Varrak 说:It's really hard to please this community
I know you're kind of joking but "the community" is comprised of thousands of people. It is by definition impossible to please. If everybody here agreed on anything, I'd be worried.
-
If you are reporting a bug, please head over to our Technical Support section for Bannerlord.
Bannerlord infantry movement needs slower strafing
- 主题发起人 yedrellow
- 开始时间
正在查看此主题的用户
I know you're kind of joking but "the community" is comprised of thousands of people. It is by definition impossible to please. If everybody here agreed on anything, I'd be worried.
a slower strafe speed would piss me off
lolbash 说:
I get your concern here, but honestly, it is not like the player in heavy armor is going to let the light-armored individual simply run up and smack him. At least not without a counterstrike. I would honestly like to see more of a differential between heavy armor users and light, Viking Reforged did a pretty good job of this, I think.
As you've said, it all depends on beta-testing, which I hope they will implement before final release. As excited and patient as I am for the release, I would really like it if the community got a chance to work out some of the kinks (we know will be there). I'm occupied by far too many games that have been released before their readiness was at hand, such as 7 Days to Die, and PUBG.
lolbash
Master Knight
This is under the assumption that the light and heavy armored person are equally skilled in terms of melee.
Hell no. Its not realistic because armor is not that heavy at all in real life. See Jacob’s quote about how medieval armor is actually lighter than the equipment soldiers carry today.
ＪＡＣＶＢＨＩＮＤＳ // 寒心４２０? 说:
And it is not fun at all because of the situation I proposed above.
I would prefer that you would win fights with player skill and the type of weapons you use, and not because of the shirt you’re wearing.
What the hell is up with this fetish of seperating everything into classes into something akin to Overwatch?
“Light armor” wasn’t even a term until Skyrim came up with it
@lolbash
First, I am not eager to sort through all the quotes, so bare with me.
Concerning player melee skill: That could be said for the reverse as well, in a way. If I am not so skilled at melee combat and I wear light/no armor, and I come at you for a "poke", chances are (if you are a highly skilled player wearing heavy armor) you'll know the limitations of your gear choice and how to work around them. My "poke" would be evaded/parried/blocked and you'd get your chance for a swing.
- Not very concise, but I hope you get what I'm putting down. Player skill will always determine who gets to "poke" who, regardless of armor choice. If you get poked, you messed up.
Concerning weight differential: There is more to medieval armor than weight, for example movement obstruction and visibility. Soldiers today might carry more, but they're not obstructed by full-plate, or having a can on your head with a slit for vision. I imagine it is easier to move around in Kevlar, than it is plate mail. I am also not saying I want class differences (your response directed to me, but I feel it is related to what I am saying), however there is definitely a difference in running around naked, and wearing full armor. Of course, differing weight between these two extremes will have their relative effect.
- Thoughts?
First, I am not eager to sort through all the quotes, so bare with me.
Concerning player melee skill: That could be said for the reverse as well, in a way. If I am not so skilled at melee combat and I wear light/no armor, and I come at you for a "poke", chances are (if you are a highly skilled player wearing heavy armor) you'll know the limitations of your gear choice and how to work around them. My "poke" would be evaded/parried/blocked and you'd get your chance for a swing.
- Not very concise, but I hope you get what I'm putting down. Player skill will always determine who gets to "poke" who, regardless of armor choice. If you get poked, you messed up.
Concerning weight differential: There is more to medieval armor than weight, for example movement obstruction and visibility. Soldiers today might carry more, but they're not obstructed by full-plate, or having a can on your head with a slit for vision. I imagine it is easier to move around in Kevlar, than it is plate mail. I am also not saying I want class differences (your response directed to me, but I feel it is related to what I am saying), however there is definitely a difference in running around naked, and wearing full armor. Of course, differing weight between these two extremes will have their relative effect.
- Thoughts?
lolbash
Master Knight
You’re missing the point
Why are you trying to place the blame of balance on player skill? This is literally the same thing as this scenario.
Not only that, how exactly are you going to get around the “limitations of your gear choice and how to work around them”
As of right now, there is absolutely no way to make yourself run faster. Wearing heavy armor is a disadvantage, period.
These effects are insanely insignificant compared to the advantages that they give you in the medieval perios (near invincibility against arrows and melee)
Bull****. People during the medieval times are not that stupid to consider the movement of the person when wearing armor. Watch this video. The man wearing a full set of 15th century plate armor can climb walls, run, and do a frontflip just fine. Blacksmiths are not stupid.
The differences are not so extreme that a fully armored knight is literally a walking metal turtle who can’t see past a 40 degree field of vision.
—————————————-
I still think this is stupid. We don’t need 2 different sets of armor. Wearing a jacket won’t make you run faster. All of this seems to be telling me that you get most of your information of medieval combat off Hollywood movies and video games.
The myth that heavy armor is insanely heavy needs to stop.
We don’t need Overwatch with swords . We need Bannerlord, a medieval combat RPG that atleast tries to adhere to realism. Last thing we need is some “light armor” that came straight out of skyrim.
Deleted.
To turn this in to something constructive, I think we need to figure out how slow the side-strafe actually needs to be relative to the forward movement. I would start with something on the order of 60% of what is shown in the .gif. I am not claiming sidestepping footwork should be removed from the game, I just believe that the quickest axis of movement should generally be forward, and combatants should be at risk when they attempt to disengage by running away.
One big implication of any change to infantry movement is cavalry vs infantry balance, and even to some extent archer effectiveness. More omnidirectional infantry movement weakens cavalry by increasing the ability to dodge. It also affects archer effectiveness by modifying their ability to dodge and escape inf/cav, as well as changing the movement patterns of their targets. At the moment, with movement being omnidirectional, cavalry has to be quite maneuverable or impactful to be able to counter the agile infantry. If you decrease infantry agility, then footwork against cavalry will by necessity be way more difficult.
One big implication of any change to infantry movement is cavalry vs infantry balance, and even to some extent archer effectiveness. More omnidirectional infantry movement weakens cavalry by increasing the ability to dodge. It also affects archer effectiveness by modifying their ability to dodge and escape inf/cav, as well as changing the movement patterns of their targets. At the moment, with movement being omnidirectional, cavalry has to be quite maneuverable or impactful to be able to counter the agile infantry. If you decrease infantry agility, then footwork against cavalry will by necessity be way more difficult.
Lolbash made an excellent post there and the response is "wow your argument totally beats mine. You're unintelligent though lol"
Has anybody seen evidence of movement acceleration in bannerlord yet? It made a lot of sense in warband and might help alleviate some concern.
Has anybody seen evidence of movement acceleration in bannerlord yet? It made a lot of sense in warband and might help alleviate some concern.
You should really try to take part in a thread here for purposes other than to sling insults at random people, I recommend it.Triune Impurity Rites 999 说:
yedrellow 说:
I think Warband already struck a pretty good balance in this respect.
I'd say dodging cavalry feels just about as hard as it should be. If strafing is significantly sped up relative to forward movement, (and let's be honest, this thread is all based on conjecture, we can't at all be sure) then the next question would be how horse handling has changed. Faster strafing also potentially means being a harder target for archers. There are many fields in which minor changes to movement speed can have some rather big effects.
KhergitLancer80
Banned
+Scarf Ace
I still think it is easier than it should have been.
1-Jumping and killing a horsemen with a 1h sword is too damn easy. I dont think such think happened very often especially when the cav was galloping at the full speed.
2-Blocking lances are also very easy. They should balance it at least by putting a timing limitation to it like ''you should do block at least less than 0.8 seconds before the attack''
I remember a guy by simply holding his block can prevent 10 lance attacks in a row and the block doesnt even stop after the attack so even if it is 3 cavs attacking him at the same time from the same direction he can block all three of them.
In order to kill him you need to be an experienced cav so that you can hit him with your horse and attack him at the same time which is impossible for 80%of the players.
-Good thing that we now have a second attack type for lance(over-shoulder attack) but I still think a timing limit like 0.8-1.0 second should be the case.
-Jumping seems to be nerfed(I hope it is indeed the case) even a nude guy cant jump and spin 180 degrees like in WB. I mean players shouldnt be able to do that it looks absurd.
-But I think in return they should add bracing ability to spearmen and also they should fix the ''cav being able to block everything with shield bug'' for good.
Cav will be nerfed greatly in the game people, because unlike WB troops can cover their formations better so I think these are needed.
I still think it is easier than it should have been.
1-Jumping and killing a horsemen with a 1h sword is too damn easy. I dont think such think happened very often especially when the cav was galloping at the full speed.
2-Blocking lances are also very easy. They should balance it at least by putting a timing limitation to it like ''you should do block at least less than 0.8 seconds before the attack''
I remember a guy by simply holding his block can prevent 10 lance attacks in a row and the block doesnt even stop after the attack so even if it is 3 cavs attacking him at the same time from the same direction he can block all three of them.
In order to kill him you need to be an experienced cav so that you can hit him with your horse and attack him at the same time which is impossible for 80%of the players.
-Good thing that we now have a second attack type for lance(over-shoulder attack) but I still think a timing limit like 0.8-1.0 second should be the case.
-Jumping seems to be nerfed(I hope it is indeed the case) even a nude guy cant jump and spin 180 degrees like in WB. I mean players shouldnt be able to do that it looks absurd.
-But I think in return they should add bracing ability to spearmen and also they should fix the ''cav being able to block everything with shield bug'' for good.
Cav will be nerfed greatly in the game people, because unlike WB troops can cover their formations better so I think these are needed.
I'm inclined to agree with this, Napoleonic (and a bunch of mods) got rid of jump attacks for a reason. That isn't a perfect solution though, as I think jump attacks are at the very least a fun feature.KhergitLancer80 说:
So yeah, ideally everything surrounding jumps wound need to be heavily tweaked.
Again, I gotta admit this is a good idea. Standing around down-blocking with no need for timing shouldn't be an effective way of saving yourself against a lance poke.
I think we don't really know enough about cav yet - I bet horse handling will be more up to date in Bannerlord, probably opening up some new possibilities for cav players.
I'm pretty sure multiplayer combat will be just as cancerous as it is now in M&B in any case, high strafe speed or not.yedrellow 说:
While in singleplayer higher speed just makes gameplay slightly more comfortable.
Also, it's so nitpicky, imo.
Like "the third soldier from the left, his mail, the fifth row from the bottom, the 27th column from the right, the ring is too shiny, please lower brightness by 2.7 points".
For me, horse animation is a bit laggy when horsemen touches the infantry or other obstacle. Not only in this gif, but in older mp videos too. It's just me?
I noticed that as well. It might be a built in delay to give time for the collision calculations, as the Total War games often have something similar. Even so it look pretty strange and would feel much worse if you were actually on the horse.
Leonion 说:
While I can certainly agree that faster...everything..is better in singleplayer, especially when you're a one man genocide that has to do most of the heavy lifting in most battles, over the top strafing or backpedaling in multiplayer is definitely not superficial. Generally speaking I would say that footwork is as important (or perhaps even more important) than the ability to block and attack. If that is messed up in even a small way it will radically change the way combat is approached from more experienced players. Looking at that .gif, if that build of combat goes forward with it's extremely slow attack animations mixed with lightning fast non-forward movement speed, most battles between two players will probably degenerate into people ducking backwards and forwards and not even bothering to block most of the time due to not having to. I dunno about anyone else but that from my opinion would really be a step backwards.
It's not even the speed. It's they have turret leg syndrome. They are effectively moving like mechas. Instead of looking like combat, instead of looking like actual dodges, it looks like a weird interpretive dance.
In addition, while people are quick to make note of the fact that armour is not significantly heavy, they take it too far in assuming that it's feather-light, or that it doesn't weigh you down at all. The issue is it is somewhat heavy, and it does make a difference in how fast you can move. Not majorly, but enough to be significant.
But it doesn't really matter about that. It's about the turret legs.
In addition, while people are quick to make note of the fact that armour is not significantly heavy, they take it too far in assuming that it's feather-light, or that it doesn't weigh you down at all. The issue is it is somewhat heavy, and it does make a difference in how fast you can move. Not majorly, but enough to be significant.
But it doesn't really matter about that. It's about the turret legs.
