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Bannerlord Full Release Date Updates
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I agree with this about some things but in a different way. There are things in the game that could have been solved easily and would work perfectly fine. But those are trying to be solved in a complex, ideal way. The result is they keep changing same thing in search of ideal every patch to end up with something mediocre. Economy, defection logic etc to give an example.
Goyyyio
Sergeant
Despite I agree the game isn't as complete as it should be, the performance improved 100% for me in this update, I've never had a fluid gameplay until this patch and I haven't experienced a bug personally either (not saying they're not out there)
Inappropriate behavior
Congrats TW. I'm looking forward to release. Thanks for the contribution of the positive posters that gave real feedback and tried to fight the good fight.
For the rest of you whiney, entitled, little cry babies. Give yourself a participation trophy for making this forum one of the most toxic forums I've ever been a part of and then ask your mom for another 50 dollars so you can ruin the support of another game. And....grow up.
For the rest of you whiney, entitled, little cry babies. Give yourself a participation trophy for making this forum one of the most toxic forums I've ever been a part of and then ask your mom for another 50 dollars so you can ruin the support of another game. And....grow up.
It's definitely more buggy than it is performance problem lately. I don't know which is a better problem to have though. lol and yea not everyone's gonna have the same set of problem. I forget which it was, but one of the older release patches was really bad, but somehow I managed to maneuver through it without any of the problems so many others were having. It's weird how that works, sometimes.
FireBlazinCandy
I just watched the release trailer again and it's nice (not) to know that it probably took one person no more than two days to record and edit the footage for it. It's also nice to see that there was nothing new showcase in it and actually left out a lot of the game mechanics proving they are not happy showcasing these features themselves. It was more "horse gallop this way and bump into men, then horse go this way and over this hill". Goes to show the level of effort and f***s they give anymore.
It was all hype it up for 10 years and release it to EA. But we will give it a month or two before we start significantly reducing the scope so they can't refund.
It was all hype it up for 10 years and release it to EA. But we will give it a month or two before we start significantly reducing the scope so they can't refund.
MariusTitus
Regular
That was a good one, haha.
I trust you are being true to your username with this excrement.
I honestly can't stop wondering... what exactly makes Bannerlord a game that needed 10yr+ in development, plus another two years in early access?
I know they restarted like twice, but that's alarming. More than a decade in development and two years in EA, and what do we actually have to account for it? AI that doesn't function right and still can't climb ladders? Constant balancing issues? Poorly implemented and largely useless features? Missing features that were promised or have been requested hundreds of times over the years? Multiplayer that still crashes all of the time? Multiplayer that no one really even enjoys because its disjointed? A lack of good modding tools?
At least with games like Star Citizen or Kingdom Come Deliverance, we can understand the enormous scope of the game and what is required. At least with that you can think "well, 10 years is understandable" even if you might think its ultimately impossible or a scam or the game wasn't your cup of tea. Because at least they are or were trying for something big, something that has never been done before. But Bannerlord? What groundbreaking things did it do? What features, or what part of this engine, needed 10+ years?
I know they restarted like twice, but that's alarming. More than a decade in development and two years in EA, and what do we actually have to account for it? AI that doesn't function right and still can't climb ladders? Constant balancing issues? Poorly implemented and largely useless features? Missing features that were promised or have been requested hundreds of times over the years? Multiplayer that still crashes all of the time? Multiplayer that no one really even enjoys because its disjointed? A lack of good modding tools?
At least with games like Star Citizen or Kingdom Come Deliverance, we can understand the enormous scope of the game and what is required. At least with that you can think "well, 10 years is understandable" even if you might think its ultimately impossible or a scam or the game wasn't your cup of tea. Because at least they are or were trying for something big, something that has never been done before. But Bannerlord? What groundbreaking things did it do? What features, or what part of this engine, needed 10+ years?
me, terco, and a bunch of other old-farts from Warband have made massive and throroughly descriptive posts over the years about exactly that list you mentioned. We'd stray here and there but that core list's basically the "everyone agrees" part of those "suggestions". None have made into the game, NONE. It's odd because the original M&B Armageddon was side-by-side with the community and kept changing and patching stuff which ultimately made it into a successful (although niche) game jewel. Warband's the culmination of that work with a important engine updated which allowed Multiplayer.These guys better get an actual game designer for their next title, becuase Bannerlord being relased in this state reflects what a game looks like without a vision.
Battle formations and AI, diplomacy, settlement management, gang system and roguery, sally-outs, quests, late-game features, unique scenes for each location, things to do in scenes, feature integration and depth etc. I would have gladly accepted a delay of a year or two to sort this out and slowly integrate the features in the game. Instead, „look, we put everything together with some duct tape. Now play”. I'm very disappointed and equally confused about future development support for the game.
Than Multiplayer community for Warband was born, these guys are the guys who have created War of the Roses, Chivalry, Mordhau, etc. But TW just gave the concurrent multiplayers the middle-finger and also dropped the ball on balancing and how the entire combat system works by changing core systems from what we had in Warband.
The SP community (that'd be where I belong almost exclusively) got half-arsed responses to only a few suggestions and feedback we gave, and it seems to be culminating into zero progress towards the vision the community had for the game. So it seems that the game's being released without true features that would make it into a unique experience. As is it's very weird, lacks any UX tailoring and there's exactly what you said, no vision and no direction. The entire Game Design is all over the place and incomplete, one of the core reasons being that there's an absolute lack of meaning towards any actions you chose to do in game, everything's meaningless, and that makes setting up objectives a billion times harder than it should. Now, we do have campaign story, which culminates into either chosing to lock-up into mid-gameplay loops by being a vassal, or moving to late-gameloops by trying to forge a new kingdom, the odd part is that the entire meta (with their questionable balancing, of which I've been thoroughly trying to criticize and explain since I got BL) sums into murder-spree lords and pump the infinite spawning wanderers as vassals to mitigate management difficulties. Done, map painted, nothing else to do, start again. For leveling, it's about spam fighting outnumbered bandits and minor factions, while quests are even more meaningless than they were in Warband because they don't give any significant boosts, neither to your toon, nor to the fief (in Warband at least we'd manage to make super-villages that would result in incomes that could surpass castles and come close to towns, now it's just a Overtime grind, and villages are basically just numbers, they have absolutely no function what-so-ever compared to castles or towns - no upgrading, no investment, no interesting uniqueness, no meaningful interactions, it's just there for us and the AI to spam recruits and make passive income based on a number). I still find some core systems to be flawed because they are ultimately utopian, towns can't handle going over a certain prosperity threshold (which can be observed quite fast in castles) and with a astonishing lack of management choices, we're stuck into gamey behavior and a lock-out of both immersion and role-play. That isn't good, can't be, because it kills way too many options we should have in a sandbox of this theme. Warband suffered from that, and where did it got us? Nobody who played the game for years stuck to the vanilla because it's too shallow, the true beacon that kept WB alive were the amazing mods, which may or may not appear in Bannerlord (remember, different generations, too many games on the market). Vanilla needed to be at least on par with Warband mods to really be considered good, as is, it's mediocre and a disappointment for us old-farts from Warband.
The solutions to remove the in-game ceiling are either fief penalties (which could be achieved by simulating a plethora of interesting interactions, like rebels etc etc), or what truly happened when medieval places became too big: they'd become towns and the population would spread out and form new villages. We could have both, we have none. At first that was the plan, and it's likely that the entire system was thought with that in mind, since it was beheaded out of the game, I don't think the system can handle optimal gameplay, the same "all towns starving to death" loop will still happen like it did when EA first got out, it just takes longer now.
I just hope it's moddable, if I grow to care too much about the game, I might do it myself (super-towns sprawling more villages, and super-villages becoming towns through their castles). Current playthrough I have sanala skyrocketing above 11k prosperity (Sanala is the most OP town in the game in case nobody noticed because it has 4 villages with food sources and a nearby castle that holds a single silver mining village, it's the ultimate fief in the game), one of Sanala's villages' well above 1100 hearts, I mean, that thing would've become a town by now realistically speaking.
The only good thing's that the engine now supports way more complex mods, though at the same time they didn't make the base-game easily moddable by not adding XML sheets to their systems, which basically means no one can fine tune the game by themselves, you gotta be a coder to do it (that's 10 steps back on accessibility to modding, while they made 50 steps forward in compatibility and engine capabilities).
Summing up I'm exceptionally disappointed, I lost admiration for TW way back in 2016, it started growing back when EA was announced, lost it again in 2020, and now depending on the state of the game by this "rushed" release, there'll be no hope left. They have only 2 paths that I'd find personally acceptable, either they release with a massive road-map of features to come - or they release with at least half of the missing features as a "surprise". Not sure either are going to happen. The flawed balancing can be handled by mods without much difficulty, and the UX was terrible in WB, so it's not like it's going to kill me for not having it being good in bannerlord.
I've openly warned everyone about the danger of having a "no deadlines" policy. Pointed it out when the first engine callback happened, pointed it out yet again when the second happened, than we started asking for an EA so the community could help them, they've delayed that for years, opened EA and ignored us all... The question to me is why did they do it? To appease the community as some sort of PR maneuver? Because the EA was ultimately useless, all constructive feedback was ignored where they've stated to have their "vision" which doesn't seem very visionary if you ask me. The second question's why ignore the community who supported them all these years? Ego? Vanity? Difficulty to implement stuff?
One thing I can't get out of my mind, though, are the in-game issues with coding that can be fixed by a single person in less than a week still being present in 1.8. That's just impressive.
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Urgent Account
Recruit
taleworlds mods mark this as inappropriate behavior for being sigma male
Yeah I kept saying having no deadlines is bad because most people are self motivated enough to do a job without a deadline. There would always be people saying but building games doesn't work like that you have to give them time. My question was how does the rest of the industry do it if they don't have deadlines? I don't want the devs to constantly have crunch time and some flexibility built in is a good thing but no deadline means you get a game that is in development for over a decade and still has bugs and is incomplete at launch.
Imho they wanted bug testers because it's pretty self evident they did no major bug testing at anytime during ea. If they did then we wouldn't keep getting the same bugs popping up time and again every other beta branch release.
Tbf they did take some criticism into account and tried to fix a few things like snowballing. But ofc they did it in the most convoluted and nonsensical way possible and ignored every suggestion by the community.
The simple fact that our priorities aren't their priorities are why they ignore us for the most part. We want a fun game that is a worthy successor to Warband they want to make money. Oh and they wanted to cram as many different types of game play into BL to make it as wide appealing as possible thereby increasing sales. Take for example giving orders during battle remember the old system we had? How many people were unhappy about it? None that I can remember. But TW wanted to change it so it was easier for controllers. They probably figured well PC players can deal with it but we have to make the game accessible to console players or they won't buy it. It's an untapped market they needed to cater to so any and all complaints or suggestions got tossed in the circular file.
What's up with the teenager rage mode mate? We have issues with this release, the game's lacking and problematic and they've failed to come through with their own goals and announcements. I won't pat them in the back, I still support them by buying their ****, doesn't mean I have to lick their feet like certain ppl.
Idk, their fixes were minor balancing, when what we're talking about is game replayability, depth, player interactions, user interface, controls, etc. All of that was fed to them since before the 2016 flop, and they've kept it a secret that the game didn't have any of those points covered, in fact their slog release of info about the game was very cryptic but some of us saw through it and were already concerned over 7 years ago...Yeah I kept saying having no deadlines is bad because most people are self motivated enough to do a job without a deadline. There would always be people saying but building games doesn't work like that you have to give them time. My question was how does the rest of the industry do it if they don't have deadlines? I don't want the devs to constantly have crunch time and some flexibility built in is a good thing but no deadline means you get a game that is in development for over a decade and still has bugs and is incomplete at launch.
Imho they wanted bug testers because it's pretty self evident they did no major bug testing at anytime during ea. If they did then we wouldn't keep getting the same bugs popping up time and again every other beta branch release.
Tbf they did take some criticism into account and tried to fix a few things like snowballing. But ofc they did it in the most convoluted and nonsensical way possible and ignored every suggestion by the community.
The simple fact that our priorities aren't their priorities are why they ignore us for the most part. We want a fun game that is a worthy successor to Warband they want to make money. Oh and they wanted to cram as many different types of game play into BL to make it as wide appealing as possible thereby increasing sales. Take for example giving orders during battle remember the old system we had? How many people were unhappy about it? None that I can remember. But TW wanted to change it so it was easier for controllers. They probably figured well PC players can deal with it but we have to make the game accessible to console players or they won't buy it. It's an untapped market they needed to cater to so any and all complaints or suggestions got tossed in the circular file.
When it comes to understanding the industry I do have a lot because I actually have a game development degree. What I don't know is how to do stuff because I've moved away from the field over a decade ago and went on to work with films, I don't have to code anything, barely have to work with any art, so my skills are plummeted to crap now-a-days. I do retain the knowledge, though, both theoretical and practical, I just don't practice nor update my skill-set. I work more as a creative than a technical guy, and the only thing I do on a computer is mostly editing, sometimes I dabble in Graphic Design to help my sister who's a Graphic Designer, and dabble on silly art editing for silly things. No more rigging an effing quadrupede and having to deal with unexplainable effing mesh ruptures, or unexplainable bugs caused by mystery bytes on a pristine code logic loop. And I'm happier for it, I hate working with softwares in general, at least 2d art and video editing carry much less machine issues than 3d or coding. What I did, however, was observe and predict a lot of things that actually did come to be true years before those happened, that's the advantage of fully understanding how development works, the disadvantage is that I was repeately flamed and attacked for doing it, luckily I couldn't care less
There are at least a dozen ppl who used to do it that eventually were on our side picking up their keyboards to try and talk sense into TW, didn't work neither.
When EA came it was no longer predictable, though, because devs often work with alpha or pre-alpha + alpha, which are builds that often have a plethora of features and details that never make the light of day into the Beta, but can show up in the full release. The thing is, some of the key features we all wanted needed thorough practical testing, and if we're not getting those in Beta, means they probably won't be in the final release at all. (EA is a form of Beta, one of which isn't meant to get patched, it's like layering the Beta testing, as for Alpha, those are the dev builds which sometimes have the most interesting things in them and endless bugs)
最后编辑:
At this point, something has to be explained and well on their part, for once. Star Citizen, a far more complicated and ambitious game, did far more in its decade of creation than Bannerlord has in the same amount of time...and isn'tt even that "complex" of a game. I understand they are not a multi-billion dollar company, but that's no excuse for the end product being the way that it is. I'm not expecting Star Citizen levels of complexity, I just don't see how over a decade gave us...Bannerlord.
well, it still could be as simple as coming down towards "made for consoles and not for PC". This industry sin has been a trend for ages now, and consoles are responsible for destroying multiple IPs quality, what makes me even more confused is the level of imbecility someone needs to actually prefer console versions of games that simply cannot run well outside a PC due to limited interface. I still am in awe with these ppl who insist on playing FPS games in consoles, mate, if a guy with KB&MOUSE touches the game and they remove your auto-aim, you're just screwed, so why on earth would you waste your money on it instead of buying it for a PC is beyond logical reasoning. To add to injury, literally, controllers have a much higher chance of causing tendinitis than KB&MOUSE, it puts your thumbs into overload and slowly destroys your tendons. It's just insane.At this point, something has to be explained and well on their part, for once. Star Citizen, a far more complicated and ambitious game, did far more in its decade of creation than Bannerlord has in the same amount of time...and isn'tt even that "complex" of a game. I understand they are not a multi-billion dollar company, but that's no excuse for the end product being the way that it is. I'm not expecting Star Citizen levels of complexity, I just don't see how over a decade gave us...Bannerlord.
At this point I think I need to team-up with Terco and start a list of things to fix and features to add, than see if I can convince myself to relearn a lot of stuff and code in the stuff we need, or at bare minimum we have a checklist for any better ppl to do it easy to check on a single thread.
As much as I love the game, I would dearly like to know what they were actually doing between 2012 and 2020.
The same thing than all of us, dealing with life...As much as I love the game, I would dearly like to know what they were actually doing between 2012 and 2020.
I'll have to remember that line the next time my manager asks me to get something done.
Your choice, but don't blame me if you lose your job...I'll have to remember that line the next time my manager asks me to get something done.
