the past, just seems better, even if by all standards is inferior to the reality as of current.

The tournaments in Bannerlord are the dullest in any of the 15 or so major mods I have played. Go play Bannerpage mod, it's active right now, nothing past about it. Bannerlord is a non atmospheric shell compared to it.
 
It's called the "rosy pink memories" effect.

Everything that happened in the past, just seems better, even if by all standards is inferior to the reality as of current.
Wrong. Just check which features are missing in Bannerlord from Warband, I am not even talking about Viking Conquest.
 

kweassa

Sergeant at Arms
The tournaments in Bannerlord are the dullest in any of the 15 or so major mods I have played. Go play Bannerpage mod, it's active right now, nothing past about it. Bannerlord is a non atmospheric shell compared to it.

The base tournament format is neither any more or less dull than MB1 or Warband because it's essentially the same thing, and all of those "15 major mods" or so are more dull than the Tekken 7 or Streetfighter 5 I've played.

You're speaking of preference based on incorrect facts, and dumping it on the game to smear it. The tournament format and AI is almost exactly the same. The way it is played is the same. Even the same side-step exploit works the same.

If the best evidence you have is "I just feel this is inferior," you really need to step up your argument, or take of those rosy-pink glasses.
 
The tournaments in Bannerlord are the dullest in any of the 15 or so major mods I have played. Go play Bannerpage mod, it's active right now, nothing past about it. Bannerlord is a non atmospheric shell compared to it.
+1
Tournaments, Marschals, Feasts, Romances, Inability to hire as many companions as you want etc etc etc
 

stevehoos

Banned
The base tournament format is neither any more or less dull than MB1 or Warband because it's essentially the same thing, and all of those "15 major mods" or so are more dull than the Tekken 7 or Streetfighter 5 I've played.

You're speaking of preference based on incorrect facts, and dumping it on the game to smear it. The tournament format and AI is almost exactly the same. The way it is played is the same. Even the same side-step exploit works the same.

If the best evidence you have is "I just feel this is inferior," you really need to step up your argument, or take of those rosy-pink glasses.

Step up my argument? Your argument begins with an assertion of the past, it's non sequitur right out of the gate. I just explained why. You need to take the rosy glasses off.
 

kweassa

Sergeant at Arms
Step up my argument? Your argument begins with an assertion of the past, it's non sequitur right out of the gate. I just explained why. You need to take the rosy glasses off.

So where's the actual refutation?

1. Your concept of what's "dull" or "exciting" is a part of your preference, and does not have objective weight
2. The tournament formats are essentially the same, and therefore, your argument is biased upon a non-existent variable. It's false.

Two simple points I make in refutation, and the next immediate response is a jab at the "attitude."



+1
Tournaments, Marschals, Feasts, Romances, Inability to hire as many companions as you want etc etc etc

Of course, leave out the fact each and every single one of those things plus the "etc" all had arguments in the past against it for balance reasons.

See, this is the problem with you people. You just count what's here and not here, without really dwelling into the why, or how the quality has changed.

You don't really have a point. You're just acting out a vendetta.
 

stevehoos

Banned
So where's the actual refutation?

1. Your concept of what's "dull" or "exciting" is a part of your preference, and does not have objective weight
2. The tournament formats are essentially the same, and therefore, your argument is biased upon a non-existent variable. It's false.

Two simple points I make in refutation, and the next immediate response is a jab at the "attitude."





Of course, leave out the fact each and every single one of those things plus the "etc" all had arguments in the past against it for balance reasons.

See, this is the problem with you people. You just count what's here and not here, without really dwelling into the why, or how the quality has changed.

You don't really have a point. You're just acting out a vendetta.

Go play some mods for M&B, seriously. Bannerpage is available for download right now. You are more than welcome to love the Bannerlord atmosphere, don't let me stop you LOL.
 

kweassa

Sergeant at Arms
(ps) Not to mention, since you people are so keen to drag in VC you loved so much, I must also mention how funny and absurd it is, in the way none of you seem to remember the initial buggy, unoptimized mess it was, with a significant amount of comments criticizing it for just simply being an amalgamation of certain mods.

Yep. All this noisy past is suddenly gone off the record, and all that's left is a beautiful, rosy pink memory of a superior game.
 
Of course, leave out the fact each and every single one of those things plus the "etc" all had arguments in the past against it for balance reasons.
I was absolutely fine with balance in previous titles. And oppositely balancing in Bannerlord seems ridiculous. The game is too fast paced. Average gamesave is done under 35 hours.
 
Top Bottom