Bannerlord infantry movement needs slower strafing

[yedrellow]

I'm pretty sure multiplayer combat will be just as cancerous as it is now in M&B in any case, high strafe speed or not.
While in singleplayer higher speed just makes gameplay slightly more comfortable.

Also, it's so nitpicky, imo.
Like "the third soldier from the left, his mail, the fifth row from the bottom, the 27th column from the right, the ring is too shiny, please lower brightness by 2.7 points".

I don't really agree with it being nitpicky. Movement is pretty much one of the most important aspects of the combat system. The reason why I think that this movement style will negatively impact the gameplay experience of Bannerlord is that it does very little to force combat. With that extremely high strafing speed, escape is trivial. If escaping your opponent is trivial, then the game will be just as much about kiting than actual combat.

 

[Apocal]

What the hell is up with this fetish of seperating everything into classes into something akin to Overwatch?

“Light armor” wasn’t even a term until Skyrim came up with it

I remember there was "light armor" in D&D 3.5 and in Dragon Age Origins. Probably even before that. The idea of light armor in medieval/fantasy warfare has been around for a long, long time. That being said, I agree that combined with slower attacks and faster movement speed, it seems pretty much like the meta will move towards being dominated by mobility.

 

[lolbash]

What the hell is up with this fetish of seperating everything into classes into something akin to Overwatch?

“Light armor” wasn’t even a term until Skyrim came up with it

I remember there was "light armor" in D&D 3.5 and in Dragon Age Origins. Probably even before that. The idea of light armor in medieval/fantasy warfare has been around for a long, long time. That being said, I agree that combined with slower attacks and faster movement speed, it seems pretty much like the meta will move towards being dominated by mobility.

I was throwing a ballpark estimate based on anecdotal experience, but yeah, I was explaining how the concept of “light armor” having advantages over heavy armor is stupid.

 

[Scarf Ace]

What the hell is up with this fetish of seperating everything into classes into something akin to Overwatch?

“Light armor” wasn’t even a term until Skyrim came up with it

I remember there was "light armor" in D&D 3.5 and in Dragon Age Origins. Probably even before that. The idea of light armor in medieval/fantasy warfare has been around for a long, long time. That being said, I agree that combined with slower attacks and faster movement speed, it seems pretty much like the meta will move towards being dominated by mobility.

I was throwing a ballpark estimate based on anecdotal experience, but yeah, I was explaining how the concept of “light armor” having advantages over heavy armor is stupid.

Well, there's a bit more nuance to the whole "heavy armour" thing.
Late medieval plate armour is great stuff, that's true. Even then, people did set different priorities in terms of what they wanted their armour to do. There are certain features that entail a more cavalry-specific type of armour - these did deliberately put some limits on your mobility, for protective reasons. The extreme form was of course tournament armour. Armours that prioritise dismounted combat, which were very popular in England for example (English knights had a thing for fighting on foot) not only are designed for superb mobility, but also even better coverage, as if you're fighting on foot, it'll be easier to target weak points.
In a sense then, the more mobile armour is no more a "light" than the cavalry one, but what I want to point out here is that some forms of armour did restrict your mobility, and with good reason.

Now, we have to take into account that in the timeframe Bannerlord is based on, this stuff didn't even exist yet! And here's the crux of the matter: The armour depicted in Bannerlord is not as sophisticated as the stuff we've been talking about.
Cataphract-style armour definitely did inhibit mobility to a fair degree and it most certainly was properly heavy. This is stuff that just wasn't designed for dismounted use. The precisely tailored nature of plate armour is what made it so great. If you leave that out, but still retain extreme coverage, you will encounter limitations.
However, this means that only the most extreme stuff of a sort only a few factions have really counts as "heavy armour". Even the 13th century style mail and coat-of-plates the heaviest-armoured Vlandians wear wouldn't fall in this category! Hell, it probably wouldn't even count for some cataphract armours.

 

[CloakDagger]

Gamers will expect strafing. Yes, a living person doesn't respond to sideways movements in a tenth of a second, but gamers will expect them to.
Also keep in mind that juking a bit side to side is also important for depth perception since we only have a single computer screen.
It is also important to see what's behind the person running straight at you.

It is a pretty tall order to have a battle mechanic that will allow single players to have an expected degree of freedom without multiplayer turning into a juke fest.
Forward movement should be faster, but I think there is a cut-off point in which "in-real-life" concerns would make gameplay suffer.

I think devs are well advised to not put frustratingly unresponsive controls just because a normal person wouldn't be able to kiting the range of a sword. The kiting is just a substitute for whatever other evasions that would be available.

 

[lolbash]

Cloak, people in warband alread move slower when strafing, however, no one I know complains about how slow it is. If they would have just kept it the same as warband no one would be complaining.

 

[Apocal]

I was throwing a ballpark estimate based on anecdotal experience, but yeah, I was explaining how the concept of “light armor” having advantages over heavy armor is stupid.

In-game, giving some advantages to promote equipment diversity is OK, at least in my opinion. I think they generally **** it up though, by underestimating how powerful a tool mobility can be in skill hands. And what we've been shown in this clip pretty much confirms no one at TW was thinking that cunning plan all the way through. So I am right there with you: this is something that probably needs a second (or third or however many it takes) look before it gets called final.

On the plus side, good job to TW to letting us have a little peek, so they get the feedback before the game is out and a bunch of people get used to it and come to muddy the waters with justifications on how it is A-OK.

I think devs are well advised to not put frustratingly unresponsive controls just because a normal person wouldn't be able to kiting the range of a sword. The kiting is just a substitute for whatever other evasions that would be available.

People are asking for the same movement system that already exists in Warband.

 

[Honved]

Granted, most medieval armor doesn't significantly impact your freedom of movement, and most of it was under 40Kg.  On the other hand, trying to make a rapid change of direction while lugging an additional 25-35Kg of weight (mostly bearing on your shoulders) is going to be sluggish, due to the inertia of your body mass PLUS that of the armor.  I can see side-stepping at not too far short of the speeds show, even though it would leave you dangerously unstable, but I CANNOT agree with the rapid changes of direction.  The video looks like its about 25% faster than real life.

"Turret legs" is a good description.  When you're firing arrows from 20 yards away, and the target makes 3-4 rapid reverses in direction within about 2 seconds, you can't even figure out which side to lead them on, much less by how far.  People can't shift their center of balance and mass that quickly, regardless of whether they're in heavy chain mail from head to foot or wearing nothing but a loincloth.

On top of all that, plate mail was rare and insanely expensive at that point in time.  The metallurgy wasn't that well developed yet (some low grade steel, and a lot more iron), and chain was still the primary form of protection, often with partial plate over some key areas.  Plate armor could be made fairly light and still strong, but chain was heavier, and significantly so.

 

[lolbash]

In-game, giving some advantages to promote equipment diversity is OK, at least in my opinion. I think they generally **** it up though, by underestimating how powerful a tool mobility can be in skill hands.

I think we already had something like this in Warbamd already. Atheletics skill changes how fast you run.

 

[Danate]

Just play other games it’s never coming out.

 

[bladeex]

Just play other games it’s never coming out.

Trust me they will release it when everybody forgot about the game

 

[Zombie Warrior]

Just play other games it’s never coming out.

Trust me they will release it when everybody forgot about the game

This will take a very long time.

 

[FBohler]

One thing that caught my eye in regards to the recent bannerlord devblog is the below gif

Something that is weird about this is the way that people seem to be able to move sideways at almost the same speed they move forwards. The two polearm users in the foreground show the consequences of this. Both people are able to disengage and re-engage continuously rather than being stuck in a continuous engagement. This sort of movement has existed in the past in the form of War of the Roses, and personally I believe that it is inferior to the form of movement we have seen in warband.

For those unfamiliar, side-strafing in warband is almost at a walking pace, and backward movement is also significantly slower than forward movement. This walking is superior to the jogging sideways movement as it forces people to turn their back to attempt to disengage; it is impossible to merely strafe and turn away.  Changing this movement will also help remove potential issues with long reach kiting, as it will allow people with shorter reach to close distance more efficiently. I can't tell how slow the backwards movement is from this .gif, but I am not discounting the need to tinker with that as well.

I think your point is extremely valid.
Congratulations for being able to spot such a tiny detail that many didn't notice, maybe even TW.

 

[lolbash]

update, this guy running backwards is running on the same speed as someone running foward

 

[FBohler]

update, this guy running backwards is running on the same speed as someone running foward

I hope they balance this out.