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Askorti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WB
But the management of TW are the ones that decide what does and does not get implemented, not the developers.
If you read through the thread, you can see that everyone agrees that the devs are up for the job, and the problem lies with management not wanting to do do a better job.

There are plenty of examples where mexxico written on the forums that both his ideas and ideas of the community are getting rejected within 5 minutes by his managers.

Potato potato. He did not do anything pathetic though as he did not aim for an actual person, but rather TW itself.
You twisting his words, making it seem like he's personally attacking dev's is pathetic, especially considering it is a bold faced lie.
I did not refer to anyone but the OP, so I do not know why you talk about what other people said. That is completely and wholly irrelevant to what I and the OP said.
The things the OP said were targeting the developers, as in, people who design features that are put in the game, as well as their *ability* to make something better than mods. Not their willingness to do so, but clearly their skill.
He even reinforced this very point in his response to me, so you're completely missing the point of both what I said, and even the OP you're defending.

And I do not see how it is any better that he did not target anyone by name, when he was specific enough to say that he's talking about TW developers. If anything, it makes it worse, as that basically puts people like Mexxico in the same bag as the people he's calling incompetent.Though I assume he does not view Mexxico as such, as that would be ridiculous.
 

Stromming

Sergeant at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
Since you don't seem to grasp what he actually said, I will post it here for your convenience.
Can Taleworlds design a feature better than a mod with their 100 man company and 3 plus million sales?

The things the OP said were targeting the developers
He called out the entire company. Not a specific group of employees such as programmers or designers, or using your broader term, developers.

as well as their *ability* to make something better than mods. Not their willingness to do so, but clearly their skill.
He asked a question. This is a fair thing to do considering the state of the game. Nevertheless people majorly replied that, yes, we believe the developers are more than capable of doing it but are kept from doing so due to poor managerial decisions.

He even reinforced this very point in his response to me
Seems like logic is an issue for you. Nobody is identified specifically, and this is the name of the game and the design team making the incredibly lackluster code in the game.
The team is designing an extremely lackluster game however, so this is not something that is wrong or mean by OP. The reason why the game is lackluster is, again, due to poor managerial decisions.

Mexxico is a great example of a developer who is extremely knowledgeable and have great ideas for the game, but his ideas keep getting rejected by management.
In other words, he is part of the group "making the incredibly lackluster code in the game".
Does this mean that it's Mexxico's fault? No, and no one is saying it is. Not even OP.

And I do not see how it is any better that he did not target anyone by name, when he was specific enough to say that he's talking about TW developers
He didn't even go that far, again you are just making **** up.

that basically puts people like Mexxico in the same bag as the people he's calling incompetent.
No, it really does not. Calling out an entire development studio for creating a subpar game is not the same as calling individual developers incompetent, and the logical backflips your mind have taken to reach this conclusion is seriously astounding.
 

Askorti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WB
I find it interesting how you fail to see how he targets developers, when you yourself even quote him on talking about "the design team making the incredibly lackluster code in the game."
If this is not specific enough to exclude the management of the company, then I do not know what could possibly be.
But to back up a bit, as I guess my intentions might have not been clear enough from how I responded earlier, allow me to say this:

Let's say, hypothetically, that the OP did not single out developers/designers, and meant just the TW company as a whole, homogeneous entity. Even then I would have an issue with their post, because of how unproductive it is. No matter the merits and demerits of TW as a company, bashing them achieves nothing. You get nothing out of it, the game gets nothing out of it. By doing so everyone loses, us especially. I find this kind of thing to be just plain stupid.

I have no intention of defending TW from criticism. I don't give a flying pickle about that. What I have a problem is that posts like this only make the forum a worse place for everyone to visit. I would love to see more criticism of the game itself, its flaws, its unfinished state etc. because that actually has some worth as a topic of conversation and discussion. But focusing on TW as a company doesn't do anyone any good. Unless of course we're here just to circlejerk about how TW is bad, but I feel like we've been doing this on this forum for quite a while now, and it's high time to move on, as no amount of moaning about their practices will change anything.
 

Stromming

Sergeant at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
I find this kind of thing to be just plain stupid.
That's fair to think. However he is well in his rights to complain all he wants, and if we don't want to participate in it, we can just not participate in it.
Let's not go down so far as to start policing each other on what kind of topics we are and are not allowed to post.
 

vito397

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
I find it interesting how you fail to see how he targets developers, when you yourself even quote him on talking about "the design team making the incredibly lackluster code in the game."
If this is not specific enough to exclude the management of the company, then I do not know what could possibly be.
But to back up a bit, as I guess my intentions might have not been clear enough from how I responded earlier, allow me to say this:

Let's say, hypothetically, that the OP did not single out developers/designers, and meant just the TW company as a whole, homogeneous entity. Even then I would have an issue with their post, because of how unproductive it is. No matter the merits and demerits of TW as a company, bashing them achieves nothing. You get nothing out of it, the game gets nothing out of it. By doing so everyone loses, us especially. I find this kind of thing to be just plain stupid.

I have no intention of defending TW from criticism. I don't give a flying pickle about that. What I have a problem is that posts like this only make the forum a worse place for everyone to visit. I would love to see more criticism of the game itself, its flaws, its unfinished state etc. because that actually has some worth as a topic of conversation and discussion. But focusing on TW as a company doesn't do anyone any good. Unless of course we're here just to circlejerk about how TW is bad, but I feel like we've been doing this on this forum for quite a while now, and it's high time to move on, as no amount of moaning about their practices will change anything.
Askorti, i know your intentions are good but i dont think you understand op's post, or any other criticism from people here aimed at designers. Now correct me if im wrong, but it seems you think that when we say "design/designing/design makers" that we refer to people who implement the design, as in ones who design through code (as a verb). This would be a regular employee. By design decisions we refer to it as a noun, as in we criticise the more abstract conceptualisation of what the game should or should not include, how deep the features should be etc. This lies entirely in the management sector and is not in any way comparable to an average tw programmer. When you criticise a country, everybody understands you mean the government, not the people.

If i got it wrong, please correct me
 
Askorti, I know you mean well, and I can agree that such described topics can be unhealthy for the forum, but I think you are too quick on the draw.

They have every right to talk about the things that bother them. You also have every right to not reply to these threads, especially when they're not even targetting anyone directly.
 

Askorti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WB
Askorti, i know your intentions are good but i dont think you understand op's post, or any other criticism from people here aimed at designers. Now correct me if im wrong, but it seems you think that when we say "design/designing/design makers" that we refer to people who implement the design, as in ones who design through code (as a verb). This would be a regular employee. By design decisions we refer to it as a noun, as in we criticise the more abstract conceptualisation of what the game should or should not include, how deep the features should be etc. This lies entirely in the management sector and is not in any way comparable to an average tw programmer. When you criticise a country, everybody understands you mean the government, not the people.

If i got it wrong, please correct me
Given that the OP himself even elaborated about the code being lackluster as a result of the designers' work, I think it was fair for me to assume he was not talking about the managerial side of things given that, as far as I'm aware, managers are not directly responsible for the code.

That's fair to think. However he is well in his rights to complain all he wants, and if we don't want to participate in it, we can just not participate in it.
Let's not go down so far as to start policing each other on what kind of topics we are and are not allowed to post.
I do not intent to tell the OP that he cannot start a thread like this. However, I think it is within my right to voice an opinion that I find such threads to be harmful. Especially since I felt like (I could be completely wrong here, it was just a feeling born from passive browsing of the forum) it was not the first topic in this vein that I saw from the OP.
 

vito397

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
Given that the OP himself even elaborated about the code being lackluster as a result of the designers' work, I think it was fair for me to assume he was not talking about the managerial side of things given that, as far as I'm aware, managers are not directly responsible for the code.
Hm I see your point
 
Given that the OP himself even elaborated about the code being lackluster as a result of the designers' work, I think it was fair for me to assume he was not talking about the managerial side of things given that, as far as I'm aware, managers are not directly responsible for the code.


I do not intent to tell the OP that he cannot start a thread like this. However, I think it is within my right to voice an opinion that I find such threads to be harmful. Especially since I felt like (I could be completely wrong here, it was just a feeling born from passive browsing of the forum) it was not the first topic in this vein that I saw from the OP.
Harmful? I find it my right to voice that I don't care how you feel or respond to any of the other BS you wrote.
 
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HumanCancer

Regular
I get that you're salty dude, but can you give it a break with the dev bashing? Bash the game all you want, it sure as hell deserves it and more, but putting your aim on actual people is just pathetic
Only pathetic one here is you, imagine still writing essays to defend TW and anyone that works there.
 

Calabanar

Sergeant
So, 1.6.0 release has failed the challenge, better luck next time. Still no new major content.
It depends on what you expected from it.

The modding support has been vastly improved, so although it might be on the thinner side content-wise for players, that doesn't make it a bad patchie.
 
It depends on what you expected from it.

The modding support has been vastly improved, so although it might be on the thinner side content-wise for players, that doesn't make it a bad patchie.
Modding support is not something I expected with this patch, I am however happy that they have made "some" adjustments. But the game is still remarkably shallow and they have done nothing to address this.
 
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